272 replies to this topic

[Mycrus]

JaxRiot, on 03 May 2015 - 07:20 PM, said:

Wow Seal Clubbing? I dont think Ive heard it called that before. Not sure if its appropriate, but Im going to start using it

you must be new here.

[Molossian Dog]

The one in the background clearly had enough for today.

[Mystere]

Tom Sawyer, on 04 May 2015 - 04:21 AM, said:

This thread repeats itself in many iterations. Perhaps people are burnt out but also CW itself is burnt out

We have 5 CW maps now but the tactic is the same. Drop, defend or rush the gates, defend or rush the gens to get the gun. Unless you have no opposing team. Then you get REALLY bad cheese in attacking landers or static turrets.

The problem are not the maps. It's the fact that we have only two game modes.

[Fireeagle]

Basical:
PG should simply read the suggestion forums and pick the best ideas atm it looks as if they are more busy to create new mechmodels than doing something to improve the game itself.#

Feels as if they try to sell good looking cars without engines and gear...

[Dawnstealer]

I know my unit is just a little burned out from playing Tukayyid. That was a lot of hours and we just wanted to focus on "fun" drops for a bit. Or do some stuff on our own that didn't involve competitive meta builds.

The plan's to be back later this week and I think you'll see the population gradually ramp back up.

[Mystere]

Caustic Canid, on 03 May 2015 - 11:52 PM, said:

So you're basically saying that, given the choice, most people would choose to not play against large organized groups? So the correct response is to not give them that choice?

There is a reason why "exclusive" deals and access are common in retail and "members-only" establishments. They're used to entice people to buy or join. The basic principle behind things being only available in CW is the same.

Fireeagle, on 04 May 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

Basical:
PG should simply read the suggestion forums and pick the best ideas atm it looks as if they are more busy to create new mechmodels than doing something to improve the game itself.#

Feels as if they try to sell good looking cars without engines and gear...

How many times must it be repeated that the people designing and building Mechs are different from the people developing the underlying game systems? Should the furmer stop working and be laid off while the latter catch up?

Edited by Mystere, 04 May 2015 - 06:50 AM.

[Richard Hazen]

I personally think people need to step back and realise what they have. As someone new and with fresh eyes I'm comfortable with saying It's better than what World of Tanks has atm (and WoT seems to be doing very well), the game is superior and I love the map like system, it just needs fine tuning.

Edited by Deimos Alpha, 04 May 2015 - 07:17 AM.

[Tom Sawyer]

Mystere, on 04 May 2015 - 06:39 AM, said:

The problem are not the maps. It's the fact that we have only two game modes.

Hence my we have 5 maps. Now do SOMETHING with them besides slap gates and gens on each. I agree with the dire need for more game modes. Chase a train, prevent a drop ship lifting off, escort a convoy. Something fresh

[Apnu]

Czarr, on 02 May 2015 - 08:44 PM, said:

you can thank PGI for this

they needed to stop 12 mans from pug smashing because the vast majority of players are casual players who pug and are not in a 12 man. They could have created separate queues long ago but they didn't

and now people are leaving and this game's servers will soon be no more, i haven't seen so many people leave a game so quickly since Everquest 2

MWO history repeats. We did this in early OB. Its the reason why we have a solo queue and a group queue in the public queue games for each game mode. We've got buckets of buckets. Its nuts.

Then there's CW, supposed to be bucket-less, but comps keep stomping PUGs and the PUGs leave. Since something like 80% of MWO players are PUGs and casuals, making a game mode for one type of player but then enticing the other to "fill in the slots" is feeing minnows to sharks.

If CW is to ever be a real pillar of the game, it needs a lot of things for PUGs to do separated from organized comps and units. PUGs should know they're swimming shark infested waters and be prepared for it.

Until we have that, we're going to repeat this history while shedding players and paying customers.

Zoid, on 03 May 2015 - 04:23 AM, said:

People in the big units keep screaming about how PUGs should stay away from CW, so I am.

I'm sorry for that. There's a lot of tryhards around here who run their mouths. They want large population CW to find matches but throw hissy fits when casuals show up, and then the tryhards dump on the causuals like they're the problem. They aren't and being arrogant d-bags driving out PUGs from CW only decreases the player population. They're hurting themselves more than they're hurting you. But that's no excuse for being jerks, so I'm sorry you had that experience.

[Apnu]

Tom Sawyer, on 04 May 2015 - 04:21 AM, said:

This thread repeats itself in many iterations. Perhaps people are burnt out but also CW itself is burnt out

We have 5 CW maps now but the tactic is the same. Drop, defend or rush the gates, defend or rush the gens to get the gun. Unless you have no opposing team. Then you get REALLY bad cheese in attacking landers or static turrets.

You forgot spawn camping. Its a thing, and the two new maps have some bad spawn camping points depending on the tech and the attacker or defender role. If you're clans on Hellbore Springs and you make it to the hills at D6, you can spawn camp all the LZs with ERLL, ERPPC and GRs. I've seen it done. If you're on Emerald Tiaga and the attackers get to D3, they can lock down and remove 4 players from the game in a few minutes.

Quote

I know SOME devs read these threads. Some even respond and post. I can also accept the argument that Russ is really busy building the game and does not have time to respond.

But when the primary means of a programing team to respond to the gamers who pay the bills is via an external twitter account or via random online "town hall meetings" something is lost.

There are some REALLY talented gamers here who truly wish to help. Map design, game mode concepts, ect ect. However it seems they just are ignored. Not baiting the white knights in here or trolling the black knights. I just would like to see the devs honestly listen and work with the community.

Ideas about public created maps which are then moved to the testing server. Let the gamers play the heck out of them there. Good ones with no obvious flaws or cheats get moved to the regular rotation. Game mods like huge maps with "beacons" way out that offer bonuses to the team that reach and control them. LIke overhead sats that show the enemy team on the mini map. Or turrets back at the main base that only open and serve the controlling side. Bases themselves that are more than just a giant gun. Hangers, Space Control Towers, Runways, Ammo Bunkers. Instead a "gen" to be destroyed there is a percentage scale of how much the attackers took vs the defenders held.

In time they say steam is coming to MWO. If things are not improved and changed I honestly do not believe many steamers will stick around.

I bought the R2 pack as I want MWO to continue. But things have to improve.

I too would love enhancements to CW games. I'd love to reload my ammo and/or change my drop zone, or have my drop zone move up after the gates are open. And have other objectives. Why not King of the Hill? Or Assassinate the VIP? CTF? These are all staples of team games that have been around for decades and its pretty easy to write some fluff to explain why we're playing King of the Hill in giant stompy robots. But honestly I don't think PGI's done with the core mechanics of CW to be able to add these other features.

[Kain Demos]

Apnu, on 04 May 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

MWO history repeats. We did this in early OB. Its the reason why we have a solo queue and a group queue in the public queue games for each game mode. We've got buckets of buckets. Its nuts.

Then there's CW, supposed to be bucket-less, but comps keep stomping PUGs and the PUGs leave. Since something like 80% of MWO players are PUGs and casuals, making a game mode for one type of player but then enticing the other to "fill in the slots" is feeing minnows to sharks.

If CW is to ever be a real pillar of the game, it needs a lot of things for PUGs to do separated from organized comps and units. PUGs should know they're swimming shark infested waters and be prepared for it.

Until we have that, we're going to repeat this history while shedding players and paying customers.



I'm sorry for that. There's a lot of tryhards around here who run their mouths. They want large population CW to find matches but throw hissy fits when casuals show up, and then the tryhards dump on the causuals like they're the problem. They aren't and being arrogant d-bags driving out PUGs from CW only decreases the player population. They're hurting themselves more than they're hurting you. But that's no excuse for being jerks, so I'm sorry you had that experience.

If they had CW separated into solo/group like the regular queue it wouldn't work--the population just isn't there.

Edited by Kain Thul, 04 May 2015 - 08:14 AM.

[KinLuu]

Kain Thul, on 04 May 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

If they had CW separated into solo/group like the regular queue it wouldn't work--the population just isn't there.

Maybe the population is that low, because the queues are not split?

[JaxRiot]

Kain Thul, on 04 May 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

If they had CW separated into solo/group like the regular queue it wouldn't work--the population just isn't there.

The solo que would probably be pretty active, and the Group que would probably be pretty much like it is.

A lot of casual/solo players actually do like CW, but its just not solo friendly so they avoid it.

But being casual players they probably wouldnt care much about the galactic map

Edit- Im willing to bet that if CW had a PUG only que, that the PUG CW would surpass even the Public ques in activity

Edited by JaxRiot, 04 May 2015 - 08:34 AM.

[Repasy Cooper]

Rogue Jedi, on 03 May 2015 - 11:25 PM, said:

last week over 15,000 people played CW, those on the IS side who were not in 12man groups faced wait times of 10-40 minutes..

That's the price paid for joining the faction with considerably more players because they thought that would give them an advantage. More of them should have switched to clans, they would have found games quicker.

[Ragtag soldier]

speaking as one of the endless pundlania irregulars, CW is no ******* fun if you're not in a group that has a plan. and with no real community building features in the game, no way to get an idea about how a given group fights, what times they're on, their general deposition that aren't "find a group and try to track them down on the forum" there's not any real likelihood i'm gonna join one. CW is build in the hopes that the player base will worm into organize units of its own accord, and i don't want to talk with most of these jerkbags.

Mystere, on 04 May 2015 - 06:39 AM, said:

The problem are not the maps. It's the fact that we have only two game modes.

no, the maps are a serious problem, most of them are predictable and unfun, with at least two out of five having a pretty good rate of spawncamping. it's just that they've got so many other problems that spawncamping manages to fall down the list.

[Chagatay]

Kain Thul, on 04 May 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

If they had CW separated into solo/group like the regular queue it wouldn't work--the population just isn't there.

Actually.....I am not so sure. It would probably be flourishing as solo and certainly more people would play it. The group portion of course would die off....but it is doing that well on its own without any encouragement. Probably the best they can do at this point is just make it like the old public queue a mix of both worlds* (pissing off alot of people i know but change is never easy).

*One 2-4man group and 8-10 PUGs.

Edited by Chagatay, 04 May 2015 - 09:26 AM.

[Mystere]

Ragtag soldier, on 04 May 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

no, the maps are a serious problem, most of them are predictable and unfun, with at least two out of five having a pretty good rate of spawncamping. it's just that they've got so many other problems that spawncamping manages to fall down the list.

Spawn camping being a "problem" is a matter of opinion.

And with regard to the maps, if I were the one to design them, they would be really difficult to assault, which would then be "balanced" by asymmetric drop size and/or weight.

[Apnu]

Kain Thul, on 04 May 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

If they had CW separated into solo/group like the regular queue it wouldn't work--the population just isn't there.

You are right.

CW shouldn't be just one mode, as in the way PGI is thinking. If it is only there to get players to group up for a Invasion or Counter Attack game, that won't sell. 80% of MWO's player base is too causal for that.

They need to expand their view of CW and include multiple modes that satisfy the casual, quick PUG player and the long haul deep strategic thinker player. We should have game modes in CW that are quick to find and play but impact the IS map in some way in addition to longer respawn games with depth.

Perhaps Conquest allows boosts to faction mech prices and/or tech costs upon victory. Like a 1% discount for 30 minutes or something. Whatever it is, something minor, yet has an incetive for the players to play above simple c-bill and MXP. I think the game would be better if we had less buckets and all the games mattered to the IS map some how.

Its pretty normal for Team FPS games to have CTF, King of the Hill, Conquest, Kill the VIP, etc. There's no reason why we can't have that and have them matter.

By doing that CW wouldn't be so much of a ghost town, but by keeping the public queue and CW queues separated, they make players choose to starve one mode for the other.

The players have clearly spoken, they want to find games fast, get space loot, and play/level the mechs they like. They don't like waiting 15-20 minutes for a 30 minute match that has lower pay outs and requirements to bring T1 meta mechs or be ridiculed as scrubs and ROFTLstomped by 12xSTK-4N teams.

There's no reason we can have both and earn LP and feel like we're making an impact for our faction.

Players whine all the time about the COD types playing Rambo in MWO. Well those players have no concept of being part of a faction and what that means. The quickest and easiest game mode in the game un-tethers them from all that. It trains them to be isolated from the faction, devoid of a unit, and ignore the team in any given match.

Teaching players to care about the faction is the first step in teaching them to care about the other 11 players on their team. Making the PQ game modes represent something in CW, making players choose a faction and only drop with that faction will take them a long way towards that team orientated goal.

If all games mattered to CW, CW's population woes will go away pretty fast.

PGI keeps compartmentalizing the game and its the wrong move.

[Apnu]

Chagatay, on 04 May 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

Actually.....I am not so sure. It would probably be flourishing as solo and certainly more people would play it. The group portion of course would die off....but it is doing that well on its own without any encouragement. Probably the best they can do at this point is just make it like the old public queue a mix of both worlds* (pissing off alot of people i know but change is never easy).

*One 2-4man group and 8 PUGs.

I've often wondered if they had players group up in 4, 8, or 12 man groups before hitting a planet on the map, a lot of problems could be addressed. First off they'd need LFG to at least fill a lance, so the PUGs would be forced into an ad-hoc team that can incentivize them to think of themselves as a team member instead of Rambo. Also the MM would have an easier job finding matches. Have a 12 man and an 8 man? find a 4 man and start a match. Its much easier than trying to fill a match with so many 2-12 permutations of team sizes.

Man if we had better in-faction communication tools finding and filling faction teams would be so much easier. Wouldn't it be awesome if I had a 6 man and I could easily LFG for two more Davions to round out a 8 man team?

[Grynos]

To the OP..... The problem with CW is the same one they have had from it's start..... It is nothing more than TDM on a different set of maps where winning a planet means nothing more that a pixel changing from one color to another. In reality, there was no real need to reset the map at this point in CW. PGI keeps messing with how the modes are selected, drop deck tonnage,etc. instead of dealing with the more pressing issues. They have basically said that not much is going to change in regards to the planets actually meaning something anytime in the near future,that feature alone might make CW more interesting to the player base. PGI devs need to go play Planetside 2, look at how taking territories ( In MWO would be planets ) actually means something beside it just changing color, how there are multiple attack lanes which makes faction coordination more tactical.

CW will continue to be played at a minimum because it has no substance. It is not an "end game" mode, it is just another version of the same thing PGI has been doing with new maps and pixel color changes.