203 replies to this topic

[aniviron]

So the thing about the Direwolf is that yeah, it's good, but I feel like it's at the right place for a 100 ton mech. If anything the Atlas needs a buff rather than a nerf to the DWF. Now, if the DWF were at the same performance level it is now and were 20 tons lighter, that'd be an issue. As is, the thing is so slow and clunky it's got a very exploitable weakness in public drops, and it's 100 tons which means it's not that good in CW because it limits what other mechs you can bring quite severely.

SCR and TBR need to be looked at absolutely though. Personally, I would just swap the SCR's torso twist speeds and angles, which are among the best in the game for a medium, with the Nova's, which are among the worst.

[CantHandletheTruth]

Torgun, on 18 April 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

The big CT is a major downfall for the mech, up close in a brawl it's a huge target.

You only have to present the chest for .5 seconds at a time, the rest you are rolling.

That is why its a strong mech.

[Chuck Jager]

Lightfoot, on 18 April 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

I'll see your ECM Hellbringer and raise you an ECM Atlas. There is no difference. The Atlas is the toughest mech in the game.

Hellbringer - 4 high mount lasers 2 high mount ACs
Atlas - 0 high mount energy or acs

I think that for every 1 point of extra armor the atlas takes an extra 2 plus points of damage compared to the weapon placement on the hellbringer. An atlas with a 350 engine is a monster in a brawl, but the extra range of cERmlas and cMPlas makes it harder for IS brawl builds to get in their optimal range before the game is won or lost. Yes teamwork will always change this, but most mechs do not get 3-6 players on VOIP doing what I want them to.

[Torgun]

CantHandletheTruth, on 18 April 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

You only have to present the chest for .5 seconds at a time, the rest you are rolling.

That is why its a strong mech.

I'm pretty sure it's way more than 0.5 secs since your CT will be exposed both before and after you're facing your opponents while firing. More like 1s at least.

Edited by Torgun, 18 April 2015 - 12:18 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

You only have to present the chest for .5 seconds at a time, the rest you are rolling.

That is why its a strong mech.

And with the one below I am presenting the chest front for only .85 but I do everything a bit faster and I have jump jets to make you spread damage also.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...195b7ac333965d9

[CantHandletheTruth]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 April 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

And with the one below I am presenting the chest front for only .85 but I do everything a bit faster and I have jump jets to make you spread damage also.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...195b7ac333965d9

Not to mention twice the heat generation.

[Gas Guzzler]

This is a pointless circle of "oh in this situation this is better".

Just FYI.

[Kuritaclan]

Torgun, on 18 April 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

Up close you'd of course use mainly the SRMs and yes unless you have problems aiming, hitting the CT of a 5SS should not be an issue.

I have seen more TDR Sticks with STD engines than cored out TDRs, stop trash talking about accurate aiming spread Weapons on CTs vs quirked shortbeam Wub Torsotwisters.

CantHandletheTruth, on 18 April 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

XX Sulla XX, on 18 April 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

And with the one below I am presenting the chest front for only .85 but I do everything a bit faster and I have jump jets to make you spread damage also.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...195b7ac333965d9

Not to mention twice the heat generation.

Therfore the initial damage is higher. anyway. This does not help any balance discussions. Since a TDR vs TBR comp is a 10T diffrence Matchup, so to speak anyway wayne, and it melt down to teamplay, where a spongy tdr 5ss can free up the time for DRG 1Ns for example to dish out very good dps. and so on. And at this point we see comparing 1vs1 does only say so little about anything. You get the 1 vs 1 situation and loss well bad day, you will may get 3 team situations you rip the same build within seconds.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 18 April 2015 - 12:31 PM.

[ChapeL]

My fear, or should I say my preoccupation for the future is this: Let's say we nerf the TW and SRC "because they are head and shoulders above anything the IS can field at the same weight bracket" currently

What happens when the timeline advances to were the IS starts fielding modern battlemechs that are designed to take on a Timber Wolf and win ? Let's face it, the T-Bolt, Orion, Cataphracts and even the Grasshopper were never intended to fight one on one with a 75ton clan heavy. Imagine we get the falconer and Penetrator ( 75tons +375XL ), do we nerf them too ? Where does it end ?

My point: In a video game based on a board game where power creep is a matter of fact, how do we avoid having to bring down superior designs ( of which the Timber Wolf is an example ) so that less effective ones remain competitive ? How thick would we have to lay on the quirks for a Trebuchet to hold its own against an Uziel ( or nerf the latter to get the same result ) ?

Edited by ChapeL, 18 April 2015 - 12:25 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Torgun, on 18 April 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

If we're talking 5SS smurfy says it gets +15 STs. How would that make it as durable as a 90t mech, since it has way less armor and a big CT that is easy to hit especially up close?

I'd definitely not go with SPL since the ERML would give me way more range and be useful in much more situations. I'd most certainly bet on that TW build to take out an 5SS whether close or at range. And the SRM racks don't give the TW the huge ears AFAIK, it's quite small targets compared to TW with LRMs,

So it got nerfed. When did that happen?

Anyhow, prior to the recent quirk change (which both buffed the HGN ST structure by 10 and nerfed the TDR by 5) it was just as duable durable, at 114 IS+A compared to 110IS+A. For a mech 25 tons lighter, that's pretty good.

HGN now has 124 compared to the Thuds 105.
Quirks keep changing.

Big CT? I've never noticed that. Seems rather Awesome like, with large vertical blocks of ST and CT. Half second face times allow for never really looking at your target.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

Not to mention twice the heat generation.

I do not think they are that far apart for heat generation and that TW build has a higher alpha. Yes the SS gets 25% total heat generation. But in smurphy it is starting at 40% Cooling Efficiency. That TW is starting at 46% Cooling Efficiency in smurphy. So you have higher alpha, better able to spread damage and close to the same heat and roughly the same effective ranges. It would just come down to pilot skill. And you can build the TW to work better at other ranges. So at its very best the SS is about as good as a TW at short mid range.

Quote

What happens when the timeline advances to were the IS starts fielding modern battlemechs that are designed to take on a Timber Wolf and win ?

You balance the new mechs to the rest of the mechs in the game as they come out.

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 18 April 2015 - 12:29 PM.

[ChapeL]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 April 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

You balance the new mechs to the rest of the mechs in the game as they come out.

So everything comes out pre-nerfed ?

[CantHandletheTruth]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 April 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

I do not think they are that far apart for heat generation and that TW build has a higher alpha. Yes the SS gets 25% total heat generation. But in smurphy it is starting at 40% Cooling Efficiency. That TW is starting at 46% Cooling Efficiency in smurphy. So you have higher alpha, better able to spread damage and close to the same heat and roughly the same effective ranges. It would just come down to pilot skill.

You balance the new mechs to the rest of the mechs in the game as they come out.

yeah now cut 25% off for the quirks

Its not a contest.

[Torgun]

Kuritaclan, on 18 April 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

I have seen more TDR Sticks with STD engines than cored out TDRs, stop trash talking about accurate aiming spread Weapons on CTs vs quirked shortbeam Wub Torsotwisters.

It's one thing if we're talking about a midrange battle, but up close in a brawl the CT is too big and clearly a vulnerability you'd exploit. It's not trashtalking, I'm pointing out facts.

[Mcgral18]

Torgun, on 18 April 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

It's one thing if we're talking about a midrange battle, but up close in a brawl the CT is too big and clearly a vulnerability you'd exploit. It's not trashtalking, I'm pointing out facts.

You seem to be the only one saying that.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

So everything comes out pre-nerfed ?

Every thing comes out balanced

Quote

yeah now cut 25% off for the quirks

Its not a contest.

That did include the quirks not sure why you cant see this.

[Torgun]

Mcgral18, on 18 April 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

So it got nerfed. When did that happen?

Anyhow, prior to the recent quirk change (which both buffed the HGN ST structure by 10 and nerfed the TDR by 5) it was just as duable durable, at 114 IS+A compared to 110IS+A. For a mech 25 tons lighter, that's pretty good.

HGN now has 124 compared to the Thuds 105.
Quirks keep changing.

Big CT? I've never noticed that. Seems rather Awesome like, with large vertical blocks of ST and CT. Half second face times allow for never really looking at your target.

But still a 90t mech does have considerably more armor than the TDR, so I don't think it's that close in being able to absorb damage.

I had the TDR back when they gifted it in a challenge and that thing's CT was getting hit easily from 35-40 deg angles from the side. Unless they've made a major overhaul of its' hitboxes, the CT is not hard to hit at all. TDR is rounder in profile than the Awesome, so even twisting to protect it takes a higher turning degree.

[Pjwned]

Mcgral18, on 18 April 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

Bam, blanket nerf the Terribad Clams.

Again.

For the third time.


Targeted nerfs, not Blanket Nerfs.

Doesn't change that cXL engines are unbalanced on any mech and that PGI plainly acknowledges the heat penalty doesn't do anything. It's also a better method than picking & choosing mechs and thinking about how best to nerf them with arbitrary methods.

[Mcgral18]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 April 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

Every thing comes out balanced

That did include the quirks not sure why you cant see this.

Smurfy doesn't take quirks into account.

[Torgun]

Mcgral18, on 18 April 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

You seem to be the only one saying that.

Just calling it as I experienced chief.