291 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

MauttyKoray, on 06 April 2015 - 10:53 PM, said:

Is it sad that the Clan quirks so far are more balanced than the IS quirks? Even more so because you have to balance them while remembering that omnipods can be swapped and thus bonuses stacked if on different omnipods.

It is. Hopefully the IS mechs will start to fall in line as well.

[Lily from animove]

Kuritaclan, on 07 April 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

And therefore quirks should have be done it first place but rather free endo/ff/dhs/jj for the oors first and the quirks as polish.

Btu now it is over i guess, since the work was made they get paid for it, so it would be double work to do it again just do admit they did badly.

everytime I have a closer look at the tables I wanna shake my head a bit more thinking:

I mean on the IFR, would anyone use the non 11 HP RT? would anyone not using missiles ever use the non 11 HP LT? those pitch and yaw angles and rates are so minor features in relevance hat I do not know who and why they were chosen and with which priority.

then The CT quirks, WOW prime is a dead child, 5% rear speed and 5% yaw vs the weapon quirks of A C and E variants?

2.5% turn rate on a leg equals 5 leg HP? I really doubt that, not at IFR speed, there the HP's > anythign else.

Why, Who how, did they ever build an omnimech in the mechlab their own? you see clearly which quirks are nonsense, and even more which pods are obsolete because oher do the job better.
I just wihs they never gave CT's different quirks, they just killed a few chassis with this, and evertime I see such a thing something in me cries because a viable part of MWO dies.

MauttyKoray, on 06 April 2015 - 10:53 PM, said:

Is it sad that the Clan quirks so far are more balanced than the IS quirks? Even more so because you have to balance them while remembering that omnipods can be swapped and thus bonuses stacked if on different omnipods.

if you would look a bit closer, you would actually already see that some quirks make no sense and with the ability to swap omnipods some pods have no point, and the ct differing quirks enhanced this problem dorectly on the chassis now, while before it only applied to pods.

Edited by Lily from animove, 08 April 2015 - 01:34 AM.

[Summon3r]

Talos7, on 07 April 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

Yay! Finally my Nova gets some lovin!

lol you call that lovin? to each their own i guess

[Lily from animove]

Summon3r, on 07 April 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

lol you call that lovin? to each their own i guess

For some people, love is getting beaten with a stick. But I guess thats what PGI was aiming for: making people happy with palceboo buffs.

Edited by Lily from animove, 07 April 2015 - 07:43 AM.

[DONTOR]

Wing 0, on 06 April 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

Epic fail.. good god... No wonder so many lost faith in you guys.

You clearly didnt even read them, the new structure boosts alone are an EPIC improvement to many of the chassis.

Edited by DONTOR, 07 April 2015 - 07:45 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Lily from animove, on 07 April 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

@Widowmaker

yes the 2 PPC adder, maybe, but lets be hones, look a the base adders, which one would you chosse? I see currently no reason why on ANY adder I want to built I should not use a prime CT+legs. The problem of many quirks is they either do not adress the issue of a mech, or they do not differ in importantance.

compare them:

ADR Prime:
25% acc/decc
10%reverse speed.


ADR-A
10%Acc/dec
12 turn angle
10%T-yaw rate
5%reverse speed

ADR-D
10%Acc/dec
6 turn angle
20%T-yaw rate


ADR-B
10%Acc/dec
5% Turn rate
Turn rate speed 5%

So no idea why but the reverse speed and acc/decc are vital for popping maneuvers.

The turn speed may be iportant for srm circling and running between opponents.

Which makes:

The prime having usage for pooping over the A and D. because angle rates? lol pitiful till nonsense.
The B having the advantage on circling over the A and D.

B and prime, compete on the situation. But A D ? they compete about the place they gather dust in the mech hangar.

So this chocie is by raw comaprison, with no other mechs than itself already a rather no brain decision.

Same for missiles. if you use a build with only 2 M in use, 4%(8) spread, vs 3%(8) velocity? Hmm, honestly, both values are so low, they will not even be my motivation to choose one of them. Simply the question if I want my M in the arms or Torso is way more meanign full than any of these two quirks.

same for PPC's I will palce them in CT. because thats what matters more than the quirks at all. yet 15% heat gen on the arms is decent enough to choose the arms as well. So I will miss the acc/decc rate ot the priems 8-set. But honestly, higher more save torso location for hillpopping of my PPC's vs 2,5% acc/decc that the prime set brings? thats very much a no brain decision vs the arms. Yet I will not run the ADR-A for the setboni, because 15% PPC heat and velocity vs 4turn angle and 2,5% yaw rate? Again a no brian decision.

So in the end on many clanquirks we have gotten, half are meanignless at all, because they are either outclassed by other pods, or can't compete with the decision of the hardpoint location, because the "gain" of the quirks is less than the gain of hadpoint locations.
So a 2 laser, 2 Missile Adder will not be choosen by the pod quirks, it will simply chosen by my favour of the M's being in the Torsi or Arms. because 4% cooldown or 4% heat gen, or 6% duration are so tiny and meaningless. Same for the missile spread or velocity.

and non of these quirks, make the mech really more appealign or better at all except maybe the PPC quirks.

I get your point and agree to an extent, but i also think those quirks are minor, only for flavour really and dont matter much (plus i sold all the adders apart from the Prime (i) lol) - its the combat effectiveness of the best version of the mech i can make that i care about

[Desintegrator]

That minor single percent changes wont change anything !

But if you mean you have to work on this - keep on changing...and changing...and changing

In my opinion there are some more important things to spent time on like a new Mechlab like Smurfys.
Which have been promised 1,5 years ago, but we will never see it in the game...

[Lily from animove]

DONTOR, on 07 April 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

You clearly didnt even read them, the new structure boosts alone are an EPIC improvement to many of the chassis.

no they aren't 20+ sturcture on arms, while ST's get pitiful 8 or 9 on most clanmech shaped chassis is nonsense. this works on humaoid IS mechs, not on chicken legged long nosed clan Torsi's where you can hit ST's from nearly any angle.and not hide them with arms as IS mechs can do.

Widowmaker1981, on 07 April 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

I get your point and agree to an extent, but i also think those quirks are minor, only for flavour really and dont matter much (plus i sold all the adders apart from the Prime (i) lol) - its the combat effectiveness of the best version of the mech i can make that i care about

sry I consider those acc/decc quirks not minor they impact the ability to appear, fire and disappaer, and so are a very very vital feature. while turn and yaw rates are, indeed rather negliable things. and thats why the adder here is so totally "unbalanced" as interpod quirks. The vitality od acc/decc a any popping action is mattering a lot. especially without JJ's that I consider the prime as the one chassis to choose over all the others. the adder is a rather big small, not getting hit is what you need, turning to get hit somewhere else is not a real valid option. On light and medium level this is the no. one quirk to choose over others than HP buffs.
Unfortunately on other clanmechs the prime and so (I) or even (G) variants not really have gotten the good side of the stick with those quirks.

[Domenoth]

Desintegrator, on 07 April 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

Which have been promised 1,5 years ago, but we will never see it in the game...

You are obviously a wise, well informed, prophetic individual. You are a credit to the MWO community.

[Ahne]

Whoever likes those "update politics" are damn Fast&Furious7 watcher! Hilarious!

[The Mechromancer]

Mah Warhawk!

[Bidetlol]

seriously i'm just sorry to say this but quirk on sumonner are just beyond terrible.

For the sumonner: its main problem is the tonnage, just the tonnage. I just looked at your quirk and it seems impossible to do a good build with any of the combination:

the only good quirk are mobility, structure quirk. Weapons quirks are just far too small with the tonnage you can put on a sumonner

base variants:

Prime:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a60d3429f0c61bf

only 2.5tons of ammo with a LBX10. Its just NOT enouth, so you are forced to use a lbx5, but only 1 LBX5 is just ultra ultra bad. So basically Prime= garbage

C variant:

Same problem as the prime. to have enouth ammo you need to use a uac5 and with two laser you are forced to use 2 med. A build like this is just pure garbage. the mix of Laser and UAC is just ultra bad in general. Same problem as the Prime: Tonnage


B variant:
Could be cool but the values of the quirks are so small..... its useless just stack lrm and srm and put general missiles quirk, and even with this it will be bad. the total need to be more or less +20% to be effetive. not something like "4% spread" seriously?!

D variant:

Same as B variant. Could be cool but the bonus are just ultra ridiculous. With the tonnage , the sumonner need less heat gen. not cooldown, and even less with this kind of quirck. Seriously 4 quirk to have 10% cooldown?!





ho and, just stop putting specific weapons quirk on OMNIMECH plase

[Mike Forst]

Koniving, on 06 April 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

Thank you for having these listed, and it clicked to zoom for me. But now I have a Nova question! Nova-S LT and Nova-B LT presents a problem. The S LT is clearly superior because it features a 3 degree larger Yaw Rate. The B LT is otherwise exactly identical except for this detail. Why should we ever use the B LT aside from the acceleration/deceleration buff for a complete Nova B? Why are the quirks otherwise identical for the B and S left torsos? What would give us a real reason for using it? Just sayin', because if this got overlooked then what else has? There should totally be a group of highly perceptive players pre-screening these things. Also -- why are the quirks so specific? MG only? What if I wanted an ST LBX or autocannon? But that's a wide-spread issue with quirks, rather than one specific to the Nova. If the fear is pooling the quirks for mass boating, then consider the question/suggestion below the hyphens. --- Lastly: Has the concept of quirks whose effects exclusively affect weapons mounted on that limb been brought to the table? (i.e. the "50% ER PPC Thunderbolt" of the past, wouldn't have been so game breaking if 50% was exclusively for the right arm and had zero effect on any other limb's weapons [no other ER PPCs or weapons would get the right arm's quirks]). You'd see fewer of the boats that the quirks are spawning for the IS and more diverse loadouts. Just a thought. Final edit: Domenoth had a related but different idea. I included it on this linked post along with the expansion/explanation of my idea for clarification.

Oops. I saw that it was missing something when I was designing it, when I went to input it and when I verified it and still missed fixing it. It'll be on my to-do list.

Edit: Regarding localized quirks: I've thought about it a lot before I even started inputting a single quirk. I agree it would be cool. I'll probably submit a feature request for it. As it stands though it's not possible using the current weapons system and will probably require a lot of work to implement.

[Wing 0]

Mike Forst, on 07 April 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

Oops. I saw that it was missing something when I was designing it, when I went to input it and when I verified it and still missed fixing it. It'll be on my to-do list.

Edit: Regarding localized quirks: I've thought about it a lot before I even started inputting a single quirk. I agree it would be cool. I'll probably submit a feature request for it. As it stands though it's not possible using the current weapons system and will probably require a lot of work to implement.

good idea.

[Mike Forst]

Shadow Magnet, on 06 April 2015 - 11:43 PM, said:

I take the basic -10% energy heat gen quirk was removed from all Novas, right? Great, so builds with > 6 pulse lasers got 5% heat gen nerf. Just what the Nova needed. Oh well, time to use only the SL build. Build diversity succesfully reduced... If the Nova would have kept the basic 10% energy heat gen quirk plus the new LA+RA quirks it would make much more sense. But oh well... Summoner, Gargoyle, still not attractive. I doubt that the little % heat gen quirk of the Adder will make up for 2 CERPPCs PGI, could you please use 5% instead of 1-2% steps for your quirk passes? At this speed we will reach the useful quirk range of combined 10-15% at the end of the year. Couldn't we switch directly to that?

I have a spreadsheet that has quirk calculation formulas based on the data from the game's weapon stats. I've picked tolerances for weapons based on a low/medium/high range for them those ranges in the March 17 quirk pass were misapplied which is why you saw a fast adjustment in this patch. You're seeing a lot of the "low" values right for weapons now. Once these quirks enter the battlefield and I gather data, I can start turning dials a bit.

You may have also noticed I am also biased more towards survivability, movement and agility instead of weapons buffs. Mechs are getting Time to Live boosts right now because in my opinion that's really what they need.

[Wing 0]

Bidetlol, on 07 April 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

seriously i'm just sorry to say this but quirk on sumonner are just beyond terrible.

For the sumonner: its main problem is the tonnage, just the tonnage. I just looked at your quirk and it seems impossible to do a good build with any of the combination:

the only good quirk are mobility, structure quirk. Weapons quirks are just far too small with the tonnage you can put on a sumonner

base variants:

Prime:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a60d3429f0c61bf

only 2.5tons of ammo with a LBX10. Its just NOT enouth, so you are forced to use a lbx5, but only 1 LBX5 is just ultra ultra bad. So basically Prime= garbage

C variant:

Same problem as the prime. to have enouth ammo you need to use a uac5 and with two laser you are forced to use 2 med. A build like this is just pure garbage. the mix of Laser and UAC is just ultra bad in general. Same problem as the Prime: Tonnage


B variant:
Could be cool but the values of the quirks are so small..... its useless just stack lrm and srm and put general missiles quirk, and even with this it will be bad. the total need to be more or less +20% to be effetive. not something like "4% spread" seriously?!

D variant:

Same as B variant. Could be cool but the bonus are just ultra ridiculous. With the tonnage , the sumonner need less heat gen. not cooldown, and even less with this kind of quirck. Seriously 4 quirk to have 10% cooldown?!





ho and, just stop putting specific weapons quirk on OMNIMECH plase

agreed. quirks on specific pods for a mech like the sumonner isn't going to help it in being a good mech on the field. With the layout each of the variants have it is totally unusable. there some things on the sumonner that needs help on and specific pods quirks isn't going to work for it.

[Mike Forst]

Lily from animove, on 07 April 2015 - 02:11 AM, said:

@Mike a few questions: why is the adder flamer listed? will it now be removeable?

It's there in my spreadsheet to remind me that the energy point there is not really usable and that I should not quirk it. I removed it during the previous info dump but forgot to this time. It's still hardlocked.

Quote

What happened to the Novas general 10% heatquirk? It's not listed as removed, not listed as a quirk that stayed nor as altered.

Well I try to keep it as accurate as possible but sometimes mistakes happen.

Quote

what was the intention of the NVA structure buffs? +8 ona dragon soued CT? why so lousy? yet arms and even legs got massive HP buffs. WHY? its pointless to buff these when people simply aim at CT's and ST's because NVA is too easy to hit there than anywhere else. It's not a centurion that can hide its CT.

The CT buff might be too small. I'll see how it goes and re-evaluate.

Quote

So who is in charge to give out quriks, and to reevaluate these quirks on the entire picture of mechs? Why do mechs with identical CT's and legs even get different quirks? <snip>

Because the idea is to at least give players options about what quirks they want on their mechs. This is one thing that the Clans get that the IS won't: the ability to build your own quirk set. Everyone has different playstyles and I'd like to provide more flexibility into what movement profiles a player would like. They alternative is to have them all the same or not haave quirks on them and that's just as bad in the other way.

[Domenoth]

Mike Forst, on 07 April 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

Edit: Regarding localized quirks: I've thought about it a lot before I even started inputting a single quirk. I agree it would be cool. I'll probably submit a feature request for it. As it stands though it's not possible using the current weapons system and will probably require a lot of work to implement.

I'm a fan of the localized quirks. Just curious if you've also considered Diminishing Quirks. In a perfect world, I'd like to see the option for both. Localized and diminishing quirks are really just ways to provide bonuses without providing carte blanche to boat.

[Mike Forst]

Desintegrator, on 07 April 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

That minor single percent changes wont change anything ! But if you mean you have to work on this - keep on changing...and changing...and changing In my opinion there are some more important things to spent time on like a new Mechlab like Smurfys. Which have been promised 1,5 years ago, but we will never see it in the game...

This is coming. I sat down at the "new mechlab test" PC yesterday and used it for a bit and gave feedback. It's real.

[Wing 0]

Mike Forst, on 07 April 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

This is coming. I sat down at the "new mechlab test" PC yesterday and used it for a bit and gave feedback. It's real.

wouldn't it be nice to get a preview of it? we did that last time.