716 replies to this topic

[Serpieri]

Johnny Z, on 21 March 2015 - 09:19 PM, said:

Ya its funny a ERPPC 30 damage heavy got whined about then nerfed, when the Clans field a CERPPC 30 damage light and say its weak. Strange.

You forget to point out the damage is splash and the Adder didn't have the TDR9S Quirks.

[Johnny Z]

Serpieri, on 21 March 2015 - 09:35 PM, said:

You forget to point out the damage is splash and the Adder didn't have the TDR9S Quirks.

I also didnt mention the Adder is at least twice as hard to hit and is way faster. I did mention it was a light mech though.

Yes I realize Clan players wont be happy until their 30 damage CERPPC light is as good as the Inner Sphere 30 damage ERPPC heavy. Thats some idea of balance. Quite well known.

The Adders CERPPC's have longer range also do they not? The quirks I forgot to mention made the range almost equal or?

Edited by Johnny Z, 21 March 2015 - 09:45 PM.

[Serpieri]

Johnny Z, on 21 March 2015 - 09:41 PM, said:

I also didnt mention the Adder is at least twice as hard to hit and is way faster. I did mention it was a light mech though.

Yes I realize Clan players wont be happy until their 30 damage CERPPC light is as good as the Inner Sphere 30 damage ERPPC heavy. Thats some idea of balance. Quite well known.

The Adders CERPPC's have longer range also do they not? The quirks I forgot to mention made the range almost equal or?

Twice as hard to hit really - have you seen how big and slow the Adder is compared to an IS Light? And lets not forget its low mounts.

Hate to break it to you but several IS players pointed out how powerful the TDR9S was compared to the Awesome - A mech that was designed to be a PPC platform unlike the thunderbolt who was slinging lighting bolts almost non stop.

Edited by Serpieri, 21 March 2015 - 10:04 PM.

[Nayru]

I just want to point out that you are trying to compare the adder to the pre-nerf thunderbolt.

Or one of the worst mechs (arguable that is the worst clan mech) to one of the best mechs.

Carry on.

[ThrashInc]

Well he's trolling, lol.

Anyone who comes into a topic talking about 15 damage C-ERPPC's is trolling or ignorant.

[Johnny Z]

Nayru, on 21 March 2015 - 10:17 PM, said:

I just want to point out that you are trying to compare the adder to the pre-nerf thunderbolt.

Or one of the worst mechs (arguable that is the worst clan mech) to one of the best mechs.

Carry on.

I wasnt trying to compare what is considered the worste Omni mech to what was considered the best Inner Sphere mech, I did compare the two.

ThrashInc, on 21 March 2015 - 10:27 PM, said:

Well he's trolling, lol.

Anyone who comes into a topic talking about 15 damage C-ERPPC's is trolling or ignorant.

Your going to pretend the CERPPC doesnt do 15 damage now? I bet the range isnt as good as the 10 damage ERPPC either. Tell me, how do Clan players do math? This will be good Im sure.

You guys arent even trying any more are you?

[Wrathful Scythe]

Johnny Z, on 21 March 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

Your going to pretend the CERPPC doesnt do 15 damage now? I bet the range isnt as good as the 10 damage ERPPC either. Tell me, how do Clan players do math? This will be good Im sure.

You guys arent even trying any more are you?

You know this already so this explanation is for those who don't:

The CERPPC does 12.5 to 15 dmg depending on what you hit. If you hit the ST you do 10 dmg to the ST and 2,5 on the neighboring components on the left and right. If you hit the left arm you do 10 dmg to the left arm and 2,5 to the left ST. The other 2.5 dmg just vanishes into nothing. Practically it's 10 dmg because the 2.5 dmg don't help destroying the component you are targeting. Saying that we have 15 damage ERPPCs is misleading.

PPCs are in a good place for both sides.

Edited by Wrathful Scythe, 22 March 2015 - 12:21 AM.

[EvilCow]

My idea of balance-related changes:

For IS:
1) SL heat at 1, ML heat at 3, remove heat-related quirks for them on all mechs.
2) PPC speed equal to ERPPC, remove the 90mt hard limit, make it linear like it was originally.
3) Introduce LFEs, MRMs etc.
4) Cap all quirks to 25%, add more quirks if required but do not concentrate it all on a single parameter.

For Clans:
1) Unlock ES/FF but without dynamic allocation, once enabled ES/FF would take fixed slots like now, this can used to prevent certain configurations, for example by placing their crits in the middle of a section in the DW.
2) XL engine changes as planned (20% speed reduction).
3) Do not nerf TW and SC.

General:
1) ECM rework (weaker, should not prevent lock, just slow it down).
2) AMS rework, make it stronger to balance ECM change. Make it more effective vs SSRMs.
3) Remove the SPEED TWEAK on all mechs, mechs would start at -5% maximum speed and with experience the pilot would become able to fully use the mech capabilities reaching the maximum rated speed.

In my opinion this would be sufficient for a substantial balance.

Edited by EvilCow, 22 March 2015 - 12:11 AM.

[Pjwned]

DaveKell, on 21 March 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

Just a weird question.......
Aren't clan mechs suppose to be better than IS mechs? If you do the math IS has more mechs vs clans better equipment.
star 5 mechs , binary 2 stars 10 mechs , cluster 3 binary 30 mechs.
lance 4 mechs company 12 mechs, battalion 36 mechs.
this is the basics with out areospace or elements added.
If CW IS vs clan was 12 vs 10 I think it would be better, like clans only get 3 drop mechs to the IS 4.

12v10 has been brought up before and it's not happening because it would be a hassle to implement and that's not how PGI promised that clans would be balanced.

Quote

But nerf the reason people want to own clan mechs is stupid, I have and paid for my clan packs if they nerf do I get a refund? Hell no!

Literally just cry a river, don't spend money on mechs if nerfs would ruin it for you, especially in the case of something like clan mechs.

EvilCow, on 22 March 2015 - 12:07 AM, said:

My idea of balance-related changes:

For IS:
1) SL heat at 1, ML heat at 3, remove heat-related quirks for them on all mechs.
2) PPC speed equal to ERPPC, remove the 90mt hard limit, make it linear like it was originally.
3) Introduce LFEs, MRMs etc.
4) Cap all quirks to 25%, add more quirks if required but do not concentrate it all on a single parameter.

For Clans:
1) Unlock ES/FF but without dynamic allocation, once enabled ES/FF would take fixed slots like now, this can used to prevent certain configurations, for example by placing their crits in the middle of a section in the DW.
2) XL engine changes as planned (20% speed reduction).
3) Do not nerf TW and SC.

General:
1) ECM rework (weaker, should not prevent lock, just slow it down).
2) AMS rework, make it stronger to balance ECM change. Make it more effective vs SSRMs.
3) Remove the SPEED TWEAK on all mechs, mechs would start at -5% maximum speed and with experience the pilot would become able to fully use the mech capabilities reaching the maximum rated speed.

In my opinion this would be sufficient for a substantial balance.

Most of that sounds pretty good, though I don't really want to see the LFE introduced.

Edited by Pjwned, 22 March 2015 - 12:35 AM.

[EvilCow]

Ozealot, on 22 March 2015 - 12:41 AM, said:

Our opinions are different.

I am quite glad my opinion differs from someone liking his own posts.

Edited by EvilCow, 22 March 2015 - 01:10 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Whats wrong about them? I like my Cerppcs Ok i did liked my ISERPpc before quarkination either.

[Pjwned]

Ozealot, on 21 March 2015 - 03:06 PM, said:

Maybe you should play the game before trying to come up with a proper argument.

That is the most pathetic non-argument I've ever seen, congrats.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ozealot, on 21 March 2015 - 03:06 PM, said:

Maybe you should play the game before trying to come up with a proper argument.

Pjwned, on 22 March 2015 - 03:28 AM, said:

That is the most pathetic non-argument I've ever seen, congrats.

Maybe he needs to learn teh names of the folks playing the game Pjwned.

[EAP10]

I would like to not touch clan engines at all, but just slightly Nerf the stellar clan chassis. If we Nerf all clan engines we also Nerf the useless clan mechs more than they already are. Myst lynx lose a st? A lightly armoured mech is reduced to 50 kph and dies instantly. A gargoyle loses a st and dies instantly due to speed reduction and low armour. This is not the way to go. Some Is mechs can rip apart a lot of clan mechs in seconds. For example: a dragon 1n vs a direwolf. In three seconds the dire's ct armour is gone.


(I'm also surprised that clans might get a nerf after the wave three preorder shenanigans, which blew up on the forums as well.)

Choose wisely PGI, I'm already not spending any more money on this game.

Edited by EAP10, 22 March 2015 - 08:19 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

EAP10, on 22 March 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

I would like to not touch clan engines at all, but just slightly Nerf the stellar clan chassis. If we Nerf all clan engines we also Nerf the useless clan mechs more than they already are. Myst lynx lose a st? A lightly armoured mech is reduced to 50 kph and dies instantly. A gargoyle loses a st and dies instantly due to speed reduction and low armour. This is not the way to go. Some Is mechs can rip apart a lot of clan mechs in seconds. For example: a dragon 1n vs a direwolf. In three seconds the dire's ct armour is gone.


(I'm also surprised that clans might get a nerf after the wave three preorder shenanigans, which blew up on the forums as well.)

Choose wisely PGI, I'm already not spending any more money on this game.

And again with the molehills/mountains thing, Mist Lynx losing a ST with the proposed speed drop would go from 113kph PRE-Speed Tweak down to 90kph, not 50kph. After Speed Tweak that same Mist Lynx will drop from 124kph to 99kph, OMG, THAT'S SO SLOW, I'M GOING TO DIE IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, I lose a leg on my Clan Mechs and I'm able to keep on fighting, and I'm just a slightly above average player, so you mean to tell me that the PROs will all DIE when they have a speed decrease of far less than being legged, WITHOUT the stunlock losing a legs gives? Here's the answer to THAT problem, stop thinking you are good when you actually aren't and it's just the toys you are using that make you look good.

Or maybe learn what a 20% speed drop actually IS instead of making up numbers because you actually don't have a freaking clue how the game works.

I'm good with either solution, so pick one and stop the hysteria and scare mongering. It's REAL hard to debate whether or not the change will be of any use when the people against it are so full of surat feces.

[EAP10]

Kristov Kerensky, on 22 March 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

And again with the molehills/mountains thing, Mist Lynx losing a ST with the proposed speed drop would go from 113kph PRE-Speed Tweak down to 90kph, not 50kph. After Speed Tweak that same Mist Lynx will drop from 124kph to 99kph, OMG, THAT'S SO SLOW, I'M GOING TO DIE IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, I lose a leg on my Clan Mechs and I'm able to keep on fighting, and I'm just a slightly above average player, so you mean to tell me that the PROs will all DIE when they have a speed decrease of far less than being legged, WITHOUT the stunlock losing a legs gives? Here's the answer to THAT problem, stop thinking you are good when you actually aren't and it's just the toys you are using that make you look good.

Or maybe learn what a 20% speed drop actually IS instead of making up numbers because you actually don't have a freaking clue how the game works.

I'm good with either solution, so pick one and stop the hysteria and scare mongering. It's REAL hard to debate whether or not the change will be of any use when the people against it are so full of surat feces.

Oh, I thought it was a 50% reduction. No need to get all dramatic.

[Karl Streiger]

Well instead of the speed reduction they can drop the heatcapacity of another 10points and add a constant heat of 1 HPS.

Fact its no nerf - like dropping the heat quirks for the Thunderbolt was no nerf.
Its a correction, or an addition.
There should never have been the invulnerability of Clan Xl

[Kristov Kerensky]

EAP10, on 22 March 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

Oh, I thought it was a 50% reduction. No need to get all dramatic.

You THOUGHT...there's post after post with the information, but you THOUGHT it was 50% because..reasons?


Actually, you probably got the idea it was 50% because of the bs being spewed by Gyrok and his crew, Gyrok, who threatend to take all 100 of his team away from MWO, despite his team's entire active roster being 37 people according to their team website. Gyrok who claims a 90% win ratio in CW, who declares that Clan toys are NOT OP, they get beaten all the time by IS Mechs. Gyrok who swears up and down that this speed loss will be instant death for him and his. Gyrok, who's team doesn't USE the Mist Lynx or Kit Fox or Ice Ferret or Summoner or Gargoyle or Warhawk to begin with, they use the Trinity and some Hellbringers, top comp team after all, they don't use anything BUT the very top toys regardless of side. Gyrok who claims the best teams are now going IS, despite -MS- still being Clan faction, -MS- who only play with THE most OP toys in the game and switch sides the moment balance shifts.

We get it, some people paid good money for their Clan toys and they THOUGHT they were getting P2W stuff, so anything that degrades that, well, that's total BS! Problem is, they aren't P2W, and they'll be balanced so they aren't too OP, they'll still be OP, just not as much, after all, Clans do have better toys overall. Simple solution if you thought you were getting P2W toys and just NOW discovered that's not how MWO works, stop playing. There's plenty of P2W games out there, this ain't one of them.

[EAP10]

Kristov Kerensky, on 22 March 2015 - 08:51 AM, said:

You THOUGHT...there's post after post with the information, but you THOUGHT it was 50% because..reasons?


Actually, you probably got the idea it was 50% because of the bs being spewed by Gyrok and his crew, Gyrok, who threatend to take all 100 of his team away from MWO, despite his team's entire active roster being 37 people according to their team website. Gyrok who claims a 90% win ratio in CW, who declares that Clan toys are NOT OP, they get beaten all the time by IS Mechs. Gyrok who swears up and down that this speed loss will be instant death for him and his. Gyrok, who's team doesn't USE the Mist Lynx or Kit Fox or Ice Ferret or Summoner or Gargoyle or Warhawk to begin with, they use the Trinity and some Hellbringers, top comp team after all, they don't use anything BUT the very top toys regardless of side. Gyrok who claims the best teams are now going IS, despite -MS- still being Clan faction, -MS- who only play with THE most OP toys in the game and switch sides the moment balance shifts.

We get it, some people paid good money for their Clan toys and they THOUGHT they were getting P2W stuff, so anything that degrades that, well, that's total BS! Problem is, they aren't P2W, and they'll be balanced so they aren't too OP, they'll still be OP, just not as much, after all, Clans do have better toys overall. Simple solution if you thought you were getting P2W toys and just NOW discovered that's not how MWO works, stop playing. There's plenty of P2W games out there, this ain't one of them.

Sorry... Just misunderstood what was going on... No need to be the defender of nerfs...

[LordKnightFandragon]

MEh, put game ranges at 1x......its the x2 ranges tht makes the clans seem so OP. being shot at 1500m while the best the IS can do is like 800m......

BUt 1x range, ISML is 270, CERML is 405, gap is alot smaller then.
When the IS get the ERML, the gap would be even closer yet.

ISERLL: 625? CERLL: 740.