757 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

xe N on, on 18 May 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

Clan only have lasers as viable weapons ... lol.

My Gauss-SCR and SRM-SCR says no.

Fact is that lasers are quite too easy to use for their benefit. Not only on clan side. Time to nerf them beck to where they belong.

Below PPCs, ACs and SRMs, because those weapon systems require more skill to use.

Gauss Crow is good. (But what else are you putting on it? SRMS?)
SRM Crow is good... right up until you end up attacking a LL stalker laden team that can aim. Those are a damned hard fight even for the "god mechs" let alone the SRM walking stick.

Mosadoff, on 18 May 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

Most annoying thing for me is that IS got nerfed by 2.5%, and TBR by more than 10%...

"Small incremental values" or how it was...

Yeah.. PGI doesn't even claim not to have an IS bias that I can find.

Geaux Tiger, on 18 May 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

Just wanted to point out this gem right here. This. This right here made me laugh so hard I literally had tears rolling down my face.

Truth is often best said in humorous forms.

Alienized, on 18 May 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

resistance 1 is full with good mechs. i cant understand why many are talking bad about them.

It's not that they are bad mechs, it's that PGI is a bad company. They keep killing whales. (Of which I was one.)

Resistance 1 was the first package I didn't buy the max of... (I even bought the bloody Urban mechs for lolz.) but Resistance 1 was the beginning of the end.

W3, I'm still struggling on whether to refund it or not.. I *reallly* love the shadowcat... (like.. it's not healthy) but I am so disgusted at the moment that I'm still considering abandoning altogether.

Edited by Livewyr, 18 May 2015 - 11:18 AM.

[Alienized]

imho, this community is worse than PGI will ever be.
its crying out altho they never played the patch.
most should be out of a premature cry-attack age.
(my daughter was sooo into this.... you could see it in her face before the crying started that it was fake lol, i just had to laugh every time....) thats what i currently see happening.

btw, i just been in a battle with my victor on alpine peaks, then on caustic.
if 2 mechs (raven and thunderbolt) can mount 7 large lasers then you know there is much more wrong than just quirks.
one of the reasons brawling is dead.
too much longrange laservomiting overall.
no only on clan side.

BLR with 4 er large lasers.

there is so much wrong in here than just quirks and ghost heat and builds as above are one of them.
we would not have such problems if there would be a limit to long range energy weapons from start.

[_Kodiak_]

15 v 15 that would let 5 - 11 player teams fight there is a lot of 4 man / women teams out there in que.
15 solo
solo +4 player + 5 + 5 = 15
11 + 4 = 15
three lance + 3 mercs = 15
3 stars
Then we all can share our cultural differences properly.

I think Clan tech is supposed to better then the Inner Sphere tech , in the lore the Clans had 300+ years to perfect Star League weapons systems [which was still better then current IS tech] .

PGI could you give us [the Clans] some IIc variants of some of the current IS mechs for C-Bills would give us more platforms to choose from for varieties sake.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Sometimes I feel like we're wasting our time complaining to PGI. They're going to base their nerfs and changes on numbers, not our comments.

[Magic Murder Bag]

Alienized, on 18 May 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

imho, this community is worse than PGI will ever be.
its crying out altho they never played the patch.
most should be out of a premature cry-attack age.
(my daughter was sooo into this.... you could see it in her face before the crying started that it was fake lol, i just had to laugh every time....) thats what i currently see happening.

btw, i just been in a battle with my victor on alpine peaks, then on caustic.
if 2 mechs (raven and thunderbolt) can mount 7 large lasers then you know there is much more wrong than just quirks.
one of the reasons brawling is dead.
too much longrange laservomiting overall.
no only on clan side.

BLR with 4 er large lasers.

there is so much wrong in here than just quirks and ghost heat and builds as above are one of them.
we would not have such problems if there would be a limit to long range energy weapons from start.

Heaven forbid when this game goes to steam. A great deal of users (though not everyone) there have small attention spans, do not like overly complicated controls (as I read on the Hawken forums, people want to play this game with an xbox controller and rash this game because they can't....), and lets not forget...THE CHEESE ...it's to die for apparently!

Edited by Magic Murder Bag, 18 May 2015 - 11:48 AM.

[conquistadorst]

Alienized, on 17 May 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

nope. they didnt.
they will nerf it after they have some data from this patch. simple as this.

TDR-5SS is godly, not sure which TDR-5SS you're playing. I boat mine with 5 ERLL, the quirks and hardpoint locations make it hands down the greatest sniper in the game. You won't find another like it.

[Alienized]

conquistadorst, on 18 May 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:

TDR-5SS is godly, not sure which TDR-5SS you're playing. I boat mine with 5 ERLL, the quirks and hardpoint locations make it hands down the greatest sniper in the game. You won't find another like it.

im not driving any thunderbolts.
and you are proving why it should get a bloody massive nerf.
no brains required to play.

[Novawrecker]

Kilrein, on 16 May 2015 - 06:40 PM, said:

How exactly is a cooldown reduction of -7.5% a negative quirk? Sure, it's a negative number but being able to fire a weapon more often, in general, is not a negative quirk.

It's not a negative quirk. Go back and re-read the patch notes ... c a r e f u l l y this time and you'll see the why behind it.

Harshaw, on 16 May 2015 - 07:48 PM, said:

It's like people have never played a pvp game before!

Of course not. Many come in here thinking this is Pokemon where one person controls all vs. a PvE scenario

Fluero, on 16 May 2015 - 08:21 PM, said:

.....AND, everyone forgets about the IS dropdeck decrease, lol

We of short attention spans.... ohw... a butterfly.!

IS never needed the xtra 10 tons. Was is nice to have? Hell yeah. But definitely not needed. It wasn't we forgot about it, it's that it was irrelevant, thus no loss incurred.

MechregSurn, on 16 May 2015 - 11:12 PM, said:

I already avoid the stalker...it has good hitboxes, but no special range.

Stalkers' boon wasn't its range quirks.

Locutos, on 17 May 2015 - 07:01 AM, said:

The Dragon 1N Quirks are still untouched

It's an F'ing glass cannon for Pete's sake. It doesn't need to have its quirk touched. The Dragon 1N's issue isn't its quirks, it's the morons that keep ignoring it when they see it on the field. Blow off the torso or the correct arm and it's a dead mech.

Gattsus, on 18 May 2015 - 12:43 AM, said:

They went full nerfhammer on the TBR.

Like it didn't need it? Anyone that thinks so loses ALL rights to ever complain about any IS mech quirk.

[Alienized]

timberwolves will still work very well after the patch.
the thing with percentages is:
25% of almost nothing is not a big change at all.
it just looks like it at the first place.
again, clan med laser beam duration is only 0.17 seconds longer.

i would not be surprised to see some more quirks on IS side beeing cut down or completely removed in near future.
with the nerf of TBR and SCR most quirks on IS will be obsolete and the crazyness might end soon.

[Livewyr]

Magic Murder Bag, on 18 May 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

Heaven forbid when this game goes to steam. A great deal of users (though not everyone) there have small attention spans, do not like overly complicated controls (as I read on the Hawken forums, people want to play this game with an xbox controller and rash this game because they can't....), and lets not forget...THE CHEESE ...it's to die for apparently!

I forgot about that...

Steam: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...

*death*

[uebersoldat]

Sounds like things will be a bit more balanced out there. GG PGI.

[Sevronis]

Helaton, on 17 May 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

I am not against the nerfs, but don't agree with the handling of it.

I am not a fan of quirks at all.

As long as there are quirks, there will be negative fallout and wasted effort to balance the mechs. Someone's time gets spent on this, implementing this, gathering data, and following through with the aftermath. Its better spent on other things. We do not need a 'quirks' albatross hanging on our neck all the time when we make a change on any side that can be polarizing.

When mechs are released, there should be just a few things to worry about:

• Hardpoints (and location)
  
• Amazing 3d/art.
  
• Fluid mechanics. (argh, bunny hopping jump jets argh)

That we have to use quirks to make adjustments on various mechs means what we have is not working, and no matter what manner of patching is done is just a patch. Each time will spark the ire of the community and I'd much rather have PGI developing new maps, new game modes, new mechs in the long run than stuck on old problems. But right now we're trapped in an endless cycle, and to get out of that, its a need to focus on core issues. On trees, you have to prune the branches that would cause the tree to die in the long run.



We have a majority of problems with quirks as weapon quirks. That means that the majority of problems are in weapons. (I don't see anyone complaining about acceleration/speed/arm/torso etc quirks.)

• We have laser meta. That means that the majority of problems is in heat if the meta involves 8-9+ lasers.
  
• Clan ballistics have problems with the spray and pray. (Like an LBX problem but fires in a line problem)
  
• LB #X has problems with effectiveness of spread. (Take the rated range of an LBX weapon and divide it by half for effective range. i.e. LB20X is rated for 360m but is only effective at 180 and less.)
  
• LRMs are just impossible to get locks with the functions of everpresent multiple layers of ECM (Artemis + visual should really override this and allow a lock.)
  
• SRMs are hitreg restricted, but are good weapons enmasse (which is the current problem anyways).
  
• Streaks are probably pretty good on the clan side. (the horrendous cooldown time is a good balancer. Annoying to heavies but a great light shredder enmasse.)

What I'll propose is something different for Clan Mechs structurally. (If I have to add it to features, I'll do that to be proper.)

• Get rid of omnipods entirely. Being able to maximize 13 combined energy hardpoints just means you're encouraging problems, future quirks, future balancing.
  
• Every hardpoint should be of a size. Small/Large/Massive (or any variation there-in) and only fit appropriately sized weapons.
  
• Change clan hardpoints to omni hardpoints that can accept any weapon that is appropriately sized. (Small, large, massive omni hardpoints.) in exchange. Might you see a 12 MG Nova? It's possible.

Mechwarrior 4 was not bad (gasp shoot me), in the way that omni hardpoints worked with controlling weapon loadouts.



Any hardpoint on an omnimech should be able to accept missiles, ballistics, lasers. Players are not allowed to change out the hardpoints. Does this make Clan mechs similar to IS mechs? Yes, and that's not a bad thing and evens the playing field more. We do not need to max out the number of hardpoints via combining Arm omnipod A with chassis B to get Mutant Mech 2015k with 13 combined hardpoints.

Let mechs do the talking through their hardpoints and hardpoint placement, not quirks. Maybe the Summoner and other nostalgic mechs wouldn't be as bad as it is now.

We can't use Quirks as chemotherapy to try to fix problems. We're causing a lot of secondary side effects that may be just as bad as the original problem.

This is a Mechwarrior game. I desperately want it to succeed. But core problems can't be addressed with band-****.

I can agree with this based on my own experience with Clan weapons, but what caught my attention was the latter part about the Omnipods.

To elaborate further, MW4 gave most Omnimechs one or two omni hardpoints. For example, the Timberwolf only had one omni bay in each side torso, with the "ears" fixed to missile only and the arms were energy only. Mektek made a change in their version for the arms to also be able to mount ballistics OR energy, but not missiles (so they also had semi-omni points). However this change was done because there were no 'variants' in MW4, just was to allow different loadouts than used to.

For MWO, it could have been something like this:

TBR-Prime

LA/RA: 2 Energy only
LT/RT: 1 Missile and 1 Omni
CT: keeps the 1 ballistic (dat mgun)

TBR-C

LA: 2 Omni
RA: Ballistic
RT: 2 Omni
LT: 1 Missile and 1 Energy
CT: Still the energy

TBR-S

LA/RA: 2 Omni
LT/RT: 2 MIssile
CT: The fixed jump jet o'course

TBR-D

RA: Omni
LA: Energy
RT: 2 Missile
LT: Missile and 1 omni
CT: (haven't actually gotten one yet so don't remember what it has currently)

TBR-A (A bit tricky to balance with omnibays due to the fact this one is an energy-heavy loadout)

LA/RA: 1 energy
RT: 2 Missile
LT: 2 energy and 1 omni
CT: 1 omni

With a method like this, you still have permanent set hardpoint locations, giving each mech an actual variant feel to it, and not just based on the CT. This may even make it easier for PGI to solve their "how do we make Hero Clan mechs" dilemma. But also hopefully would promote more mixed weapons unless even the canon variant was supposed to be almost boating a type (Like the TBR-A config based on Sarna info).

Edited by Sevronis, 18 May 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[Livewyr]

Alienized, on 18 May 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

again, clan med laser beam duration is only 0.17 seconds longer.

You keep saying that.
A: 1.6725 is disastrous compared to 1.5
B: 4.025 Cooldown is bad compared to 3.5...

Recycle from 5 seconds, to almost 5.7 seconds. That is nothing to sneeze at.

[Alienized]

Livewyr, on 18 May 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

You keep saying that.
A: 1.6725 is disastrous compared to 1.5
B: 4.025 Cooldown is bad compared to 3.5...

Recycle from 5 seconds, to almost 5.7 seconds. That is nothing to sneeze at.

it will be as soon as the IS long range lasers gonna get its deserved nerf afterwards.
it will happen. because it has to happen just like this nerf.
to get rid of all the overdone IS superquirking.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Big Jeka, on 16 May 2015 - 01:24 PM, said:

First you took us 10 tons of drop limit.

Then, humiliated 3 most popular IS chassis in CW.

Why did you do PGI?

IS CW is dead now.

i dont think so.
Its the opposite, maybe it will be playable now.

[Mordecai McTiernan]

I can see why lots of Lasers on a SCR might cause issues.
But the facts remain:

• I can get a maximum of ONE ballistic hardpoint on the SCR (left arm OmniPod of -B or -C).
  
• I can also get a maximun of THIRTEEN Energy hardpoints on the SCR(-A left arm has four / -C side torsos have one each / -B right arm has six / -PRIME head has one).
  
• LRMs are not viable, and I hate them anyways.

I think it is very clear that the SCR is supposed to be a Laser / Energy boat! Why give it THIRTEEN energy hardpoints otherwise?

And if it is for, whatever reason, desired ot it not being a Laser / Energy boat can we please get a few more ballistic hardpoints?

Thanks!

[Alienized]

nope.
look you can mount a gauss and uac20 on a scr.
the nova can mount 2 ballistics.
there you have more.

i also thought clan ballistics suck?!? (which they actually dont)
you can drive it as a mixture of laser/missile or laser/ballistic or laser/ballistic/missile.
what else do you want more?

[Mordecai McTiernan]

Alienized, on 18 May 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

nope.
look you can mount a gauss and uac20 on a scr.
the nova can mount 2 ballistics.
there you have more.

i also thought clan ballistics suck?!? (which they actually dont)
you can drive it as a mixture of laser/missile or laser/ballistic or laser/ballistic/missile.
what else do you want more?

Just wanted to point out the ridiculessness of the hardpoint distribution.
I'll go for SRM + a few C-ER-MLAS. And if I miss the Lasers too much I have a Sparky that plays much the same as a SCR and has cool Laser quirks and JumpJets to boot

As CW seems mostly dead anyways it seems not to be such a big loss.

[ScarecrowES]

Ive been thinking more and more about this patch and the tbr and scr quirk changes, and the more i think about it the less effective I think it will be. Let's say the goal is to reduce the effectiveness of laser boats on those chassis. Just how are laser boats typically used on 99% of battles? The pop out of cover, vomit red, green, and blue, and pop back into cover to cool off. It's not like these mechs are out there fighting in the middle of a brawl doing slow and steady damage. The heat is too much to handle in a stand up fight. They just aren't used that way.

So... how exactly is adding some relatively minor beam duration and cool down hurting a build that's going to spend much of its time after firing recovering behind cover anyway? They have to spend that much time and more chilling out just to bring built up heat down to fire more volleys. In the end, this sorta change will have little practical effect on how these mechs are built and used. The meta, ultimately, will remain unharmed.

What builds will really feel the impact of these changes are the majority of those that are non-meta. so few people actually run meta builds anyway. Outside your dedicated groups roling 12-mans against pugs, you really never see meta builds. Most players simply run what works for them. Those are going to get hit the most, while the meta builds will hardly feel it at all unless somehow they're caught out in the open... in which case they should be no worse than other optimized builds, right? Its such a pointless change.

[Ceneakor]

Dreh, on 18 May 2015 - 05:23 AM, said:

I suggest people get on twitter and flood @MechWarriorF2P and @russ_bullock with their displeasure, maybe with their phones beeping all day they might do something, because it is evident they do not read their community forums

My inner Blakist would say that a co-ordinated negative campaign on gaming sites/blogs/steam generating plenty of negative publicity close to the steam release could work well. Nothing like a sharp stick nuke in the ribs to wake some people up.

Edited by Ceneakor, 18 May 2015 - 01:46 PM.