407 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Pariah Devalis, on 11 May 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

I agree, it is pointless whining. But if he wants to bring a Highlander to the table, he still can. He claims it cuts down on variety, but I beg to differ. Instead of a highlander, stalker, and two FS9, he could do a highlander, stalker, firestarter, and jenner. Hey, if the deck is not going to be optimized to begin with.... *shrugs*

Most of the time you don't need an optimized drop deck if you are dropping with 12, its not going to matter.

Which is the morale of the whole ******** story. Pugs flock to defend Clan planets and get rolled by 12 mans, and since their numbers don't matter as much anymore (the reason why they were rolling the IS the first time around) they lose planets. It's not complicated. But sure whatever, lower drop deck tonnage.

I guess by lowering variety, I meant that big mechs are less common. I'm a fan of big mechs and not a huge fan of lights so for me it cuts variety, but that is not really a big deal. It is just ridiculous to apply a change that is so far off the mark.

[Bashfulsalamander]

0phialacria, on 11 May 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

Can someone from the IS even adequately tell me what the REAL advantage clans have over you is? You have massive quirk mechs, you all KNOW that a Stalker 4N is ridiculously Meta, along with the firestarter. WHAT exactly are you complaining about?
As sarcastic as this may sound, I really am curious. I feel like I must be missing something that that extra 10 tons really gave you, because WE sure as hell didn't have it. We don't have any advantage except having XL engines that are tougher. Range? Not anymore. Heat? We're hotboxes! Damage? Our lasers take longer to cycle, meaning we can't armor roll like you can. AC's? We all know Clan AC's are terrible, because we miss even one shot out of an AC-10 and we lose base damage. You pop a single shot and get full damage out of all your guns. Your lasers recharge faster, take less time to burn, and generate less heat.

WHAT is the PROBLEM here? Look at the CW map! LOOK AT IT. We haven't taken a SINGLE planet besides Tuk in almost 2 months. 2 MONTHS. What am I missing that makes this such a huge deal? WE don't have flexibility, how come YOU get to?

Well thats because your a clanner that extra 10 tons allowed us to take 2 60 ish ton heavies and a light assault, which could actually compete on the same level as your beloved stormcrows and timber wolves. NOW we could drop assaults, but there goes our atlas ECM.. and lets face it all the other ECM mechs lack firpower and that wont change with the CTF-0x.. so you have quite a bit of an advantage.

[Adamski]

0phialacria, on 11 May 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

Can someone from the IS even adequately tell me what the REAL advantage clans have over you is? You have massive quirk mechs, you all KNOW that a Stalker 4N is ridiculously Meta, along with the firestarter. WHAT exactly are you complaining about?
As sarcastic as this may sound, I really am curious. I feel like I must be missing something that that extra 10 tons really gave you, because WE sure as hell didn't have it. We don't have any advantage except having XL engines that are tougher. Range? Not anymore. Heat? We're hotboxes! Damage? Our lasers take longer to cycle, meaning we can't armor roll like you can. AC's? We all know Clan AC's are terrible, because we miss even one shot out of an AC-10 and we lose base damage. You pop a single shot and get full damage out of all your guns. Your lasers recharge faster, take less time to burn, and generate less heat.

WHAT is the PROBLEM here? Look at the CW map! LOOK AT IT. We haven't taken a SINGLE planet besides Tuk in almost 2 months. 2 MONTHS. What am I missing that makes this such a huge deal? WE don't have flexibility, how come YOU get to?

Clans get a GAUSS rifle that weighs as much as an IS AC/10
Clans get XL engines that are more survivable giving them greater mobility
Clan weapons get greater damage on a per weapon comparison
Clan weapons get greater range on a per ton comparison

QUIRKS bring a select few IS mechs to the Clan equivalent. The STK-4N is the EQUAL to the WHK. STK gets better hit boxes and hardpoint placement, the WHK gets better mobility and flexibility. ETC ETC

The fact that so many Clan whiners think that IS Quirks are so OP is ridiculous and showcases these whiners as switching to Clans in an effort to chase the OP and are disappointed when they didnt find it.

[0phialacria]

Bashfulsalamander, on 11 May 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

Well thats because your a clanner that extra 10 tons allowed us to take 2 60 ish ton heavies and a light assault, which could actually compete on the same level as your beloved stormcrows and timber wolves. NOW we could drop assaults, but there goes our atlas ECM.. and lets face it all the other ECM mechs lack firpower and that wont change with the CTF-0x.. so you have quite a bit of an advantage.

Ok. Explain that advantage. I mean really. Explain it. I don't see it. We have stormcrows and timbers, you have firestarters, ERLL Ravens, and Stalkers with massive laser quirks. WE don't have fun performance enhancing quirks on those timbers. In FACT, we have performance REDUCING quirks on Timbers.

[S E M T E X]

Just throw in a Wolverine in your deck to balance it.

Its fine.

PGI can we stop listening to clan fan boys a bit plz? We need some loooooove.

[Khobai]

Quote

The numbers show that the Clans win the majority of battles in CW events, but because in the week after the map reset they're getting push back the IS gets nerfed? What sort of logic is that?

IS nerf = more IS crybabies = more tears collected = more embryonic fluid for clan babies = more clan pilots = clans win.

[Mosadoff]

So, instead of making something useful to bring CW back to life, PGI implements minor nerf which affects\annoys\pisses off majority of CW population.

Very unwise move in my eyes.

(Ignore my IS faction tag, I'm a mechbay grinding clanner)

[UberStuka]

this is nothing more than a ploy to get the clans out of their home bases. clans are getting reckd right now.

[Adamski]

UberStuka, on 11 May 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

this is nothing more than a ploy to get the clans out of their home bases. clans are getting reckd right now.

Under populated factions used to receive CBill and LP earnings bonuses, but PGI turned them all off for the Tukayyid event.

Now PGI is nerfing drop deck tonnages across the board to attempt the same thing, but instead pissing off any players that know how to balance population or understand MWO gameplay at all.

[Moldur]

As long as devs are keeping their ear to the ground, changes to CW balance every now and again are ok. Nothing of value is lost if something is changed for a short period of time while the effects of the changes are observed.

If something goes terribly wrong because of this, they'll change it back, or make other adjustments (lets hope) seeing as to how they changed it based off (most likely) the input of vocal forum goers, as well as in-game observation.

I'd say the old adage "Be careful what you wish for" or even "the squeeky wheel gets the grease" is applicable here. Part of me feels that 5% of the population can ruin it for the other 95% if they whine a lot.

Anyways, thanks PGI. I wasn't complaining about IS drop tonnage, but certainly won't say anything bad about it getting reduced

Edited by Moldur, 11 May 2015 - 03:53 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Adamski, on 11 May 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

Clans get a GAUSS rifle that weighs as much as an IS AC/10
Clans get XL engines that are more survivable giving them greater mobility
Clan weapons get greater damage on a per weapon comparison
Clan weapons get greater range on a per ton comparison

QUIRKS bring a select few IS mechs to the Clan equivalent. The STK-4N is the EQUAL to the WHK. STK gets better hit boxes and hardpoint placement, the WHK gets better mobility and flexibility. ETC ETC

The fact that so many Clan whiners think that IS Quirks are so OP is ridiculous and showcases these whiners as switching to Clans in an effort to chase the OP and are disappointed when they didnt find it.

Just want to break this down a bit, line by line.

• Clans get a GAUSS rifle that weighs as much as an IS AC/10

Yes. We also have 20-30% less total weight to work with when customizing. Last I checked, no IS mech can take a Clan Gauss, but if we're trading weapons, mind if I stick a few IS autocannons on my Clan mech? Cross tech comparisons do not exist unless you compare the entire picture.

• Clans get XL engines that are more survivable giving them greater mobility

Absolutely true. That said, we do suffer a (minor) heat penalty when we lose half a mech. We also have zero choice in engine size, leading to such wonderful examples of perfection such as the Gargoyle or Executioner. Even a Timber Wolf is over-engined, and could stand to be a little slower to free up room for guns. We trade free tonnage for speed and durability, however.

• Clan weapons get greater damage on a per weapon comparison

They also do equal to, or less, damage per second than IS weapons, and generate more heat. C'mon, man! Look at more than just one value. There are multiple aspects to the balance state involved here. :\

• Clan weapons get greater range on a per ton comparison

Not post quirk, they don't. Optimized quirk/weapon/mech combinations are seeing IS mechs with Clan ranges or beyond, with all the benefits the IS tech has in regard to burn duration or front loaded damage.


The only point of dubious imbalance is the clan XLE.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 11 May 2015 - 04:05 PM.

[0phialacria]

Adamski, on 11 May 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

Clans get a GAUSS rifle that weighs as much as an IS AC/10
Clans get XL engines that are more survivable giving them greater mobility
Clan weapons get greater damage on a per weapon comparison
Clan weapons get greater range on a per ton comparison

QUIRKS bring a select few IS mechs to the Clan equivalent. The STK-4N is the EQUAL to the WHK. STK gets better hit boxes and hardpoint placement, the WHK gets better mobility and flexibility. ETC ETC

The fact that so many Clan whiners think that IS Quirks are so OP is ridiculous and showcases these whiners as switching to Clans in an effort to chase the OP and are disappointed when they didnt find it.

Ok, so 15 points of damage in the time it takes you to do 20, Rifle to Cannon. Because we don't get charge perks, that's not a thing. We have modules for it, just like you do. They still take time. Just like our lasers, which, once again, burn longer. If you shot on-target, gauss rifle to AC-10, IS AC-10 would out DPS our rifle. We have a moderately fast Assault, indeed. You have a stalker of the same tonnage that can fit 3X the armament of it. We only have 4 energy hardpoints on it max. Plus it generates more heat and has not nearly the perks the stalker has. I didn't change over for OP, I changed over because I loved the Clan Books, like Blood of Kerensky. I also loved the way they did things.

[Khobai]

Quote

So, instead of making something useful to bring CW back to life, PGI implements minor nerf which affects\annoys\pisses off majority of CW population.

Very unwise move in my eyes.

(Ignore my IS faction tag, I'm a mechbay grinding clanner)

Theyre trying to implement 4v4. What more do you want.

The problem is groups have scared away all the solo players. They dont want to get stomped anymore. So CW is basically dead now.

Granted a better short-term solution probably wouldve been to give solo players a huge cbill bonus... so even losing would be worthwhile.

Quote

this is nothing more than a ploy to get the clans out of their home bases. clans are getting reckd right now.

This. im sure youll get your 250 tons back once clans arnt getting wrecked anymore.

Quote

Clans get a GAUSS rifle that weighs as much as an IS AC/10

IS get Gridiron though making that a moot point. Nuff said.

Quote

Clans get XL engines that are more survivable giving them greater mobility

Except theyre not more survivable than IS mechs with standard engines. A Stalker is tougher to kill than a Daishi for example. Clan assaults/heavies get better mobility. Clan lights get worse mobility though.

Quote

Clan weapons get greater damage on a per weapon comparison

Yes my CUAC/20 outdamages your AC/20. LOLOLOL.

The only clan weapons that are outright better are our lasers. All our other weapons are either worse than their IS counterparts or worse than our lasers.

Edited by Khobai, 11 May 2015 - 04:13 PM.

[Kaltenn Kell]

As if we needed another example of PGI's favortism towards the Clans. First the Clans are very OP, but anyone who knows the lore expected that. However, anyone who knows the lore knows that the Clans never fought 1 on 1, and yet PGI allows them to do just that. PGI gave the IS a minuscule weight advantage of 10 tons which did not really help that much. And still the Clans continued to rolled up the IS because PGI allowed mercs to join the Clans...which according to the lore the Clans were death on mercs. Finally PGI gave the IS mechs quirks, coupled with the developement of new tactics allowed the IS to give as good as it got. However PGI could not allow that so the gave the Clans armor and internal structure buffs that made them hard to kill and took away the 10 ton weight advantage. In addition to all of that they are giving the Clans a light mech that will take away the only weight class that the IS had an advantage in. Isn't time that PGI just admitt it, that they are Pro Clans.

[WANTED]

No worries here cause I run a 235 deck. I think this is temporary until clans come back from their Event burnout

[Bashfulsalamander]

0phialacria, on 11 May 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

Ok. Explain that advantage. I mean really. Explain it. I don't see it. We have stormcrows and timbers, you have firestarters, ERLL Ravens, and Stalkers with massive laser quirks. WE don't have fun performance enhancing quirks on those timbers. In FACT, we have performance REDUCING quirks on Timbers.

funny i have seen timbers shoot further then my battlemaster 1s WITH RANGE MODS.... but if you insist
First you want to compare meta? clans can take practically anything. dont like your arm hard points.. swap em, so clan mechs can easily turn VERY meta infact they already do.
Secondly timbers are nerfed because PGI knows they are OP, but they dont have a viable solution to restrict it, but IS needs quirks just to be on THE SAME LEVEL.... Lets not get started on ECM thats a very dead horse that i dont feel like kicking in fact this whole argument seems overly repetitive.

[Duncan1dah0]

Bummer.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Hmm... changes, well...

[Reitmeier]

Like I said before: This will change nothing so no need to discuss again about IS/Clan balance.
I am just disappointed that PGI dont sees the real problems with CW (Population Imbalance, low rewards, and so on) and that they think they will change something with this adjustment.

[Bashfulsalamander]

0phialacria, on 11 May 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

Ok, so 15 points of damage in the time it takes you to do 20, Rifle to Cannon. Because we don't get charge perks, that's not a thing. We have modules for it, just like you do. They still take time. Just like our lasers, which, once again, burn longer. If you shot on-target, gauss rifle to AC-10, IS AC-10 would out DPS our rifle. We have a moderately fast Assault, indeed. You have a stalker of the same tonnage that can fit 3X the armament of it. We only have 4 energy hardpoints on it max. Plus it generates more heat and has not nearly the perks the stalker has. I didn't change over for OP, I changed over because I loved the Clan Books, like Blood of Kerensky. I also loved the way they did things.

Yet another thing i hear alot... CLAN weapons take to long to fire.... yeah they do, but they also do more damage and shoot further and weigh less, so you can fit more on. Overall you will still do more damage at further range even with longer burn times. Secondly i see alot of clan pulse lasers just like IS and its not hard to hold them on one spot of the body, but at long range even IS will spread their damage, so stiop trying to claim it take our weapons longer to do damage when they do MORE DAMAGE.....