218 replies to this topic

[Vyviel]

Unseen versions look super ghetto.

Reseen all the way!

[XTRMNTR2K]

Unseen (re-designed with a bit of artistic license involved). Pretty much everything called Reseen just looks like rubbish to me.

[Tarskin]

The question is too general... most reseen are better but some unseen (marauder and war hammer) are just plain awesome

[Konrad Holstead]

I like most "reseen" just the two of my favorite unseen, Warhammer and Marauder, are not great redesigned.

Edit: And those 'mechs are at the heart of BattleTech. They're iconic, even redesigned. Hope they are added eventually.

Edited by Konrad Holstead, 02 July 2012 - 04:29 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

I chose neither option. Though I'd like to see the unseen design used in MWO, I don't want to see PGI or IGP dragged into a long and costly lawsuit by Harmony Gold.

The reseens can go home.

[Melcyna]

Lykaon, on 02 July 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:

Spoiler

Not sure if someone else hit on this but...

Waaay back when FASA put out Battledroids (had to change the name George Lucas fussed over the use of "droids" ) that needed giant robots so...

FASA shopped out to a Japanese plastic model kit company (forget the name and I'm to lazy to fact check right now).

Now this company granted the use of the images of several mecha for FASA's renamed Battletech game (like the rename over battledroids anyhow)

Along comes Harmony Gold who was granted the North American license rights to import a bunch of anime shows that became Robotech in the U.S.(an in doing also had the rights to the images of several unseen)

Harmony Gold did not actually jump right on FASA for copyright violations this came later.The lawsuits actually came about when FASA sued Playmates a toy company that was producing toys for exo squad and under licence from HG repackaged macross mecha.
It seems some point prior to Playmates deal with HG they were approached by FASA to make Battletech toys,Playmates declined and apparently shortly after started kicking out exo squad toys thus the FASA vs Playmates suit. (FASA vs Playmates favored Playmates but FASA was not cited for paying legal fees to Playmates so it was a soft loss)

So...Harmony Gold counter sues FASA for the use of unseen mechs this legal battle was dragging on and on (FASA had secured use rights for images but not from HG,HG claimed exclusive rights bla bla ..so on)

HG VS FASA ended in an out of court settlement .the terms of this settlement were never made public.All we know is post settlement FASA pulled all Macross related designs and all the other images/designs licenced from that Japanese model export company that I can't for the life of me remember.

So that is where we are. The fate of the unseen seem to be wraped up in that undisclosed out of court settlement.Battletech changed hands FASA to Fanpro to Catalyst and no unseen.even Catalyst's TRO 3039 lacked the reseen images of the questionable unseen.

The issue is a tangle of international copyright and licensing law and how that mystery settlement between FASA and HG effects the new license holders for Battletech.And I can't even begin to guess...

Interesting, i was not aware of the conflict with Playmates mentioned in the initial part, i had always thought it was HG and FASA butting head from the start.

Was there a full disclosure as to the chronological order of the whole fiasco?

Thorn Hallis, on 02 July 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

I chose neither option. Though I'd like to see the unseen design used in MWO, I don't want to see PGI or IGP dragged into a long and costly lawsuit by Harmony Gold.

The reseens can go home.

What about the other materials? ie: non Macross materials?

Dougram and Crusher Joe designs had some of my favorite, i'd be a shame to lose them too... and HG doesn't own anything regarding their publishing license as i recall it.

Edited by Melcyna, 02 July 2012 - 04:38 AM.

[Roguewolf]

The really amusing thing of this whole Reseen vs Unseen is that it just gives people the opportunity to jump on their high horse, and shout "But we should have the originals, even if they look like vintage 80's mecha, waaaa waaa waaa".

Okay, so that's very general, but unfortunately in many cases true. I the case of the Warhammer, I want a mech with the capabilities of that Battlemech, I don't care if it looks like an Urby when they are done with it. Now since the Reseen actually look pretty damn close to the originals in most cases, but without the copyright infringement issues, I would rather see the Reseen designs then nothing at all. If it comes down to these Mechs being in the game, but in only the Reseen format, it is probably a safe assumption that less then 5% of players are going to get a burr under their saddle about the mechs not looking like the Originals taken from other Intellectual Properties.

*Shrugs*

[NWHHarrier]

Can I get a quick confirmation of the unseen/reseen concept for a BT newbie? I've read the entry on Sarna but it still seems hazy for some reason.

it's my understanding that some time ago, FASA lost the legal right to use the images of some mechs because they too closely resembled designs from another franchise, which makes sense. After that, the mechs and their specifications and background still existed, they just had no usable likeness to go with them, hence the name unseen. some time later it was decided that hey, it's not good enough having a warhammer exist in name only and only as numbers on a stat table, so we gotta give this guy a proper look/ model. once these were created they became reseen.

does that about sum it up, more or less?

[HellJumper]

I like the reseen designs except for the Warhammer... the org looks much much better

[SideSt3p]

I voted for the Reseens done by Alex. I think he'd turn them into something fantastic

[Ordy]

The Longbow you have pictured is actually the second version. I will try to find the mini for the first.

[Variis]

Personally, with the way these guys have been remodeling some of these mechs, I don't think it matters which version you want. If the "unseen" make it into the game, they wouldn't look like either version anyhow.

I consider this a good thing.

Edited by Variis, 02 July 2012 - 05:14 AM.

[Valkeminator]

Personally I prefer the Unseen design, but rather than having pointless fight with HG its better if they become "Reseen" therefore my poll vote. I WANT MY MARAUDER!! *sniff* but on the other hand I can see why HG would sue for these unseen designs...

[An0n3]

Rychard Starheart, on 01 July 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

Warhammer, Archer, Battlemaster, Valkrye and Marauder are the only reseens that really need work. the rest look great. If they are limited to the Reseens, Im sure Alex can fix them.

btw, Id totally drop $50 just for the Battlemaster.

Seconded. That Battlemaster update is amazing. My favorite of all the reseen.

[Kifferson von doober]

I'd love to have my childhood mechs in game, if they have to look a little different to get them there then so be it. I trust alex's discresion.

[Gorith]

I a ok with most of the reseen sans the valkyre, phoenix hawk, shadow hawk, rifleman. The last two being mainly because of the rotary cannon look.

I actually prefer the reseen battlemaster

The marauder *sigh* I have mixed feelings on the reseen while I feel it's very well drawn I do not feel it fits as a good replacement for the original macross design

And I would love to see how Alex and the art department at PGI would bring these back to life

[Fl3tcher]

I Vote Reseen, now lets pester the devs until we get them ingame!

[Bongo TauKat]

I would love to see the Reseen, with they would make them more like mechs and less like a guy in a suit. I loved the original mechs because of the massive and robust designs that made you believe they could house all the automation needed to propel 70 tons of metal. THe new designs just look to thin and person like to make me truly like them.

[Undead Bane]

So, overally, reseen are winning the poll, but not with a big gap.
I would really like to see the poll when the game launches open beta, as many new players, unfamiliar with BT universe may come to the forums.

[Melcyna]

The problem is that we are applying a generalization here with them...

whereas most ppl will likely have differing opinion for reseen/unseen per individual mech.

If we just take it at face value and assume that since there are more ppl who agree with reseen design as base than unseen, then you slap the redesign across the board and hit the nerve with warhammer design or marauder and there will be NON STOP whine and complaint.

A bad idea overall...

Like it or not, it has to be done per mech basis... and for each mech, Alex or whoever is in charge of their arts department will have to decide on how much of the original trait element designs need to be retained so that it is still recognizable as the classic mech and yet not so far off it hits all the wrong nerve.