558 replies to this topic

[MahKraah]

doc shmol, have you ever played is stock mechs vs clan stock mechs??

to balance this you would need to make the matches 6 clan vs 12 is
90% of the is stockmechs are unplayable
dont look at the trial mechs, they are already tweaked (to a older meta)

single heatsinks , shutting down when firing single mediumlaser continiously, practicaly no armor on jagers, single ton of ammo for 2 launchers, a wild mix of weapons without any synergy= beeing undergunned at all ranges.
stock mechs are so terrible that pgi CREATED the champions to not scare away everyone who trys the game, thats how terrible most of the stock mechs play.

compared to the is the clans have usable builds as stock, not great but at least playable

[Red Legs Greaves]

A unit mate of mine and I drop pug most of the time and when someone offers a TS address we get on it. Here's two examples of how pugging in CW can work.

The first and right example is we get in the Dav Hub after we get a mix group of people with units and lonewolves. 9 or 10 of us get in the teamspeak and we figure out how we're going to play it. Everyone plays for the team and we end up upsetting a 12man who should by all rights stomped us.This is the good side of pugging, now here's the bad.

The bad example is we get in a match and announce that we're in the Dav hub if anyone wants to join us. Only a four man unit joins us in TS. No one even tries to get any idea of plan going and we end up dying behind the gate getting shot at by a pug group who has basically the same composition as us. The four man who joined us has no idea what it is doing and gets snarky when I tried to get some direction going. And please don't ever bring four LRM boats in the first wave attacking. Actually never bring them at all and don't ***** to me because i'm not holding locks.

Pugging can be a good time and it's up to you as the pug to make it that way. Every faction has a teamspeak hub with people looking for matches, use it. Listen to what veteran players are saying, they know what they are doing. And use common sense, there is a reason no one brings LRMs to CW. If it worked other people would be doing it. Not saying you have to go full meta but at least make an effort to think about what you are bringing and how it can help the team. The resources are out there.

Edited by Red Legs Greaves, 29 March 2015 - 06:44 AM.

[eSeifer]

Light rushes can be stopped and good teams have proven it.

Get into a team or clan and stop filling the forums up with your tears.

PS. Die Clanner

[Charon DOC Stock]

MahKraah, on 29 March 2015 - 06:23 AM, said:

doc shmol, have you ever played is stock mechs vs clan stock mechs??

to balance this you would need to make the matches 6 clan vs 12 is
90% of the is stockmechs are unplayable
dont look at the trial mechs, they are already tweaked (to a older meta)

single heatsinks , shutting down when firing single mediumlaser continiously, practicaly no armor on jagers, single ton of ammo for 2 launchers, a wild mix of weapons without any synergy= beeing undergunned at all ranges.
stock mechs are so terrible that pgi CREATED the champions to not scare away everyone who trys the game, thats how terrible most of the stock mechs play.

compared to the is the clans have usable builds as stock, not great but at least playable

Yes i have played tech 1 stock versus clan stock several times.
And this was a lot of fun and a very satisfying experience of piloting.

Of course we have balanced the match with the number of players.
And i think this is the way to do in my vision of stock CW.
Player will not have necessairly to embark 4 mech in the dropship
If a player wants to drive his 2700 points DireWolf, that will certainly be the only mech he will bring on the battlefield.
And we both know that if he plays well he will be able to fight during all the match.

Stock need more practicing, but it is playable.

Players tend to transform this mech simulation game into a easy mode fps.

"single heatsinks , shutting down when firing single mediumlaser continiously, practicaly no armor on jagers, single ton of ammo for 2 launchers, a wild mix of weapons without any synergy= beeing undergunned at all ranges."

That's whats make this game different, and good in my opinion.

Edited by Doc Shmol, 29 March 2015 - 06:58 AM.

[oldradagast]

Kyp Durron, on 28 March 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

I don't have a problem with people playing in groups. I recognise that it's a good part of the game, but let's be clear. 12 man groups clearing house, and we all know they do, isn't conducive to people enjoying themselves. Not everyone has patience to play a mode where the rounds are up to half an hour, the queues are longer, and occasionally you'll load a match and know right off the bat you're going to get wiped out.

PGI needs to implement some sort of changes. Something to avoid the light rush in the opening waves, and perhaps limiting groups to less than 12 in CW, or placing larger groups into a different queue. When a 12 man goes up against a team of all pubs, it's a slaughter.

Slaughtering noobs may be enjoyable to some, personally it doesn't hold much interest for me, but I would hope we'd all be rational enough to agree that it isn't real healthy long term for CW. Every time you get someone who decides CW isn't for them, you're reducing the player base.

You're completely correct, but I gave up this fight months ago after wasting time trying to drill facts into the heads of certain people around here that a game mode that is full of free wins for groups and no attempt to balance opponents based on skill or experience is simply boring and idiotic. Imagine a CW-NFL where you can have pro teams on one side and a couple dozen people picked out of the stands at random playing against them. That would be stupid, insane, and wouldn't last more than 2 weeks as as "sport," and yet that is exactly what is being defended by a frightening percentage of the people in the CW part of the game.

PUG's have no business playing against teams, and new players, casuals, or those with limited skills should not be thrown against highly competitive and/or highly skilled teams. It makes no sense and is not practiced in any other actual sport or game with any reasonable size following.

Unfortunately, this change would take away the free wins, which are part of the "skill" of CW, so it'll never happen. After all, if they play in the normal queue, they won't get to club seals, mock them, and then tell them to "join a team" - because people really want to join a team after getting rolled and trolled. Instead, we'll just continue to get dwindling player numbers, squandered resources on a broken game mode that has driven away a good chunk of the population, and no doubt plenty of scathing reviews if this game every makes it to Steam. ggclose.

Edited by oldradagast, 29 March 2015 - 06:56 AM.

[Dakross]

aughten, on 28 March 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

I think spawn camping is a big issue for this mode. most of the time, it ends up that the opposing team is just waiting for the fresh mechs to drop, a few seconds later those new mechs are done.

Spawn camping is a big issue for me. Is there any reason when mankind can communicate over vast intersteller distances, that someone can't pickup a radio and tell a pilot that drop point alpha is compromised shift reinforcements to other drop points?

Right now, as a returning founder, if there isn't an incentive (such as a free mech this weekend) and CW stays as it is, I will not be playing it. Spawn camping, wait times, and the infamous pug vs premade are the issues I see.

[Redoxin]

madhermit, on 28 March 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

If its a tactic that wins, then it will be used. Don't hate the players, hate the game.

On all my 20 CW drops for the challenge I did not encounter light rushes once. It is not (or very rarely?) being used during this weekend challenge for obvious reasons.
So I dont get why this is being complained about right now when it is at an all time low.

Also most of my games (I only played solo) have been pretty good and close. With a few stomps by premades in between but it was always possible to get the 80 easily still.

[Redoxin]

oldradagast, on 29 March 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:

You're completely correct, but I gave up this fight months ago after wasting time trying to drill facts into the heads of certain people around here that a game mode that is full of free wins for groups and no attempt to balance opponents based on skill or experience is simply boring and idiotic. Imagine a CW-NFL where you can have pro teams on one side and a couple dozen people picked out of the stands at random playing against them. That would be stupid, insane, and wouldn't last more than 2 weeks as as "sport," and yet that is exactly what is being defended by a frightening percentage of the people in the CW part of the game.

PUG's have no business playing against teams, and new players, casuals, or those with limited skills should not be thrown against highly competitive and/or highly skilled teams. It makes no sense and is not practiced in any other actual sport or game with any reasonable size following.

Unfortunately, this change would take away the free wins, which are part of the "skill" of CW, so it'll never happen. After all, if they play in the normal queue, they won't get to club seals, mock them, and then tell them to "join a team" - because people really want to join a team after getting rolled and trolled. Instead, we'll just continue to get dwindling player numbers, squandered resources on a broken game mode that has driven away a good chunk of the population, and no doubt plenty of scathing reviews if this game every makes it to Steam. ggclose.

I agree here, premade vs pug is lame. What I dont get is why so many people like playing in groups. The few games I was grouped with a premade and we stomped them it was boring as ****. The solo grp vs solo grp games were so much more fun.
When I watched the stream of some CW group I even heard them say "hopefully it is a stomp". I just dont get how people can enjoy such non-competetive gaming no matter if on the pug or the premade side..

[Cptn Goodvibes Pig of Steel]

G'day,


There's no point worrying or complaining about CW. All of what's been said or occurs has been raised on numerous occasions in the forums. Obviously, it's something for the developers to fix or get the right balance in, if it's going to be a flagship for the majority of MWO participants. If CW is intended as a preserve for just an exclusive few (organised teams), then so be it. Some players might join large teams, but be warned, a large number of MWO participants (the pugs) will be turned away and could eventually go elsewhere. This is not necessarily to the other existing modes of play in MWO. Game modes such as assault, conquest and skirmish are fun, but they do get boring after awhile. Whilst good for quick action and leveling up of mechs, unless there is a goal or point to the whole exercise, then it will fail to hold the long term interest to some (including me). Especially so if something new or better comes along in the gaming market. CW offered a possible solution to this, but as it is, the Beta CW that we see, is not the answer.

As for myself, unless I'm part of a group, I try to keep clear of CW. Even then, I prefer to seek inner sphere versus inner sphere confrontations. I suspect that the grouping of IS pugs from all of the inner sphere factions against a single Clan entity is a source of the problem. All factions, both IS and Clan should only drop with their respective allegiance groupings. Maybe this will encourage better organisation or somewhat fairer prospective match ups. Hopefully things will improve, but presently, CW is a broken, ill thought out, shallow waste of time that could have been, should have been, so much, much better. Mind you, this is just an opinion from an old war gamer from way, way back. Any fix is probably months, if not years away. My advice is to don't sweat it, enjoy what you have. If not happy, just don't invest further and look elsewhere if it's not satisfactory. You are a consumer. It's okay, PGI will understand and get the message. That's their business. It's just a game and mechs have been around since Battletech, which was long before the advent of the PC. Failing this, maybe the next version will produce something more substantive.


Regards

[Moomtazz]

I'd like to see it scrapped and instead have 2 or 3 persistant worlds ala Planetside. That would allow for both small tactics and large unit strategic actions as well as solo players to join the zerg or run solo scouting or finsing other solo players to fight.

Planetside could be too big to emulate but they could still do something like battlegrounds you see in so many other games, like DarkAge of Camelot or Guild Wars 2. Something that was persistant and allowed players to join and leave as their RL calls.

Edited by Moomtazz, 29 March 2015 - 09:30 AM.

[blackndecker17]

they should take like 5 slots per planet for pug matches, let new people get in and play on an even playing field and let the pre mades battle themselves.

[PerfectDuck]

I made some dumb pie charts that are very bad and highly opinionated. They depict what usually causes a player to win in certain games I'm familiar with.



OF COURSE it doesn't tell the whole story - there are so many factors like morale, experience, etc but I'm trying to make a point here. Go ahead and disagree with the numbers I gave but my point is that MechWarrior Online has different demands of the players than most games. A lot of us who are teamwork-oriented love MW:O for this very reason. There is no getting around the fact that it requires teamwork to win. If you want a game where individual skill matters more, play another game like Counter-Strike or TF2. There is plenty of competition to be had in those realms where talented individual people can and do carry entire teams. There is no solo carry in MW:O. You either are a help to your team or a burden to your team. Don't play a mainly teamwork-based game if you have no interest in (or are bad at) teamwork. This game (as an actual game) caters to a certain kind of competitive player, the teamwork-oriented player, and this is a fact that many people (Mostly fans of the tabletop lore who want desperately to love this game) seem to try to overlook because they want it to be about them and their own vision of what they enjoy.

Fortunately, for casuals, there are other game modes besides CW for you to go and be bad at the game on. Sorry that this event wasn't for you. As a predominantly CW player I was equally disgusted when I had to play conquest with you terrible scum for 25 games to get my grab bag reach-ins. Diverse community etc etc etc.

[Moomtazz]

PerfectDuck, on 29 March 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

As a predominantly CW player I was equally disgusted when I had to play conquest with you terrible scum for 25 games to get my grab bag reach-ins. Diverse community etc etc etc.

Interesting view.

However this game does not require any more teamwork than any other FPS with no, or limited, respawns. The problem that solo players are complaining about is nothing more than a PUG team vs a clan. Group of PUGs vs clan in CS, TF, BF, any FPS with a limited map and set number of playes on each side, the more organized team wins 99.999% of the time.

The complaint is exactly the same as it was with solo players being put in matches vs 12-man groups. The only way to get around it is a solo-only CW queue, or maybe a persistant world model like Planetside or DAoC/Guildwars 2/others battlegrounds.

edit: Maybe even do 8+4 on each side, group of 8 + 4 solo on each team.

Edited by Moomtazz, 29 March 2015 - 10:58 AM.

[Romeo Deluxe]

oldradagast, on 29 March 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:

.....
PUG's have no business playing against teams, and new players, casuals, or those with limited skills should not be thrown against highly competitive and/or highly skilled teams. It makes no sense and is not practiced in any other actual sport or game with any reasonable size following.
......

I completely disagree with you here, this is a game and not a professional sport. However you make some semi valid points. I'm pugger that has pugged and beaten a 12 man premade. Not by myself ofc, but the pug came together, one or two people on mics with a little experience makes a huge difference.

Maybe the match maker can be tweaked to compensate but at some point it's up to the players to make something of their game. Coming from EVE I'm used to that concept even though I prefer to solo here.

Real in-game tutorials might help. I don't think you can do much for people who want easy and get a harder than expected game. They either adapt or choose not too. No amount of social engineering is going to change that. The testing grounds I hope is considered a place holder only and some day there will be useable help there for new players. A better mechlab, better tool tips, in-game FAQ or wiki like section. The pace that PGI puts out stuff, who knows when these things will be here. The rest is up to the players.

[Crosell]

No one is requesting a shut down teams or team work op. But most people who play this are pugs, who one, dont check the forum, two dont know about community ts servers. If the game wants to push such a big group oriented play it needs to offer much more ways to do it. A unit page in game(so people can find a group relatively easily) actually lobbies that people are encouraged to use. Ive yet to see faction chat used. As much as the get gud people and team work op people want to say that pugs needs to stay out of there game. The fact is pugs sustain there game, they are the cash cows, the people who spend money you are the minority in this case. And that doesnt mean we have to make it super casual its just throwing them a bone of a decent match making.

[Davers]

I have been pugging as Clan for the past 2 weeks. I have had a lot of great games. Only seen an enemy 12 man once, and only had a large pre made on my side once. The rest of the games have been all pugs and small units vs the same.

[mekabuser]

this whole thing of OH you must be in a unit etc.. is utter tripe.
FOr one, being in a unit doesnt mean ALl that much as far as actually being successful,

Two, based on some of the behaviour i have witnessed multiple times, there is NO way I would ever want to be part of some of the groups that inhabit CW.. A bunch of loudmouthed children who never stfu. WHy the hell would I want to be a part of something like that?

three, the best games in cw ive played have been pug v pug. Best games by far.
You know what dropping in a group got me, albeit nice guys, but ghost drop after ghost drop.. Yeah.. thats great.

[Gremlich Johns]

With 3 maps, CW is doomed from jump.

[WM Jeri]

Kyp Durron, on 28 March 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

Slaughtering noobs may be enjoyable to some, personally it doesn't hold much interest for me, but I would hope we'd all be rational enough to agree that it isn't real healthy long term for CW. Every time you get someone who decides CW isn't for them, you're reducing the player base.

I have actually quit playing despite a large dollar investment in this game and multiple years playing...the CW promised and what was delivered are simply not my cup of tea and the repetitive nature of the the other game modes is stale.

Coupled with the power an organized unit brings with the fact maps are memorized and terrain choke points maximized without any random dynamic map element adding unknown variables that then start to potentially impact groups with the fog of war and the fights just become as you said farming.

I have had about a half a years premium just ticking away and probably at least that much in the bank with 300 mil in cbills and probably around 12K MC and even with the free this and that giveaway events am not interested in dropping. Forget the new player stuff you have long term folks moving on. We are keeping the lights on for those in our multi-gaming Clan who still play MWO but those numbers shrink every day and at our peak we would run multiple 8/12 mans.

I do stop by from time to time to read the forums but for me, CW was the last gambit for PGI to keep my interest and for a few days it did, until we memorized the maps, the avenues of approach and the half dozen counter strategies needed to react to the enemy forces in order to win.

Their quest for balance at all costs especially as it relates to the maps makes it boring there is literally no FOG of WAR that a procedural generation random map aspect would bring.

Sad after 30 plus years in the Battletech world of gaming from pen to computer I have simply moved on. Latest purchase was a Vanguard in Star Citizen. Do not get me wrong I think I got my monies worth here if you factor in what I spent to the time I played the point I am making as it relates to the OP's post is the ever shrinking player base and the fact I am no longer logging in to play let alone spending money here...you would think PGI would look at the marketing aspect but I think they are past that and development is now in a more maintenance with minor change state and if that is the case then I may be on from time to time for my friends but not for the game.

Best of luck to all!

Edited by WM Jeri, 29 March 2015 - 02:27 PM.

[Stoned Prophet]

Kyp Durron, on 28 March 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

This weekend I was playing CW when we experienced multiple 12 mans, including the all light/all assault combos, among others.

After being in several rounds of this, I noticed comments from some of the guys who were playing CW for their first times saying things like "I think I'll just opt out of this CW thing" and "Is this the way it always goes?"

This just isn't working as intended right now. It doesn't track with the Battletech universe that you can run around in a bunch of lights and roflstomp the entire enemy force. On no less than 4 of my 10 matches today, we had the light rush essentially win, then pull back so that they could farm us for the next 20 minutes. Also ran into a 12 man that did a complete Stalker set, etc etc.

I don't have a problem with people playing in groups. I recognise that it's a good part of the game, but let's be clear. 12 man groups clearing house, and we all know they do, isn't conducive to people enjoying themselves. Not everyone has patience to play a mode where the rounds are up to half an hour, the queues are longer, and occasionally you'll load a match and know right off the bat you're going to get wiped out.

PGI needs to implement some sort of changes. Something to avoid the light rush in the opening waves, and perhaps limiting groups to less than 12 in CW, or placing larger groups into a different queue. When a 12 man goes up against a team of all pubs, it's a slaughter.

Slaughtering noobs may be enjoyable to some, personally it doesn't hold much interest for me, but I would hope we'd all be rational enough to agree that it isn't real healthy long term for CW. Every time you get someone who decides CW isn't for them, you're reducing the player base.

Uncoorodinated new people lose CW? SHOCKER! Pro Tip: CW aint for new players going solo. Its for people who want hard mode.