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Cw Being Ruined...


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#21 Jakob Knight

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 07:56 PM

View PostCzarr, on 28 March 2015 - 07:13 PM, said:

Yea man, no one plays CW anymore. Thier is only like 129 or so people who play it. I would say 98% of MWO players play Deathmatch cause unlike CW Deathmatch is actually fun I don't have to wait 20 mins just to be target practice for a 12 man trolls


Uhhh..yeah. I suppose that's why, on one faction alone, multiple planets had 180+ players -a piece- at any one time. Sounds a -bit- more than 129....

As for the idea that 12-mans are 'ruining' CW, I hate to break it to the people who think that, but 12-mans are what CW is -for-. CW is intended as the part of the game for full established teams fighting to achieve objectives beyond just smashing each other to scrap. If anything, it is the PUG players, with their inability to fight as a team and unwillingness to participate as part of a Unit that are 'ruining' CW by entering into an area and then working against what the whole point of it is, then coming onto the forums to complain that they can't have battles where they can do their own thing without joining a Unit. If you really don't want to work as part of a full team, then the door to Public is over there. Use it and welcome to that side of the game.

Lastly, people who say CW needs objectives need to realize it -has- objectives, and people are complaining that using tactics that concentrate on achieving those objectives are the problem with CW. To these people, tailoring your force and tactics to the objective instead of grind fighting are 'exploiting bugs', 'unfun', 'cheese', and other terms to describe a battle that doesn't conform to their expectations of a Public queue game with different maps. Well, here you go. You have objectives, and players can't handle them. Those that can scratch their heads and wonder why teamwork, tactics, and a focus on getting the job done besides simple mech sock-em fighting is so difficult for some people, or why people who find such combat environments 'unfun' choose to enter the part of the game they know will be all about that.

CW does not have the distinction of being the 'hard mode/RP' side of MWO without reason. And it isn't the only way to play MWO (for now). If you like Public side style, then off you go. That's why it's there. If you are ever ready for CW, nothing will stop you from coming back but your own decision to not work as part of a team in the part of the game where teamwork is supremely important by design and intent.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 28 March 2015 - 08:01 PM.


#22 -Vompo-

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 09:52 PM

There is absolutely nothing preventing players from joining units or dropping with a group. I'm sure someone will come up with some excuse why he/she cannot join a group.

"I don't have a mic"
Get one or just listen what the group lead tells the team to do

"I don't have the time"
You don't have the time then how can you play in the first place

"I prefer to play alone"
Then why play a game mode which is created from the start for groups when there is a game mode created for solo players in mind?

I'm sure somebody can come up with more of these...

#23 Crosell

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 10:58 PM

^ while I agree its more group oriented they need to have more ways to help those to group up. The minority are forums goers so finding a group can be harder for those that dont. having a mode thats hard core only isnt really overly productive.

#24 PerfectDuck

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 11:36 PM

I'm Perfect Duck, and I'm in ]NS[. Ever since Beta, we knew we were going to be a unit that focused on CW. We trained and practiced on a weekly basis, figuring out formations and tactics, builds and honing in our aim and awareness skills so that we'd be ready to hit the ground running on the release of CW. We knew that the game wouldn't end with pointless PUG games that have no consequences beyond the scoreboard at the end. We wanted to change the universe through our actions. We knew it wouldn't be easy, in fact we were counting on it being hard. We knew we wouldn't have to simply master ourselves as individuals but master our whole as a cohesive, cooperative, hive-minded entity in brotherhood so that our varied strengths cover over our various weaknesses. We knew we would have to do anything it took to gain an edge, to make ourselves better, even playing in a different way from how the story books romanticized how 'mech combat ought to be. Long-Range Missiles? We gave them an honest chance, we really wanted them to work, but we ultimately decided we can do more without them. It's a shame. That's what it is to be competitive.

I haven't dropped in public 12-man queue in months, beyond trying to idly level up some new mechs I've bought with C-bills. All I've been doing is CW. I'm loving every bit of it and I'm having a great time with all of the people I play with, both within my Night's Scorn unit as well as with whoever I end up together with on the House Kurita organized TeamSpeak server. I don't get too upset when I lose, in fact it really gives me a lot to think about.

A lot of the people in this thread seem to have said the problem themselves out of their own mouths without really realizing it. The bad presumption here is that the developers need to make CW for everyone, when it obviously isn't for everyone. Meta mechs too good? Use them yourself. Tactics too good? Use them yourself. Premade groups too good? Join one yourself. Stop deluding yourselves about a world where you can win without trying. That isn't how it ought to be nor is it possible to create.

#25 ArchSight

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 11:37 PM

View PostVompoVompatti, on 28 March 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

Then why play a game mode which is created from the start for groups when there is a game mode created for solo players in mind?

Answer's
The event that is only in CW.
Curiosity to see and try out what it's like.
There isn't a solo player game mode.

All game modes are designed for 12 v 12. They still have to play in a team vs another team. No matter if they're silently following the majority into a death ball or following a drop commander's orders. The only difference is having a match maker that tries to match up player's skill with a elo rating while CW doesn't have an elo match maker.

It's not a choice of playing solo because player's have to work with a team if they want to have any chance at winning. It's a choice of how many higher skilled player's you want to face at a time.

There isn't a single player game mode, There isn't a 4 v 4 game mode and certainly there isn't a game mode that successfully split's up a whole teams focus for one player vs another player action to win the game. All current game modes are who has the largest mob of mechs, wins. There isn't any solo play.

The game will be far better off if it had game modes that were designed for solo playing. This game has more solo player's then groups and whole 12 premade teams. If the game wants to be successful it should have single player or game modes that cause player's to fight alone. :ph34r:

#26 Novawrecker

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 12:06 AM

View Postmadhermit, on 28 March 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

Don't hate the players, hate the game.

View PostTelmasa, on 28 March 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

I choose to hate both


Haters gunna hate, but seriously, lay off on the
Posted Image

View PostArchSight, on 28 March 2015 - 11:37 PM, said:

Answers
There isn't a solo player game mode.


And in a game based principally on Team vs. Teams, there shouldn't be a "solo player mode". This is MWO, where you play with 11 other people per drop. This isn't Pokemon on your DS.

#27 Blue Shadow

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 01:21 AM

I think the gates need lasers above them so when a light tries to jump over it get melted instantly, that would help slow a light rush and give defenders more time to counter them.

#28 sycocys

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 01:33 AM

Well the main thing is if the pugs would take the 2 seconds to listen to the tactics of veteran players their matches would go 500% better.

The funny part about it is that all the guys that do put that little bit of effort in, learn some tactics and teamwork then see how much better it works will take that back to standard drops and start crushing the pugs that refuse to do so.

So coming, refusing to learn the mode because it requires thought and teamwork, then going back and hoping that standard is going to be better is actually not going to pay off for them after this event. I actually look forward to standard drops in a couple of weeks because there is going to be a lot more teamwork and communication happening on the field.

#29 Koshirou

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 01:50 AM

View PostKyp Durron, on 28 March 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

It doesn't track with the Battletech universe that you can run around in a bunch of lights and roflstomp the entire enemy force.

MWO as a whole doesn't track with the BattleTech universe (not that the way invasions are supposed to work in the BattleTech universe ever made sense to begin with.) Canon is clearly very much irrelevant to TPTB and is only used to fill the gaps in their own ideas about how things should work.

That said...

View PostChapeL, on 28 March 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

CW needs objectives, ressources/buildings/starports to capture and leverage advantages of. The maps need to be BIGGER and teams spawned in different locations APART from one another with time sensitive objectives to realistically take or defend within reasonable reach of said spawns so people can't just deathball to victory. What we have right now is just dropship mode and it got boring after one week back in 2014... surprised it took some peopel this long to notice.

Agreed on all counts. The simplistic "first shoot three things, then shoot one thing" mode isn't going to cut it in the long run. Tactically, regular conquest mode offers more possibilities than that. (And why the regular game modes were not incorporated into CW, I'll never understand...)

#30 Chef Kerensky

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 02:01 AM

View PostKyp Durron, on 28 March 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

"Is this the way it always goes?"


Did you tell him, "yes?"

Not sure what planet you're from where pugs aren't always getting farmed in CW. Clearly not one on the Kurita border, ha ha ha.

#31 ArchSight

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 02:04 AM

View PostNovawrecker, on 29 March 2015 - 12:06 AM, said:

And in a game based principally on Team vs. Teams, there shouldn't be a "solo player mode". This is MWO, where you play with 11 other people per drop. This isn't Pokemon on your DS.


That's game boy. :angry: lol

Game based principally on team vs team. OMG, it has to be all about team vs team because a person said so. Now explain to me why there shouldn't be a solo player mode when there is a market out there for it?

I looked back at all the old version's of mechwarrior. All of them had single player and mechwarrior4 has solaris a free for all deathmatch. The deathmatch was even weight class specific. Why not deathmatch? Hell, why not invent a new online game mode that has solo play in it?

Games don't have to be hard locked into playing the same scenario every time. They can be team based. They can be solo player based. They can be one vs all. They can be solo player focused with real time strategic assets and be on a team. It's just changing the games rules to fit the different experiences that the game designer is trying to create.

Don't tell me the player base can't handle anymore new game modes. The community can afford removing a few game modes that exist because they play similarly the same as each other. Assault is 12v12 team attrition with a base per side to capture that has turrets but instead of assaulting the base's the two teams kill each other off before reaching them. Conquest has 5 resource gathering points that can be captured to get to a winning score of 750 but instead teams kill each other off and then secure the points. Skirmish is just team attrition where two teams kill each other off. There isn't much of a difference between those game modes on how to win. All of them use the same death ball tactic for killing mechs. Even the organized premades use death balls. The game play is laughable stale because their isn't much of a change in it's game modes. CW's invasion game mode was more of a change with 4 drops and a base to attack from different directions but it can end in 2mins and has spawn killing that can prevent a player from playing it out. Although, it still has death balls. :lol: lol

#32 xMintaka

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 02:31 AM

View PostKyp Durron, on 28 March 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

This weekend I was playing CW when we experienced multiple 12 mans, including the all light/all assault combos, among others.

After being in several rounds of this, I noticed comments from some of the guys who were playing CW for their first times saying things like "I think I'll just opt out of this CW thing" and "Is this the way it always goes?"

This just isn't working as intended right now. It doesn't track with the Battletech universe that you can run around in a bunch of lights and roflstomp the entire enemy force. On no less than 4 of my 10 matches today, we had the light rush essentially win, then pull back so that they could farm us for the next 20 minutes. Also ran into a 12 man that did a complete Stalker set, etc etc.

I don't have a problem with people playing in groups. I recognise that it's a good part of the game, but let's be clear. 12 man groups clearing house, and we all know they do, isn't conducive to people enjoying themselves. Not everyone has patience to play a mode where the rounds are up to half an hour, the queues are longer, and occasionally you'll load a match and know right off the bat you're going to get wiped out.

PGI needs to implement some sort of changes. Something to avoid the light rush in the opening waves, and perhaps limiting groups to less than 12 in CW, or placing larger groups into a different queue. When a 12 man goes up against a team of all pubs, it's a slaughter.

Slaughtering noobs may be enjoyable to some, personally it doesn't hold much interest for me, but I would hope we'd all be rational enough to agree that it isn't real healthy long term for CW. Every time you get someone who decides CW isn't for them, you're reducing the player base.


I've played 10 CW matches this weekend, pugging all of them. Every single one I made my 80 points.

There was one drop where we got farmed on Cybertron by -SA- but hey what can you do against an 8 man as pugs. I dont play in NA prime time, so it might be different there but imho CW really isn't so bad as a pug especially if someone has a vague plan.

Or maybe it's just because clan pugs suck more than IS pugs?

#33 Livewyr

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 03:08 AM

IS AC20 turrets... that'll show them little light rushers.

#34 Johnny Z

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 03:34 AM

This topic is totally relevant. Lots of balance issues with star map modes. This is beta and it is to be expected. It really is in beta lol.

4 v 4 is already a for sure thing thats on the way fairly soon.
A new map is coming in just a few days. Looks awsome with green fields and stuff.
100% chance things will change for how the star map game modes are balanced in at least some ways.

Again this is beta, do the challenge, maybe rank up a little as a head start for when it finally does get closer to leaving beta and is playable and more feature complete. Other than that chill out and have fun and consider any tough parts in game a way to practice your piloting skills.

Oh and theres another whole layer being added to the star map called logistics or something.

One last thing, this is officially hard core mode, expect to be facing the best players in the game with the best gear. Lots of newbies in trial mechs, but they dont last long, although in theory they could beat the geared players they wont because they are noobs. :) If you see a player in an unpainted trial mech doing well, he or she isnt new, its an alt. :)

Regular queue is much more forgiving.

Edited by Johnny Z, 29 March 2015 - 03:45 AM.


#35 Isegrimm

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 04:04 AM

CW wasn't really funny as a lonely PUG. I joined the Tamar-Jägers 2 weeks ago. Now i have the most fun i ever had with MWO. I just had to be willing to search and join a Unit, no strings attached... I just was to lacy before.

So join a unit, start using teamwork and tactics and reap the rewards, or stop complaining about people who do.

#36 Peter2k

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 04:10 AM

don't know what everyone complains about
there is no ELO or any kind of matching, only what people think can be useful
if you think there are too many lights, bring more clan streaks
been running into a lot of C-Streak boats in matches


overall good fights this weekend, and damn CSJ can wreak havoc



if anything its too easy to camp at a drop side and nearly insta kill reinforcements

View PostBlue Shadow, on 29 March 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:

I think the gates need lasers above them so when a light tries to jump over it get melted instantly, that would help slow a light rush and give defenders more time to counter them.

then you would just have a sacrifice run and jump up first
like a DS drawing the attention, the lights jump over unbothered

maybe rather protect the objectives with some additional streak turrets, -> no threat to bigger mechs/long range, but it'll might damage even loads of lights fast enough for the defenders to kill them off

still, only saw one light rush in 15 drops, and it failed fast

View PostVompoVompatti, on 28 March 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

There is absolutely nothing preventing players from joining units or dropping with a group. I'm sure someone will come up with some excuse why he/she cannot join a group.


totally agree
I didn't want to in the beginning, but at some point i didn't want to lose every single match
so I grouped up
that was before matches where actually matched in any kind of way (one que, no ELO, no restrictions, no comms)
its easier now, just need to play as a group, not trying to be a hero
in 4vs4 people can go back to being more selfish I guess

if someone is fed up losing why not just find a group you like
no need for a mic either
hell, teaming up is as easy as asking a group in the ingame chat to befriend them and pick them up
sometimes we pick up FRR loners without being on TS

View PostIsegrimm, on 29 March 2015 - 04:04 AM, said:

CW wasn't really funny as a lonely PUG. I joined the Tamar-Jägers 2 weeks ago. Now i have the most fun i ever had with MWO. I just had to be willing to search and join a Unit, no strings attached... I just was to lacy before.

So join a unit, start using teamwork and tactics and reap the rewards, or stop complaining about people who do.


actually I dropped 2 matches as a pug, still was fun, worked together with the 8 mans, and used ingame comms to rely information

#37 -Vompo-

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 04:37 AM

No need to start splitting hairs... There is a solo queue where you join without a group. Sure you play with a team but you join without one. Solo queue is there for players who wish to drop without a group. Group queue is there so solo players don't have to fight groups and then we have CW.
The reply my previous text got sounded like CW should be changes to better suit pugs because there is a weekend challenge. That is just silly. Sure CW could be made suit pugs better but these changes should not hurt organized groups. The name of the game should be teamwork.

#38 Sjorpha

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 04:41 AM

View PostPerfectDuck, on 28 March 2015 - 11:36 PM, said:

A lot of the people in this thread seem to have said the problem themselves out of their own mouths without really realizing it. The bad presumption here is that the developers need to make CW for everyone, when it obviously isn't for everyone. Meta mechs too good? Use them yourself. Tactics too good? Use them yourself. Premade groups too good? Join one yourself. Stop deluding yourselves about a world where you can win without trying. That isn't how it ought to be nor is it possible to create.


I agree with most of your post, and I embrace mostly the same attitude. But from a business perspective i think they really do need to make "CW for everyone". Maybe not in the sense of compromising the team focus in planetary conquest, that would be a damn shame, but "everyone" needs a complete game within an immersive universe for this game to thrive.

The public queues can't be considered adequate for casuals or roleplayers, the logical strategy if those groups are to be retained is working a place for them into CW. (small missions, PVE missions, some kind of character building etc). As Russ said in the town hall, the CW map is a storytelling device as well as a gameplay framework.

#39 Charon DOC Stock

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 05:53 AM

The good thing to do is to transform CW into a STOCK CW where people have freely access to a stock version of all the mech they own in their mechlab.

With no weapon/structure/armor quirks, no weapons module, and no ghost heat mechanic.
This mean no more meta, minmax, mechlab win.

Players will have to compose their dropdeck with a BV2.0 restriction and not a tonnage one.
A bonus for the attacker to balance with the turrets on the defender side,
or different setup of turret choosed by the game engine to equilibrate the fight.

And some building or dropship with which you can interact (and maybe destroy) to refill ammo.

(bad english, sorry)

#40 xWiredx

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 06:01 AM

Shocking. Another thread talking about pug teams getting stomped by 12-man groups.

I almost always run solo. I sometimes (very infrequently) drop with a group of anywhere between 3 and 10 people, but in all situations the way to become the winning team is to communicate and play as a team. That is not impossible as a group of pugs, in fact it is not much harder than it is as part of an organized group. I definitely have more wins in CW than losses and the vast majority of my teams (all but like 3) were solo drops.

Some groups are really hardcore and play to win. Those are the people with no lives who would call me a 'filthy casual'. They are rude and there is nothing you can do except play your best while they shove their "we practice for hours every week, exploit the meta as hard as we can, and have a playbook as extensive as a Superbowl-winning NFL team" mentality in your face. These types of people are in every game, so if you complain here be prepared to complain everywhere else, too.





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