188 replies to this topic

[XX Sulla XX]

Adiuvo, on 15 May 2015 - 11:37 PM, said:

You're correct, but that they've taken so long to do anything, and that they still haven't touched the Daishi, is cause for little kudos.

They're also nerfing lights for lord knows what reason as well as the Stalker.

I agree it is far from perfect but at least it is a step in the right direction. (Or I hope it is have not seen quirk changes yet.)

Also as your reddit post said part of the problem is not having people in house that play at all levels. The high level players being what is missing.

[The Mechromancer]

luxebo, on 15 May 2015 - 09:56 PM, said:

I want severe nerfs to TBR-A, some buffs to SCR-B, more weapon family/generic quirks for the lights and STK-4N.

SCR should only recieve slight nerfs to either armor, or heat.
TBR should recieve mobility nerfs tbh.

nerfing armor is a stupid slippery slope of arbitrary number games.
SCR already runs bloody hot.
for speed nerfs, see armor nerfs.

[Kilo 40]

XX Sulla XX, on 15 May 2015 - 11:23 PM, said:

balance these mechs so more mechs are viable.

right. nerf the stormcrow and suddenly the nova and the ice ferret are viable. uh huh.

[The Mechromancer]

Adiuvo, on 15 May 2015 - 11:37 PM, said:

They're also nerfing lights for lord knows what reason as well as the Stalker.

maybe because FS9s can basically fire rapid AC20s without ammo.

[_____]

XX Sulla XX, on 15 May 2015 - 11:23 PM, said:

Funny all the top players in the game have been after them to balance these mechs so more mechs are viable.

PGI still wouldn't do it unless it meant more money and mech packs is how they're making money now.

Face it, there's always going to be a top set of mechs and/or configurations that excel at their designated roles. In the top level competitions, the map and rules are known ahead of time and guarantee you that top tier teams will take a very narrow set of configs and mechs to those matches. So if you think they're doing it for "comp players"?

But in order to sell new mechs they have to make them not be obviously worse than the existing good mechs. Let's say the clan wave 3 med/heavy mechs are expected to be as good or better than the TBR/SCR. Do you think they'll have an incentive to nerf those 2? Definitely not nearly as strong.

Edited by BlackhawkSC, 16 May 2015 - 12:19 AM.

[meteorol]

joelmuzz, on 15 May 2015 - 11:54 PM, said:

Lights are a problem which needs to be addressed in a different way, trying to quirk them to do damage like an assault (and some can) was a bad idea.

Have to accept that lights will damage/kill less.
But they do deserve to take home equal pay for an equally skilled game, and to be valuable to the team with spotting abilitys and such.

Fix the system of damage being so important to reward and lights won't need to be quirked up as much.

So how they are going to do that? The current maps and gamemodes make it really hard to change anything regarding damage winning the match.

Adiuvo, on 15 May 2015 - 11:37 PM, said:

You're correct, but that they've taken so long to do anything, and that they still haven't touched the Daishi, is cause for little kudos.

They're also nerfing lights for lord knows what reason as well as the Stalker.

The reason for nerfing the 4n is really above my head.
Yeah, it was a common mech in CW, but that probably won't change because of 85t fitting well and the other IS assaults (Banshee aside) literally suck.
That aside the DW was always head and shoulders above the other assault mechs, and now they nerf one of the very few competitors (that was still weaker) and leave the DW untouched?

Edited by meteorol, 16 May 2015 - 12:13 AM.

[XX Sulla XX]

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right. nerf the stormcrow and suddenly the nova and the ice ferret are viable. uh huh.

Yes nerfing tier one mechs makes tier two mechs viable. And buffing lower tiers mechs makes them viable. Thats why PGI needs to fix the outliers at each extreme first. This seems to be a step in that direction.

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PGI still wouldn't do it unless it meant more money and mech packs is how they're making money now.

Well your statement is true by accident. Balance is good for the game. And if the game works better you sell more mech packs. So in that sense it is true.

By the way on the Dire Wolf. I can kinda see why they did not nerf it even if I think it should have some changes. And that is because for an average player it really is not a dominate mech. They just cant use it to its full potential.

[Kilo 40]

XX Sulla XX, on 16 May 2015 - 12:15 AM, said:

Yes nerfing tier one mechs makes tier two mechs viable.

no...just, no...

The ice ferret and the nova will remain just as crappy, no matter how much you nerf the stormcrow. The summoner is still going to be crappy no matter how much you nerf the timberwolf. nerfs to one mech doesn't change things like hard points or tonnage restrictions on another mech.

nerfing the SC and the TW is not going to make a bunch of new ice ferret and summoner pilots, it will just make a bunch of TW and SC pilots angry, and they'll keep piloting them since there's no other viable option.

[XX Sulla XX]

Kilo 40, on 16 May 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

no...just, no...

The ice ferret and the nova will remain just as crappy, no matter how much you nerf the stormcrow. The summoner is still going to be crappy no matter how much you nerf the timberwolf. nerfs to one mech doesn't change things like hard points or tonnage restrictions on another mech.

nerfing the SC and the TW is not going to make a bunch of new ice ferret and summoner pilots, it will just make a bunch of TW and SC pilots angry, and they'll keep piloting them since there's no other viable option.

Making some mechs less OP and other mechs better is how you get balance. Its not complicated.

[anonymous161]

This is why I'm not gonna buy mechs with real money anymore they keep changing their minds about everything nerf this buff that bleh this is just beta alpha all over again.

[Adette]

joelmuzz, on 15 May 2015 - 11:04 PM, said:

They were already killed, yesterday's hero, keep up.

Only 5S is considered viable anymore and it has short range so not all that great.

The 5SS still has 25% generic laser range, -15% generic laser heat generation, 15% generic laser cooldown. So you can actually build a decent ERLL out of it if you didn't want to do the insane 7 MPL build (which benefits from an additional 25% medium pulse laser range on top of the generic laser quirks)

[XX Sulla XX]

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This is why I'm not gonna buy mechs with real money anymore they keep changing their minds about everything nerf this buff that bleh this is just beta alpha all over again.

Its the reason you should buy mechs. Before quirks a mech was just bad with no hope of ever being good.

[kapusta11]

XX Sulla XX, on 16 May 2015 - 12:30 AM, said:

Making some mechs less OP and other mechs better is how you get balance. Its not complicated.

No, addressing the reasons that make some mechs OP and some underperform is how you achieve balance. I'm yet to see exact and adequate reasoning behind why TBR or SCR are "OP". "SCR has way too good hitboxes" is just an excuse for cross-eyed people. If CXL engine is what makes them too good address that. If huge laser alphas is what makes them too good - address that. The chassis themselves are not a problem.

[Alistair Winter]

Soo... nerfing the TBR, SCR and STK-4N and leaving the Thunderbolt as is? When looking at Inner Sphere energy boats, was the Stalker the only mech that stood out?

I see the RVN-2X is on the list. If they nerf that mech, I'm going to lose my mind. It was one of the worst 35 ton mechs in the game for so long, and PGI was extremely reluctant to bring it up to normal levels. For a brief moment, we had a fun LPL quirk. Then that was removed. And now I guess they plan to send it back to Tier 5, because some jokers managed to cram 3LLs on it.

Dead Eye 01, on 15 May 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

The thing that PGI doesn't understand... is that there will ALWAYS be top tier mech(s).
Quirks just create more problems than solutions.

Quirks certainly have created a lot of problems. But the argument that there will always be top tier mechs is irrelevant to any balance discussion. A realistic goal isn't to make all mechs absolutely equal, the goal is to close the gap. Which they have done, except for a few outliers that they're looking at now.

[Insects]

Kilo 40, on 16 May 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

no...just, no...

The ice ferret and the nova will remain just as crappy, no matter how much you nerf the stormcrow. The summoner is still going to be crappy no matter how much you nerf the timberwolf. nerfs to one mech doesn't change things like hard points or tonnage restrictions on another mech.

They are only crappy compared to SC and TW and the quirked IS mechs.

Bring TW and SC down, start bringing some IS quirks back down, buff the worst mechs.
The gap between best and worst starts to reduce.

[Kilo 40]

XX Sulla XX, on 16 May 2015 - 12:30 AM, said:

Making some mechs less OP and other mechs better is how you get balance. Its not complicated.

you didn't refute a single thing I said.

[XX Sulla XX]

kapusta11, on 16 May 2015 - 12:44 AM, said:

No, addressing the reasons that make some mechs OP and some underperform is how you achieve balance. I'm yet to see exact and adequate reasoning behind why TBR or SCR are "OP". "SCR has way too good hitboxes" is just an excuse for cross-eyed people. If CXL engine is what makes them too good address that. If huge laser alphas is what makes them too good - address that. The chassis themselves are not a problem.

TBR - Perfect combination of speed, hard points, fire power, hit boxes, jump jets. agility etc. It can literally be built to be a tier one mech for any range of game play.

SCR - Again top tier fire power, durability, speed and fire power for its weight class. Really even better than most of the heavies.

As you can see both mechs are so good because of many factors its not one single thing. And when fixing them it will tricky to do it in a way that keeps in viable but not OP and do so for all Elo levels.

[Kilo 40]

joelmuzz, on 16 May 2015 - 12:49 AM, said:

They are only crappy compared to SC and TW and the quirked IS mechs.

nope. they are crappy period. trust me, I watched my K/D ratio tank while trying to level some of them over a period of months. you could take the SC completely out of the game and I guarantee you no one will start using Ice Ferrets. and Summoners won't suddenly be a thing if they got rid of the Timberwolf.

believe me when I say I want to pilot another medium mech besides the stormcrow. There just aren't any others worth a damn right now. hopefull the shadow cat will let me park my SC in a couple of months, but in the mean time it's all I have that's usable.

[XX Sulla XX]

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you didn't refute a single thing I said.

You didnt really say anything that was fact based to need refuting with facts.

[XX Sulla XX]

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nope. they are crappy period. trust me, I watched my K/D ratio tank while trying to level some of them over a period of months. you could take the SC completely out of the game and I guarantee you no one will start using Ice Ferrets. and Summoners won't suddenly be a thing if they got rid of the Timberwolf.

believe me when I say I want to pilot another medium mech besides the stormcrow. There just aren't any others worth a damn right now. hopefull the shadow cat will let me park my SC in a couple of months, but in the mean time it's all I have that's usable.

You understand they can give positive quirks to under performing mechs besides negative ones to OP mechs. And the ONLY thing a mech has to have to be viable is enough of the right kind of positive quirks. A good example is the Thunderbolt no one was using before. Or the Wolverine for that matter.

Any mech can be made viable with the right quirks.

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 16 May 2015 - 01:07 AM.