203 replies to this topic

[One Medic Army]

Timberwolf, Stormcrow, and Firestarter are the three I'd like to see taken down a notch.

Reasons:

Stormcrow doesn't have sustained DPS of IS mediums, but it doesn't need them with far superior alpha (due to everyone's favorite ERML barf), and higher speed. Plus actual good hitboxes, and the ability to build for shield side while running an XL.

Timberwolf is like the storm crow, only bigger. It's as fast or faster than most mediums, but with the alpha power of an assault, and almost the durability of a STD engine heavy. It runs hot if you press it, but with the speed, range, and alpha they're hard to press.

Firestarter is over-quirked, and has hit registration issues, I say this both as someone who fights against them and someone who has driven them. Sometimes it's like lasers are rain, and you just got a nice thick wax coating.

Hellbringer is fine, only an issue in CW and that's more due to the fact Clan teams have a much easier time putting ECM in their decks without sacrificing hitting power. With the new Griffin on the IS side it'll even out.

Driewolf is also fine, it's a big slow target, which can blow the hell out of anything that stands in front of it.

Stalker-4N could probably stand to have the quirks toned down, seeing as I run that load out on other stalkers without the quirks and it's still damn good.

Edited by One Medic Army, 18 April 2015 - 04:15 PM.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 April 2015 - 04:12 PM, said:

So I take it you do not agree with Gman listing most IS mechs as lower tiers? http://metamechs.com...-lists/is-list/
Or the mechs that are listed as viable for group drop? http://metamechs.com...sts/group-list/

Gman is a decent player, but honestly his mech guides are just a guide line for people who are new to the game, or cant come up with comp builds. Kinda like a Prima strategy guide, that only includes a couple decent builds. Pro players dont even read his guide dude.

[Pjwned]

I've said this before in a few other threads but mechs like the STK-4N do not need energy weapon heat quirks, or if they do then something very minimal like -7.5% heat generation for all energy weapons and that's it. Other quirks like range and laser duration are debatable, but the energy heat quirks are out of hand.

[Johnny Z]

I am reluctant to say "nerf the clans" but I will anyway. NERF THE CLANS!!

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Johnny Z, on 18 April 2015 - 04:22 PM, said:

I am reluctant to say "nerf the clans" but I will anyway. NERF THE CLANS!!

They already did. So time to nerf something else, HAHA.

[Johnny Z]

beleneagle, on 18 April 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

I suspect that PGI must have lost quite a few gamers when they did the Victor/Highlander nerfs, and some more with the forced fixed JJ's on the Timbers. I believe that's why they are in no rush to do anymore nerfs per say....

You know what? I agree, i think the balance guys opinion of clan pilots is nearly the same as mine. I am not kidding. They want easy mode, they dont want a fair fight and many would quit if they had to use balanced mechs and have a fair fight.

It has been my opinion for a while that easy mode was left in the game this long because the guys making this game have a combination of respect for players that got the packs and supported the game and thoughts that at least some would quit if they didnt have easy mode anymore. Straight up.

storm crow = heavy nerf
timber wolf = medium nerf
dire wolf = light nerf
loki = light nerf

Omni XL nerf of some kind

CERML -1 to damage
Cstreaks = longer lock on time or something

Thats fair.

Also many clan pilot skill has suffered because of easy mode and it would take them a while to adjust and actually use balanced mechs properly.

Ya the firestarter needs a nerf to. I cant think of any other OP Inner Sphere mechs at the moment.

Edited by Johnny Z, 18 April 2015 - 04:38 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

I think those who cry about even more nerfs should be forced to drive said mechs in question, while fighting mechs who have to face said OP mechs (against quircked IS mechs). I'm very confident, that the nerf cry will shift very fast from said questioned mechs to some of the "not so" OP overquirked IS mechs.

Clans already got nerfed to the point that "some" chassies are considered DOA thanks to burntime/heatscale weapon balancing. not to mention that the other side got buffed so hard that some mechs are able to fire twice as fast than they should be, not to speak of ghostheat remove + quirk stack for several mechs.

To put it blunt: IS mech with 4 high energy mounts? let's cut ghostheat by 50%, and give it - 20% on largelasers.
Clan mech with 3 high energy mounts? that must be toned down!

"Balance is so focused on giving IS chassies easy game that it is almost hilarious.

Edited by LOADED, 18 April 2015 - 04:55 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

Gman is a decent player, but honestly his mech guides are just a guide line for people who are new to the game, or cant come up with comp builds. Kinda like a Prima strategy guide, that only includes a couple decent builds. Pro players dont even read his guide dude.

Didnt ask about his builds or if comp players used his page. I asked if you agreed with his tier list So do you?

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

I think those who cry about even more nerfs should be forced to drive said mechs in question, while fighting mechs who have to face said OP mechs (against quircked IS mechs). I'm very confident, that the nerf cry will shift very fast from said questioned mechs to some of the "not so" OP overquirked IS mechs.

Clans already got nerfed to the point that "some" chassies are considered DOA thanks to burntime/heatscale weapon balancing. not to mention that the other side got buffed so hard that some mechs are able to fire twice as fast than they should be, not to speak of ghostheat remove + quirk stack for several mechs.

To put it blunt: IS mech with 4 high energy mounts? let's cut ghostheat by 50%, and give it - 20% on largelasers.
Clan mech with 3 high energy mounts? that must be toned down!

"Balance is so focused on giving IS chassies easy game that it is almost hilarious.

Not sure if I understood this correctly. You are saying those calling for Clan nerfs do not pilot them is this correct?

[Matthew Ace]

In all honesty, I do not think Daishis need any nerfs, at least judging from the CW matches and Solo PUG queue I have gone through. Maybe Group queue is a completely different animal, I don't know? There is something wrong if a Daishi doesn't make an average player like me break out in sweat.

As for the Mad Cat and Ryoken, I would probably just tone down their twist range and pitch (90 and 110 unquirked?). Make them have to rely on arm twist range and pitch if they want extended reach.

I do think that there are IS mechs that are a little overbearing at the moment too:
- the Dragon 1N, while I'm fine if it still have a significantly higher ROF on AC5, needs a slight toning down, just to make its DPS slightly more bearable.
- the Firestarters, especially the all-energy ones, just needs a lower engine cap for starters (275/280?); no reason for it to completely overshadow Jenner F in speed department. It will still be fast enough.

===

Just a day ago, I was thinking how there's a number of clan mechs that comes stock with AMS at least in one of their alt config. At the same time, the quintessential drop deck consists more of Mad Cats and Ryokens (with the occasional Loki for ECM) than any others...

What if only omnipods that comes stock with AMS can carry them? The downside with this idea being it would hamper the less potent chassis without AMS hardpoint (e.g. Man O War, Vulture, Puma.... i.e. blanket nerf - you get the idea). The other direction would be for Mad Cats and Ryoken to not have any AMS hardpoints. This would slightly increase the variance in clan drop deck at the very least (not that LRMs are in a good spot currently).

Edited by Matthew Ace, 18 April 2015 - 07:12 PM.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Ug, I really hate threads like these.

You can't just nerf the best usable clan mechs without nerfing the IS mechs.

A reasonable thread would have been to discuss how we will nerf the TW, Crow, Hellbringer, Stalker, Dragon, and firestarter.

Besides the devs have said they are not nerfing any of the clan mechs further at the moment so this thread is basically pointless without the data to do that analysis.

Edited by Blueduck, 18 April 2015 - 07:16 PM.

[Mcgral18]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 April 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

So what about fixing non viable mechs by giving them better quirks?

The bad ones don't need quirks; they need relaxed construction rules...doesn't need to be like the IS where they tend to ignore almost every rule, but a couple.

Overengined, underengined, terribly constructed robots are the issue. Who have already been blanket nerfed, because of robots who are less terribly constructed, and almost optimal.

Not a single Clam robot is optimal, though. Almost, but not quite.

[One Medic Army]

Blueduck, on 18 April 2015 - 07:15 PM, said:

Ug, I really hate threads like these.

You can't just nerf the best usable clan mechs without nerfing the IS mechs.

Why not?

The ERPPC Thunderbolt got nerfed, mainly due to clan CW players complaining, and no clan mechs were nerfed in compensation that I'm aware of.

If the IS stuff is really so OP compared to clan mechs, then let the SCR and TBR get nerfed, so it'll be more apparent.

Edited by One Medic Army, 18 April 2015 - 07:38 PM.

[Slow and Decrepit]

Instead of going on and on about who what and when gets nerfed, buffed, or scaled right or wrong, I'm going going to do a little nerfing of my own, AC20 style! Nuff talk, time to get playin'!

[Telmasa]

Johnny Z, on 18 April 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

CERML -1 to damage
Cstreaks = longer lock on time or something

This whole thread can be summed up into this. That change is literally all it takes to bring the Stormcrow/Timberwolf 'metanoob' builds into line with the rest of the game.

Direwolves are fighting about on par with King Crabs, I don't see why any change would be necessary there.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

One Medic Army, on 18 April 2015 - 07:37 PM, said:

Why not?

The ERPPC Thunderbolt got nerfed, mainly due to clan CW players complaining, and no clan mechs were nerfed in compensation that I'm aware of.

If the IS stuff is really so OP compared to clan mechs, then let the SCR and TBR get nerfed, so it'll be more apparent.

No, he was not straight up nerfed.

They gave him a heat nerf in exchange for a ppc speed increase to turn him into a dedicated sniper as opposed to a mech that could brawl with ppcs. PPC splaying is a detriment to this game and the rebalance was perfect so that the mech was still viable but now situational as it should be with a sniper based mech.

And I never said IS mechs were overpowered. From what I understand the devs indicated the data showed they are somewhat balanced at the moment. Meaning if you want to nerf the clan bread and butter mechs you should do the same with the IS mechs such as the stalker and thunderbolt.

Take off those IS blinders and I think you'll see you can't nerf one side's main mechs without nerfing the others.

[One Medic Army]

Blueduck, on 18 April 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

No, he was not straight up nerfed.

They gave him a heat nerf in exchange for a ppc speed increase to turn him into a dedicated sniper as opposed to a mech that could brawl with ppcs. PPC splaying is a detriment to this game and the rebalance was perfect so that the mech was still viable but now situational as it should be with a sniper based mech.

And I never said IS mechs were overpowered. From what I understand the devs indicated the data showed they are somewhat balanced at the moment. Meaning if you want to nerf the clan bread and butter mechs you should do the same with the IS mechs such as the stalker and thunderbolt.

Take off those IS blinders and I think you'll see you can't nerf one side's main mechs without nerfing the others.

You're talking about CW, not pub/group queue. Different game mode, different balance.

Also, I played during that event, clan teams were full of PUGs in trial mechs.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

One Medic Army, on 18 April 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

You're talking about CW, not pub/group queue. Different game mode, different balance.

Also, I played during that event, clan teams were full of PUGs in trial mechs.

Yes, but you can't change the mechs in one without affecting the other.

In regards to the event both sides were full of PUGS in trials. My unit of 300+ strong was teamed up with MS and all we ran into was IS pugs.

In other words maybe we shouldn't be using our individuals samples, which are meaningless, and instead rely on the devs who said the win % was about even and they aren't planning any major balance changes soon.

Edited by Blueduck, 18 April 2015 - 10:27 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Blueduck, on 18 April 2015 - 10:27 PM, said:

Yes, but you can't change the mechs in one without affecting the other.

In regards to the event both sides were full of PUGS in trials. My unit of 300+ strong was teamed up with MS and all we ran into was IS pugs.

In other words maybe we shouldn't be using our individuals samples, which are meaningless, and instead rely on the devs who said the win % was about even and they aren't planning any major balance changes soon.

6% more clan wins than IS, which may or may not be statistically significant.

My main point was the clan PUGs were likely to be in absolutely terrible (trial) mechs. At least the IS trials aren't just stock builds, but champions. Plus the IS mechs have been out longer and cost less.

[edit] Forgot that the IS also has the vaunted light rush, which gives them an edge on attack that's not strictly a combat advantage. Firestarters are also on my list of things to tweak.

Edited by One Medic Army, 18 April 2015 - 10:37 PM.

[Juodas Varnas]

One Medic Army, on 18 April 2015 - 10:31 PM, said:

6% more clan wins than IS, which may or may not be statistically significant.

My main point was the clan PUGs were likely to be in absolutely terrible (trial) mechs. At least the IS trials aren't just stock builds, but champions. Plus the IS mechs have been out longer and cost less.

IS mechs also look cooler.
Don't forget it!