264 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 March 2015 - 02:29 AM, said:

I'd hate it too but it is the proper consequence for engine damage.

Yes but high heat gave you a movement penalty. For most mechs a -1mp penalty was a 20-25% drop.

Since heat doesn't do that in mwo indirectly reflecting that in side torso destruction works.

Edited by MischiefSC, 18 March 2015 - 05:46 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

MischiefSC, on 18 March 2015 - 05:45 AM, said:

Yes but high heat gave you a movement penalty. For most mechs a -1mp penalty was a 20-25% drop.

Since heat doesn't do that in mwo indirectly reflecting that in side torso destruction works.

Yes High heat does not, the actual engine hit. You can work around that heat to stay at full speed.

[Willard Phule]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 March 2015 - 05:48 AM, said:

Yes High heat does not, the actual engine hit. You can work around that heat to stay at full speed.

Shame PGI can't wrap their heads around that, huh?

[RussianWolf]

Kristov Kerensky, on 17 March 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

Lily from animove, it's funny, but you had a Clan Wolf tag just a little bit ago....hmmm. See, I guess you weren't locked in there, as you said, you are free to change factions and unless you actually PLAY as a Clan player, you will change factions, often going to whichever side has the most perceived power, little thing that some players do, we've got entire teams that do it in MWO, switching from Clan to IS back to Clan in CW, depending on how the 'balance' is working after any given patch. I'm sure you've seen it too....

My unit changes back and forth every week or so from Clan to IS. Its not based on perceived advantage, we just want to be able to play all our mechs in CW (well, they do, I stick to the public queues).

I've yet to see anyone in this game PLAY as a clanner. Day one of clan release when the Clan mechs were ALL OP (better weapons across the board, better engines, etc. The KitFox was ruling the light class and even the Summoner was better than most IS Heavies) And how did people PLAY with them. Focused fire a single target into oblivion and move to next. That isn't Clan. So the players brought this on themselves as far as I'm concerned,

I've called out clans in CW when it first started and challenged them to a 1v1 duel. response "QQ more". That's not clan. That's wanna-bes.

When they put in penalties for clan players not playing as a clanner should, then we'll see if anything changes. But I'm not holding my breath. We have not clanners here, just some supped up mechs.

[Lily from animove]

DavidHurricane, on 18 March 2015 - 05:19 AM, said:

You have a choice to use or not to use Clans. If you chose to use them, you get the good, the bad and the ugly.

wow, tahst the entire sense why balance is done, because there should not only be good ones on the field and bad ones should turn into at least decet ones.

nehebkau, on 18 March 2015 - 05:38 AM, said:

So what 10 tons worth of weapons are you going to drop for your shiny new Standard Engine? That's what everyone who is extolling the virtues of the standard engine are forgetting.... Standard engines means lower alphas, less ammo, fewer weapons.

dead mechs don't make damage, its not always all about max damage, and max ammo.

RussianWolf, on 18 March 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

I've yet to see anyone in this game PLAY as a clanner. Day one of clan release when the Clan mechs were ALL OP (better weapons across the board, better engines, etc. The KitFox was ruling the light class and even the Summoner was better than most IS Heavies) And how did people PLAY with them. Focused fire a single target into oblivion and move to next. That isn't Clan. So the players brought this on themselves as far as I'm concerned,

Uhhm summoner was better most IS heavies? not really. lol.
And kfx was most dominant because a clanlight with XL, while the adder hardly had any advantage, so it was he only clanlight beign achoice. That soon went down again as people realised that this speed in a light is just nonsense.

look at the chassis challange, this rflects very well what the best pilots in the related chassis were able to pull. Now see that most IS mechs got buffs, and clans some nerfs. But look also which clans have not gotten any buffs or negliable ons.

Now a nerf in to across the clanboard? half the clanmechs have currently no use in competitive area. Now some more nerfs and soon the rest follows.

left will be what?

DWF, TBR, HBR, SCR. maybe the ACH and EBJ may joing this club.


but DEF is too heavy in CW to be a common sight.

so yes only these few mechs will stay after this balance.

[RussianWolf]

Lily from animove, on 18 March 2015 - 06:16 AM, said:

wow, tahst the entire sense why balance is done, because there should not only be good ones on the field and bad ones should turn into at least decet ones.



dead mechs don't make damage, its not always all about max damage, and max ammo.



Uhhm summoner was better most IS heavies? not really. lol.
And kfx was most dominant because a clanlight with XL, while the adder hardly had any advantage, so it was he only clanlight beign achoice. That soon went down again as people realised that this speed in a light is just nonsense.

look at the chassis challange, this rflects very well what the best pilots in the related chassis were able to pull. Now see that most IS mechs got buffs, and clans some nerfs. But look also which clans have not gotten any buffs or negliable ons.

Now a nerf in to across the clanboard? half the clanmechs have currently no use in competitive area. Now some more nerfs and soon the rest follows.

left will be what?

DWF, TBR, HBR, SCR. maybe the ACH and EBJ may joing this club.


but DEF is too heavy in CW to be a common sight.

so yes only these few mechs will stay after this balance.

I was specifically talking about at introduction.


So No nerfs had been done and no quirks had been implemented. Speed wasn't an issue for the clan lights as they would load out ERLL and ERPPC and you couldn't get in range of them before they took you apart (The Kitfox with ECM is still mainly used in this way and is still a challenge).

At intro, Summoner was the worst clan mech and still effective against IS heavies. Better than most IS heavies from my experience. And I hadn't even fully elited them at the time (still not fully elited).


As far as how many competitive builds there are.... 3/4s of the IS mechs were useless in competition before the clans were introduced. The competitive players will always flow to the mechs that have the best hit boxes, loadouts, and now quirks. Its what they do. Anything else is non-competitive and junk. If you had engine flexibility in clan mechs that wouldn't change the fact that 1/2 of them would still be considered non-competitive because others would simply be better in terms of... hit boxes, load outs, and quirks. It may add one or two to the list and demote others, but the general percentages wouldn't change much.

This is why I'm not a competitive player. I like seeing variety, and I like playing variety. I have nearly 200 mechs and I play them all depending on my mood. All my pre-resistance IS mechs are mastered. And I mastered them the hard way (not using GXP). I've played every crap mech this game has.

[Lily from animove]

RussianWolf, on 18 March 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

I was specifically talking about at introduction.


So No nerfs had been done and no quirks had been implemented. Speed wasn't an issue for the clan lights as they would load out ERLL and ERPPC and you couldn't get in range of them before they took you apart (The Kitfox with ECM is still mainly used in this way and is still a challenge).

At intro, Summoner was the worst clan mech and still effective against IS heavies. Better than most IS heavies from my experience. And I hadn't even fully elited them at the time (still not fully elited).

wait you want to tell me with all the features a map has a FS9 with short lasers was not able to grab on a 2PPC adder because that adder took him apart before? or a kitfox? LOL
The kitfox is a challange? For who?

sry but this thread starts to get amusing seeing what some players see as a challange.

Adder and kfx were at the beginning not even closely any kind of threat, vs some IS lights there were on par, like the commando or locust. But they have not gotten any buffs allt he time, until recently. any time somethign was buffed, they just got worse and worse on the overall picture.

And see you have 200 mechs and play them on your mood, that makes you able to to use the mechs properly, but not able to know their potential. because this potential of a mech is what you experice after maybe 100 or even 200 matches when you have tested a LOT different builds for many many games.

[Mcgral18]

RussianWolf, on 18 March 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

The KitFox was ruling the light class

[RussianWolf]

Lily from animove, on 18 March 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

wait you want to tell me with all the features a map has a FS9 with short lasers was not able to grab on a 2PPC adder because that adder took him apart before? or a kitfox? LOL
The kitfox is a challange? For who?

sry but this thread starts to get amusing seeing what some players see as a challange.

Adder and kfx were at the beginning not even closely any kind of threat, vs some IS lights there were on par, like the commando or locust. But they have not gotten any buffs allt he time, until recently. any time somethign was buffed, they just got worse and worse on the overall picture.

And see you have 200 mechs and play them on your mood, that makes you able to to use the mechs properly, but not able to know their potential. because this potential of a mech is what you experice after maybe 100 or even 200 matches when you have tested a LOT different builds for many many games.

I recall them sitting at long range and taking legs off other mechs, protecting their heavies and assaults. The only weapon that could match them on range was the Gauss. Speed wasn't a factor as they were sniping legs.

Sorry, for me, this is a game about enjoyment. Competitive playing is not what I'm into because that involves stressing about the best way to run something. I'm here for fun. And actually, no I don't need to run a mech 100-200 times to find the best build. I just ask. Let others do the work of figuring out that stuff. That's if I cared.

But the fact remains, Clan players brought this on themselves.

[TheSilken]

PGI doesn't seem to understand that you can't pick and choose different rules from the TT and then only apply them to a minority group. Either go all the way with the rule or don't touch it at all. This whole loss of a Side Torso thing would make sense IF they added in "Through Armor Criticals" (where weapons that do an excessive amount of damage, AC-20 for example, have a chance to crit through the armor). In TT taking damage to your engine caused increased heat, slower speed, and (once you took 3 crits) death. This is why the IS XL Engines cause death when a ST is lost and why Clan XL Engines cause death when both STs are lost. But if you are going to use this Engine Crit rule then use the entirety of the rule and apply criticals to Standard Engines. Standard Engines in TT were immensely safer to run but could still be critted even with armor protecting them which is what made the penalties for taking Engine crits fair. These Canadians don't seem to understand balancing at all. You can't just pick and choose parts of rules to make a minority group suffer while the rest go unchanged.

Edit: I wish Living Legends was still around so I could have given that a try. Then again, maybe it's better that I didn't get to see it.

Edited by TheSilken, 18 March 2015 - 08:17 AM.

[RussianWolf]

If either of you want to 1v1 tonight in an IS light vs me in a kitfox... I'm more than game.

McGral, you should know that I'm more than willing to do this. Remember the Orions vs Twolf matches we ran with MisChief?

[Metus regem]

RussianWolf, on 18 March 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

If either of you want to 1v1 tonight in an IS light vs me in a kitfox... I'm more than game.

McGral, you should know that I'm more than willing to do this. Remember the Orions vs Twolf matches we ran with MisChief?

1V1 doesn't prove anything about the mechs, it proves pilot skill....

In CW last night I sent three Storm Crows running with a freaking Pirate's Bane, that I forgot to take out of my drop deck, all I had to do was run around like a mad man, and pick them apart till they (the pilots) broke and ran.

[Mcgral18]

RussianWolf, on 18 March 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

If either of you want to 1v1 tonight in an IS light vs me in a kitfox... I'm more than game.

McGral, you should know that I'm more than willing to do this. Remember the Orions vs Twolf matches we ran with MisChief?

I do.

Doesn't seem fair to the Cute Fox, though. I've got a few days of Premium left.

[Karl Streiger]

Maybe they want to bring critical hits - Heck development is a progress - they can take everything online or don't apply Patches and get all the stuff on the road.

And given the Option to live test Engine criticals on Is or Clans i would choose Clans too - not a question of preferences but impact.

And i think all that stuff to prevent the Rock from rolling is funny.
You would give Is LFE, or even remove the deathsentence of Is Xl Mechs - just to keep that tiny additional speed.

You know what you short minded Clan bags i hope PGI will follow your wishes - and give your TotterDogs the Option to get a Std Engine - would be fun to see your tears again, when you realized that you lost your edge for 8kph

[RussianWolf]

Metus regem, on 18 March 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

1V1 doesn't prove anything about the mechs, it proves pilot skill....

In CW last night I sent three Storm Crows running with a freaking Pirate's Bane, that I forgot to take out of my drop deck, all I had to do was run around like a mad man, and pick them apart till they (the pilots) broke and ran.

Yeah I used a PB last week with my unit. They did the heavy lifting but left me and a Jenner with 5 or 6 enemies (including a fresh Raven) at the end. I ran clean up crew and wound up with 5 kills, including that Raven and we won. Its an effective little critter when run right. (Balls to the Wall)

[Mcgral18]

Karl Streiger, on 18 March 2015 - 08:27 AM, said:

Maybe they want to bring critical hits - Heck development is a progress - they can take everything online or don't apply Patches and get all the stuff on the road.

And given the Option to live test Engine criticals on Is or Clans i would choose Clans too - not a question of preferences but impact.

And i think all that stuff to prevent the Rock from rolling is funny.
You would give Is LFE, or even remove the deathsentence of Is Xl Mechs - just to keep that tiny additional speed.

You know what you short minded Clan bags i hope PGI will follow your wishes - and give your TotterDogs the Option to get a Std Engine - would be fun to see your tears again, when you realized that you lost your edge for 8kph

Now, what about the other 53% of the Clam robots, which aren't competitive NOW, after many blanket nerfs, are hit by yet another.


If this nerf comes in, the construction rules will have to be lifted. No more bad robots because of Ferro instead of Endo; or just straight up nothing.

[Metus regem]

RussianWolf, on 18 March 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

Yeah I used a PB last week with my unit. They did the heavy lifting but left me and a Jenner with 5 or 6 enemies (including a fresh Raven) at the end. I ran clean up crew and wound up with 5 kills, including that Raven and we won. Its an effective little critter when run right. (Balls to the Wall)

As are all Locusts... still love my 1V the most though, love that ER-LPL because of quirks....

[Voivode]

LOLZ at the clanner tears.

"But...but...I was promised easy wins!"

[Lily from animove]

RussianWolf, on 18 March 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

I recall them sitting at long range and taking legs off other mechs, protecting their heavies and assaults. The only weapon that could match them on range was the Gauss. Speed wasn't a factor as they were sniping legs.

Sorry, for me, this is a game about enjoyment. Competitive playing is not what I'm into because that involves stressing about the best way to run something. I'm here for fun. And actually, no I don't need to run a mech 100-200 times to find the best build. I just ask. Let others do the work of figuring out that stuff. That's if I cared.

But the fact remains, Clan players brought this on themselves.

so all good clanplayers should go IS now, own your little butts and the remaining clanplayer ones until clans get buffed? what logic is that? How is this ever achiveing any fun gameplay by balance?

I really should safe soem money for a stalker, and a dragon. easy mode mechs with ownage guarantee, given you know how to play some high mopinted hardpoints, or a doomfist.

Mcgral18, on 18 March 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

I do.

Doesn't seem fair to the Cute Fox, though. I've got a few days of Premium left.

can you please record this? We need the reuslts for science and also the gameplay, becaue many is players seem not to be able to play their mechs properly.

Voivode, on 18 March 2015 - 08:48 AM, said:

LOLZ at the clanner tears.

"But...but...I was promised easy wins!"

yeah IS whined all the time until they got the opps nerfed, better should have invested that water and salt into some sweat in your cockpit to improve your skills.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 March 2015 - 09:07 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Voivode, on 18 March 2015 - 08:48 AM, said:

LOLZ at the clanner tears.

"But...but...I was promised easy wins!"

Ignoring the fact that 53% of Clam mechs are Terribad I see.

Oh, but 15% are easy mode...

PLZ BLANKET NERF THEM ALL!1!!

Edited by Mcgral18, 18 March 2015 - 09:05 AM.