309 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

So, finally have gotten some time, and a semi stable connection (atm) to play, so I decided, as befits my surname, that I should grind some ZEUS action.

Being a tad space poor, my builds are more "hungarian goulash" than Meta, so as I go along, I'm sure I'll refine things.

On the positive so far? My hitboxes seem fine, very XL friendly, no obvious hitboxes of death. CT seems ok, and haven't been headshot. So far, so good. And thanks to armor buffs, and decent speed and mobility, it seems a very tough little nut.

On the negative? Not really in love with the Hardpoints. The Waist level weapons I am used to, so no biggy there. No, it's more about the lack of them, particularly, the arms. The 6S and 9S in particular, I just feel the RA is largely wasted space. The only thing remotely useful to do with a single Missile Hardpoint on a mech over 35 tons or so, is to slap a single LRM15 or 20 into it, and well, LRMs are of varying use, especially with only a single launcher. SRMs? Truly pointless. Possibly if we had an MRM40 in game, it would be useful. I also feel the 6T could really benefit from a second Energy HArdpoint in the LA. That is mostly for convergence, just would like at least 2 lasers or ppcs hitting together, give it more of an Assault mech punch.

I also dislike the low trajectory of the missile in the RA. With full articulation, you should be able to shoot over hills a lot easier.

Also, I find it a little hot, in most builds. Just feels weird that 2AC5 and 4 MPL should be riding my heat that fast.

So:
PROS:
-Good Hitboxes
-Good Speed and Mobility
-Tough

CONS:
-Needs 2nd Missile Hardpoint on 2 variants
-Runs a little hot
-Waist high weaponry.

Any particular builds or insight from those who have used them more?

Bishop's ZEU-6S



*All results and impressions may change as I unlock Skills and refine builds, and YMMV.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 March 2015 - 04:58 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Hot because you're not running doubled basics yet?

What engine are you running?

[Otto Cannon]

One thing I'll say for the arm launcher is that you can fire around the side of buildings without torso exposure instead of having an easy time firing over the top of hills. I think two missile hardpoints in the arm would make a huge difference to the Zeus, but I can't see it happening unfortunately.

I agree with your points generally. I find it quite fun to play once you get used to firing around rather than over.

[Jackofallpots]

I just slapped 3 LPLs and 3 MLs on the 9S with double heatsinks crammed in where I could and didn't do too badly with it, completely ignoring the missile hardpoint but not I'm a lrm guy

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 21 March 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

Hot because you're not running doubled basics yet?

What engine are you running?

340 and 350 XLs so far. What I had in stock. Am considering making the 6T a lot faster, and slapping in triple aSRM6, just wish I had a second LA hardpoint to slap in paired LPL there. Never been a huge fan of single energy points in the arms of Assaults...they always look so lonely, lol.

As for DHS, the 2x AC5 guy has 15 DHS, (if I leave the RA empty) and the 9S has 22 (though I expect it to be a little hot being so energy focused)

[TheMadTypist]

Hmm. I've been unimpressed so far, but I've only been playing the -6S. It has the same sort of issue as the dragon in that it has hardpoints for all three weapons families and doesn't really have enough of any one type. I imagine the -9S has less of that issue, and the -6T looks great, but I haven't even outfitted them with double heat sinks yet so they won't be dropping any time soon.

I dropped the engine to a size 310, and have been trying out 3ML, 1PPC, 1AC10 (3t), and 1 LRM15 (2t). I've got DHS and Endo for upgrades. The 20pt punch from the cannons is alright, but the arm ballistic feels so far from the cockpit, I have a hard time using it well. I also make the mistake of forgetting about the LRM, mostly because the high amount of ECM running around means locks are rare and most launches just wind up punishing the local soil. The heavy focus on the left torso is another issue for me, everybody knows it's the weakness and I don't think I've gotten through any serious engagements without at least getting knocked down to structure. Blocking with the right torso doesn't seem to help very much, except against LRMs, folks don't seem to have any trouble picking their hit location.

At this point returning to my -8Q is a good cooldown, because playing it feels so much simpler. I hope elite-ing (eliting?) the chassis changes that.

EDIT: and one minor note I find funny. The -9S was originally slated to be the resistance variant, as it was the 'clanbuster', but people got upset and the -6S took its place. I think the -9S will be the better performing of the two though, and the one that gets the most use, so we kinda screwed ourselves there. On the plus side, I can stick the Steiner camo on it.

Edited by TheMadTypist, 21 March 2015 - 08:04 AM.

[El Bandito]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 March 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

Also, I find it a little hot, in most builds. Just feels weird that 2AC5 and 4 MPL should be riding my heat that fast.

If that's all you have then you really shouldn't be overheating too much. In Smurfy it has 50% heat efficiency, plenty enough.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 March 2015 - 08:04 AM.

[PurpleNinja]

I'm loving all 3 of then.

6S® - 390XL (79 Kph no speed tweak) - 2 AC5 (180 shots) - 4 Medium Lasers
Lots of long range dakka plus laser support when close range, too hot when brawling, but has decent speed to go hide and cool off.

6T - 390XL (79 Kph no speed tweak) - 3 SRM6+Artemis - 4 Medium Lasers
Pure brawling, 58 points of alpha damage, enough speed to catch most medium mechs and also to circle around whales and crabs.

9S (my favourite) - 390XL (79 Kph no speed tweak) - 3 ER Large Lasers - 3 Medium Lasers - 21 Double Heat Sinks
Assault class sniper with medium laser support for brawling, 21 double heat sinks helps a lot when you need to kill annoying lights at close range. Also, excellent speed to switch sniping spots and keep up with the team.

They also have awesome faction camos for the non resistance variants. Way prettier than clan faction camos.

[Otto Cannon]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 March 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

340 and 350 XLs so far. What I had in stock. Am considering making the 6T a lot faster, and slapping in triple aSRM6, just wish I had a second LA hardpoint to slap in paired LPL there. Never been a huge fan of single energy points in the arms of Assaults...they always look so lonely, lol.

As for DHS, the 2x AC5 guy has 15 DHS, (if I leave the RA empty) and the 9S has 22 (though I expect it to be a little hot being so energy focused)

I ran the 6T with a STD300, which may sound horribly slow but I had loads lying around unused and it does last longer brawling. You can lose the RT and still have all your wub, or lose the left and still have your nightmare fist of doom. Using seismic to plan your ambush moment you can be a very nasty surprise for someone.

[Ultimax]

I'll just repost from the other thread.

Ultimatum X, on 21 March 2015 - 05:53 AM, said:

Some food for thought on the Zeus:

1) All Zeus get an extra +17 ARMOR on their legs. This means you can shave 17 points of armor and still have the equivalent of maximum 80 ton mech leg armor.

2) I consider the Right Arm irrelevant on both the 9S & 6S. It also has +13 ARMOR on all variants. You can shave down to 20 from 52 armor, have the equivalent of 33 armor there, and pick up a spare ton to utilize.


This is my XL Version Template and this is my STD Engine template.

I keep more on the Arm to cushion the right side XL ST, and because the XL savings are generally enough for both builds.

I find one missile hardpoint to hinder my builds rather than help it.

Better to ignore that RA on the two variants and just shave for tonnage - which will be useful for the 6S & 6T as they have a lot of hardpoints to support on the left side.


The 6T on the other hand with 3x Missle hardpoints, I will definitely be stuffing 3x ASRM 4 or 6s into there.



The main thing is you can get some tonnage shavings by using the +armor quirks as "phantom tonnage" and shaving those bonus amounts off.

You end up with some extra tonnage to use, and no less sturdy than an 80T mech would be.


Or you keep the bonus and make something tankier with less firepower.



I find the STD engine builds to be a bit underwhelming on firepower, but pretty survivable.

I find the HUGE XL builds some people seem to be running (380+) to be odd, there is a legion of players complaining about the Gargoyle and then we have people stuffing similar sized engines with a bigger weakness on the Zeus.


As far as builds go, I'm still experimenting.

The 6T looks the most appealing to me, it will likely let me run a 325 STD engine with a lot of energy and good hardpoints.

The 6S with 2x AC5s almost forces you into an XL build, and forces you to play at range a bit more. I think there are better mechs for that.

You sadly can't get an AC 20 in there, leaving you with the mediocre firepower of the AC 10 or trying to snipe with a Gauss rifle mounted at your waist.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Super ultra mega bonus: Zeus ® has fins. They're subtle, but they're there. Gogo Zeus-X homage!

I runs STD engines with all three of mine and they're beefy as all get out.

I run, in no particular order, without bothering to list variants, the following (as far as I can remember them):

1 - PPC, 3x SRM4, 3x ML.

2 - 2x AC5, 4x MPL.

3 - 3x ERLL, 3x ML.

Each one is deadly, though each one also has its own areas of superior performance. They're universally rugged, even the slowest is faster than the typical most-heavy (which sit around 50-60 kph typically), and they punch quite hard.

[Gattsus]

I love the massive right arm, 18' ***** looking that it has when 6x6srm are equipped.

[Wintersdark]

I'm pretty interested in:
ZEU-6T Medium to close range brawler
ZEU-9S Yes; it's technically laser vomit, but this *is* a laser vomit mech. That's what it does. Drop the LRM's, go for full on shield side. It can fire the 3 LPL's all day long, using the 3ML's (which synergise fairly well with the LPL's) to push up spike damage when needed. LPL cooldown and ML range mods and it's all gravy.
ZEU-6SDefinitely not an "optimal" loadout, but these sorts of close-range fighters with solid long range firepower really work for me.

[DaZur]

DaZur, on 21 March 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

I "think" I found my sweet spot with the 6s...

I, like a lot of folks kept focusing around that damn ballistic weapon as the primary, leaving the torso energy slots and the right arm to try and compliment around it.

In this configuration it was a decent ranged striker but really struggled to accrue damage and equally struggled to net "kills". It is particularly vulnerable up close to fast mediums and lights.

What I'm running now:

300 XL, 3 x ER-lLas, + aLRM-10 + LBX10.

In this configuration my primary weapon is the trip ER-lLas fired in alpha. LRMs are essentially ranged opportunity weapon and or a harasser. The Key is the LBX... The LBX gives the -6S a potent short / medium range weapon.

In this configuration I can reach out and tickle with the LRMs, kick you at range with trip ER-lLas and punch you in the face with the LBX up close.

It's highly unconventional but I've had the best luck with the -6S in this configuration, allowing to average 300+ damage (versus sub 200) and at least 2 kills.

Next up is the -6T... I've got ideas for him as well.

That -6S? That ones presently an enigma....

Edited by DaZur, 21 March 2015 - 08:21 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

TheMadTypist, on 21 March 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

EDIT: and one minor note I find funny. The -9S was originally slated to be the resistance variant, as it was the 'clanbuster', but people got upset and the -6S took its place. I think the -9S will be the better performing of the two though, and the one that gets the most use, so we kinda screwed ourselves there. On the plus side, I can stick the Steiner camo on it.

I still think the ballistics variant will be fine. Just need better quirks to keep up with the Quirkageddon Arms race. I dropped the dual5 for an ac10 and just saw my avg dmg jump by 100-150.

El Bandito, on 21 March 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

If that's all you have then you really shouldn't be overheating too much. In Smurfy it has 50% heat efficiency, plenty enough.

Hence my surprise at how fast I was riding the heat scale......?

Ultimatum X, on 21 March 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

I'll just repost from the other thread.





I find one missile hardpoint to hinder my builds rather than help it.

Better to ignore that RA on the two variants and just shave for tonnage - which will be useful for the 6S & 6T as they have a lot of hardpoints to support on the left side.


The 6T on the other hand with 3x Missle hardpoints, I will definitely be stuffing 3x ASRM 4 or 6s into there.



The main thing is you can get some tonnage shavings by using the +armor quirks as "phantom tonnage" and shaving those bonus amounts off.

You end up with some extra tonnage to use, and no less sturdy than an 80T mech would be.


Or you keep the bonus and make something tankier with less firepower.



I find the STD engine builds to be a bit underwhelming on firepower, but pretty survivable.

I find the HUGE XL builds some people seem to be running (380+) to be odd, there is a legion of players complaining about the Gargoyle and then we have people stuffing similar sized engines with a bigger weakness on the Zeus.


As far as builds go, I'm still experimenting.

The 6T looks the most appealing to me, it will likely let me run a 325 STD engine with a lot of energy and good hardpoints.

The 6S with 2x AC5s almost forces you into an XL build, and forces you to play at range a bit more. I think there are better mechs for that.

You sadly can't get an AC 20 in there, leaving you with the mediocre firepower of the AC 10 or trying to snipe with a Gauss rifle mounted at your waist.

Dunno about the size, but since I take a heck of a beating before finally getting cored out, seems silly to leave the XL at home, so far.

[Ultimax]

Wintersdark, on 21 March 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

I'm pretty interested in:
ZEU-6T Medium to close range brawler
ZEU-9S Yes; it's technically laser vomit, but this *is* a laser vomit mech. That's what it does. Drop the LRM's, go for full on shield side. It can fire the 3 LPL's all day long, using the 3ML's (which synergise fairly well with the LPL's) to push up spike damage when needed. LPL cooldown and ML range mods and it's all gravy.
ZEU-6SDefinitely not an "optimal" loadout, but these sorts of close-range fighters with solid long range firepower really work for me.

I highly recommend you do not shave cockpits down so low, I find the cockpit of this mech easy to view due to it's design.

If you are already shaving from a shield arm, just shave more from there first. It's a dead arm, it's only use is to be ablative.


I always shave from ablative locations before critical areas like legs and cockpits.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 21 March 2015 - 08:43 AM.

[TheSilken]

Don't overlook the extremely small size of the Zeus. I feel so bad for the Victor and Gargoyle everytime I see a Zeus.

[Wintersdark]

Ultimatum X, on 21 March 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

I find the STD engine builds to be a bit underwhelming on firepower, but pretty survivable.

I find the HUGE XL builds some people seem to be running (380+) to be odd, there is a legion of players complaining about the Gargoyle and then we have people stuffing similar sized engines with a bigger weakness on the Zeus.

I'm very, very strongly of the belief that >350 rated engines are just bad. Bad. If you want a mech to go that fast, get out of the assault category and do it with a smaller engine. KPH per Ton, using XL's on a Zeus:

Rating KPH/T KPH Pod Space
390 2.9 86.9 27
375 3.15 83.5 30.5
350 3.55 78 35
325 3.81 72.4 38
300 4.3 66.8 41.5
275 4.38 63.8 43
255 4.54 56.8 44.5


So, yeah... Larger engines are just a tremendous waste of tonnage, as a lighter mech could bring more guns at that speed with more agility. The little bit more armor you get going to an 80t chassis isn't worth spending all that on inefficient engine. It's funny, though, how the sweet spot is around 300 rated; after 325 you pay so much more for so little speed it's shocking, and below 300 the curve tapers off so much that you don't gain enough pod space to be worth the low, low speeds.

Going from a 325XL to a 390XL, for example, costs you 11 tons of pod space, and gains you 14.5kph (tweaked). 11 tons of pod space is a hell of a lot of weaponry/cooling, and 72.4 kph while not blistering is a good speed for an assault. The key point, though, is that the 390XL's 86.9kph is definitely quite fast for an assault, but only "for an assault" - it's not particularly fast overall.

Edited by Wintersdark, 21 March 2015 - 08:45 AM.

[Ultimax]

Wintersdark, on 21 March 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

I'm very, very strongly of the belief that >350 rated engines are just bad. Bad. If you want a mech to go that fast, get out of the assault category and do it with a smaller engine. KPH per Ton, using XL's on a Zeus:

Rating KPH/T KPH Pod Space
390 2.9 86.9 27
375 3.15 83.5 30.5
350 3.55 78 35
325 3.81 72.4 38
300 4.3 66.8 41.5
275 4.38 63.8 43
255 4.54 56.8 44.5


So, yeah... Larger engines are just a tremendous waste of tonnage, as a lighter mech could bring more guns at that speed with more agility. The little bit more armor you get going to an 80t chassis isn't worth spending all that on inefficient engine. It's funny, though, how the sweet spot is around 300 rated; after 325 you pay so much more for so little speed it's shocking, and below 300 the curve tapers off so much that you don't gain enough pod space to be worth the low, low speeds.

I agree.


Generally speaking the higher ratings are often taken for the added torso twist speeds, but I'm not convinced that I want to run an XL short range brawl build on an 80 ton assault mech that is basically shaped like a rectangle.


Long range on the other hand is a different story.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 21 March 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

I agree.


Generally speaking the higher ratings are often taken for the added torso twist speeds, but I'm not convinced that I want to run an XL short range brawl build on an 80 ton assault mech that is basically shaped like a rectangle.


Long range on the other hand is a different story.

I am finding it works very well as a (mostly) short range XL brawl build. Switched to 340XL, LRM15, AC10 and 4MPL, and am having a blast.