757 replies to this topic

[ForceUser]

Huge difference between complaining about a nerf and complaining about a broken mechanic. Sorry if you can't see the difference, I can draw you some pictures if it'd help

Edited by ForceUser, 16 May 2015 - 07:57 PM.

[DebaucheryNShenanigans]

grendeldog, on 16 May 2015 - 07:26 PM, said:

EDIT: Also, I enjoy CW. But nobody on the clan side is going to play that anymore. So thanks PGI for stabbing your own 'talked-up' game mode in the back.

True Dat..!
CW is dead, and their bedroom playmates -MS- killed it.... BUST them up!!! and people might see a fair fight in progress they can join in on... instead of being baby seal clubbed.

NUMBERS and POPULATION are a significant issue, but clubbing baby seals by 12 mans is another. no-one wants to get stomped repeatedly.

AS for QUIRKS..... lets see the vindicator get decent quirks to hold up to a STRMCRW....

DOUBT it.

blackjack WITH HIGH MOUNTS gets SUPER quirks, and poor VINDI with low arms, gets pooped on.

THIS is a serious under consideration of quirks and mech design.

AS it stands, SIB is actually a worst quirked and hardpointed mech than regular ol' C-Bill vindis... which are garbage too...
NOT worth my MC.

and while that discrepancy exists.... MWO is biased in MANY WAYS.

[Asmosis]

warner2, on 16 May 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

How does this work, do they add up? If I have a Storm Crow with 2 prime arms with 4 ERML is that 6% + 6% = 12% increase to laser duration?

So then if I ditch one of the prime arms (put on an arm with no duration penalty, like the C) and use an A arm instead (still 4 ERML) then now that's only 9% increase to duration?

None of this makes a whole lot of sense to me, really. The prime arm can take lasers so it receives negative laser quirks? That's like giving the Awesome negative PPC quirks. Wouldn't a 'mech with energy slots do better at using energy weapons? It's all getting a bit nonsensical.

Probably it'd be more intuitive to nerf the Storm Crow and Timer Wolf in other ways like mobility or something.... Change the stock engine (make it smaller) seeing as it's the large engine that gives them the mobility in the first place? How about changing the other clan 'mechs that are bad because they are stuck with small engines or standard structure so that they actually have a better engine or endo-steel?

It's almost as if the very foundation of the way the clan 'mechs are balanced is broken. Fixed engine size, structure and armour type, are they really all based on stock load-outs? Battletech, it's broken. Probably best not to allow the usefulness or otherwise of a clan 'mech to be based on it's stock load-out.

Nerfing beam duration just feels lazy. Lazy, like ghost heat.

I don't know if its possible to do or not, but clan omnimech quirks should apply *SPECIFICALLY* to the weapons in that omnipod, only.

Got a pod with 5 laser hardpoints? give it a duration penalty. Got a pod with only one hardpoint? give it a buff of some sort that doesn't apply to the other omnipod locations.

[Past]

When they flushed the negative quirks back when they were brought in with the mindset to bring under performing mechs up scratch not the other way round I thought that was good idea now they have reversed that and again made things more complicated.
I don't mind if they want to promote other loadouts but when weapon modules only sell for 50% of the purchase price this kind of stuff is just pain annoying how about you guys give weapon modules something like an 80% sale price so adjusting every time you pull this stuff isn't a big waste of my playing time.

[DebaucheryNShenanigans]

.....AND, everyone forgets about the IS dropdeck decrease, lol

We of short attention spans.... ohw... a butterfly.!

[M A S E]

Does the fix to the DWF's and WHK's also relate to their feet doing that awkward twitch in the mechlab? It's kind of funny to see but it could use a fix.

Edited by M A S E, 16 May 2015 - 08:30 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

If you chase the meta, the price you pay is keeping ahead of nerfs and buffs.

You knew this was the risk you were taking when you chose to chase the meta - some things considered OP will get the nerf bat, some things considered underpowered will get buffed. You should expect this every patch. And adjust accordingly.

I'm all for chasing the latest meta, but its hypocritical to complain when it eventually gets nerfed.

[grendeldog]

I dunno. All the bitchin about everything by the community, all the terrible balance fails by PGI, all the gift store money grabs...

Bleh. No more MWO forum cruising for me for a few days for sure.

[KursedVixen]

Elizander, on 16 May 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

The salt mines shall be very prosperous in the coming weeks!

I still think that PGI needs to add a threshold setting to their quirks where first (x) weapons are not affected and if you put more than (x) then it either kicks in for all or only for the additional weapons. It's like the quirk version of... Ghost Heat.

That way regular and reasonable loadouts aren't penalized as much.

I like the stalker changes though. My 4N has 2 LL 4 ML and 3 SRM4.

you know I'd go for that.

I don't even use meta as far as I know I make builds that I can use and now I'm paying for the nerfs on meta that effect my builds that as far as I know are not meta.

The cooldown wouldn't be a problem if they didn't add the duration on.

The meta is the meta there will always be meta balance should be based on mech themselves not soley on the pilots at the top. PGi is going about balance wrong if they don't figure it out soon they may not have a game not to mention by basing their balance on an ever changing playerbase instead of a mostly static gamebase they have sucked themselves into a blackhole of infinite balancing.

it really doesn't help that they pretty much nerfed all clan lasers and then increase the heat on the er-medium.
PGI Iloogical Logic: let's increas the heat on the clan medium laser now that we've removed the range which in reality would be the reason for the extra heat.

Edited by KursedVixen, 16 May 2015 - 09:01 PM.

[Uncle Totty]

Fenrisulvyn, on 16 May 2015 - 08:50 PM, said:

If you chase the meta, the price you pay is keeping ahead of nerfs and buffs.

You knew this was the risk you were taking when you chose to chase the meta - some things considered OP will get the nerf bat, some things considered underpowered will get buffed. You should expect this every patch. And adjust accordingly.

I'm all for chasing the latest meta, but its hypocritical to complain when it eventually gets nerfed.

It is not just the meta taking hits from this.

[Dermot Von Jankmon]

I remember when WoW used to nurf classes every other patch day and buff others. Back when I PVPed as an Arms warrior. I loved hearing people whine about nurfs and buffs back then cause its the same now with mechwarrior. A lot of the people whining now cause of the nurfs were whining only a few weeks ago about something else. I just sat here fighting clans in my Hunchies and spiders the whole time. Were there mechs that were better? Yeah, but it made me push myself harder and try to be a better pilot. Just like when in WoW when my class got hit with the nurfs I played harder. Stop whining, Adapt and Overcome.

[Templar Dane]

Sereglach, on 16 May 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

Excellent moves, for the most part. Really need to start reigning in all the superquirking that's going on and remove weapon quirks from mechs that just don't need them. Hitting the mechs that didn't need as many quirks in the first place is a good spot to start.

However, I say be VERY wary of putting positive quirks on certain Clan Supermechs because they don't have as many hardpoints on certain omnipods. Put negative quirks on the omnipods with lots of hardpoints and no quirks on the "underperformers". As it is you've already got competitive players building lopsided shielding builds and using those positive quirked omnipods from the "underperformers" to get the advantages for the more ideal, large hardpoint omnipods on their weapon side.

I say again and reiterate my points. The first phase for quirking a mech should be exclusively agility, structure, and armor buffs. Singular modest weapon quirks (like -heat gen or +range) should be used between solid mechs that just have similar variants (like I've outlined already for the Firestarter). Multiple modest weapon quirks should ONLY be used for severely underperforming mechs that need the help.

Not every mech needs weapon quirks. "Superquirked" mechs/variants shouldn't exist, period. All quirks should also be more lore friendly for builds, as well, while giving a larger spread of 75/25 generic/specific (which specific should be family oriented -like AC/10 family- instead of one exclusive weapon system -like LBX/10-) instead of the current 50/50 split. That will encourage more variety while giving people who stick with a more "lore friendly" build a slight edge, but not a major edge.

So Summoner/Mad Dog/Mist Lynx/Ice Ferret don't need any quirks?

Ang3lsDem0n, on 16 May 2015 - 06:37 PM, said:

The TBR and SCR are not the "Only" good clam mechs out there. The other mechs are not Bad, It is just that you are bad with them is what I say. If you actually take the time and play with other clan mechs, you can make any clan mech work. To bring out the full potential of the other clan mechs you'll need to learn to change your battle tatics and how you engage in certain situations.

DRG-1N is straight up better than any clan mech. It has the firepower of a dakka whale/king crab. It's 60 tons.

Yeah sure you can make any mech work, but meta mechs are meta for a reason, they're just plain better.

Edited by lordtzar, 16 May 2015 - 09:10 PM.

[conquistadorst]

This whole quirk systems seems like quite the Sisyphean effort. Didn't PGI just say they would do slow, small adjustments to quirks from now on? Yeah, about that... Didn't Russ say they would improve Clan ballistics to encourage their use (because they're quite silly as they are now) like halving their projectile count? Yeah, about that...

I think *if* their Timber and Storm nerfs were cut in half, Clan ballistics improved, and somehow didn't mysteriously pass on nerfing on the Thunderbolt, I think this quirk pass wouldn't have been half bad! Oh well, guess not. In the mean time perhaps I should invest in more Thunderbolts, we've got about a month before the next quirk pass. They seem awfully slow on making these quirk passes. I can only speculate what the heck takes them so long.

Sure, these changes are a bit underwhelming, but they aren't bad enough to make me stop playing the game like everyone is crying about. However the lack of people on CW for a timely match, organized unit pub stomps, and lack of new content certainly is working its way there rather quickly. I know PGI probably thinks the pub stomps are probably "OK, for now" since everyone gets to occasionally partake in them so to speak. But the truth is, I'd much rather lose 10 very close games than win 5 and lose 5 by landslides each time. It gets old.

[KursedVixen]

I think the timberwolf is the only clan mech that needs no quirks.

[Summon3r]

In lieu of this does anyone know if it's possible to get a refund on wave 3?

[KursedVixen]

E-mail support if you really want a refund. As for me I am gonna take my wine and cheese and see how this rolls out.

[T R 0 U B L E]

I'm not one to complain, in fact this is probably my first time posting. But this is freaking BS and everybody knows it. It's not easy facing IS quirks as it is. But adding a second to cool down to a laser build is just BS. Especially considering Clan ballistics suck ass. I don't know why PGI is trying to piss off their paying player base. Cause if this is what you plan to do with Wave 3 mechs down the road I'll be wanting a refund. Stupid ****** decision that will depopulate CW even more.

[Templar Dane]

KursedVixen, on 16 May 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

I think the timberwolf is the only clan mech that needs no quirks.

The timberwolf and stormcrow are good. It's a combination of having being fast, having endo and ferro, plus having flexible omnipods and good geometry.

Almost all of the other clan mechs are pretty meh because they lack one or more of that combination.

Summoner doesn't have the tonnage to work with or the hardpoints to boat anything. The vulture feels like it's 15-20 tons lighter when it comes to survivability, it's hitboxes really need some work. Blah, even thinking about the bad ones puts me in a bad mood.

Three good mechs does not a lineup make.

[Sereglach]

lordtzar, on 16 May 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

So Summoner/Mad Dog/Mist Lynx/Ice Ferret don't need any quirks?

Do I say that anywhere? No. Do you want to jump to conclusions and/or instigate an argument and/or troll? Sure seems that way.

I specifically said that large hardpoint omnipods should receive negative quirks while lower hardpoint omnipods should receive no quirks as a baseline.

I specifically said that you do not want to make "super-quirked" mechs. Ever. Period.

I specifically said to start with armor, structure, and mobility/agility buffs to boost most underperformers (which are that way because of hitboxes or lower amounts of hardpoints).

I specifically said that if you have many variants that are similar/same in hardpoints to apply a single modest quirk to differentiate them. Using the Firestarter example I've outlined in the quirks thread: K-Heat Gen, A-Cooldown, S-Range, H-Beam Duration, and E-MG RoF. That gives all the similar variants a unique feel without overquirking them.

I specifically said, also, that you take the most underperforming mechs and give them a couple of modest (again, no "superquirking") weapon buffs on top of the armor, structure, and agility buffs to bring them up to par.

Nowhere in that did I say that those mechs shouldn't receive quirks.

lordtzar, on 16 May 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

DRG-1N is straight up better than any clan mech. It has the firepower of a dakka whale/king crab. It's 60 tons.

Yeah sure you can make any mech work, but meta mechs are meta for a reason, they're just plain better.

It's one of the "Super-quirked" and shouldn't exist in its current iteration. I fully believe it should receive a nerf on the weapon quirks and receive better armor, structure, and agility buffs to compensate (especially for its HUGE CT snout). No mech should be firing a pair of AC/5s virtually as fast as an unquirked mech can fire an AC/2.

Same goes for mechs like the Huginn with the extreme SRM/4s, and the various mechs that have such huge duration buffs that they're turning lasers into pinpoint Front-Loaded-Damage weapons, etc., etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weapon buff quirking is getting out of hand and needs to be reigned in. The more you buff things, the more power-creep will happen. The more power-creep happens, the lower Time-To-Kill gets. The lower TTK gets, the less fun people can have with the game.

However, if you focus quirks on armor, structure, and agility/mobility, then you can start increasing TTK by getting the lesser mechs able to go toe to toe with the top tier mechs out of sheer endurance. Little-to-no weapon quirks needed.

After all, what are the biggest complaints about the most underperforming mechs? Typically it's hit-boxes (Dragon, Awesome), Lack of Hardpoints/weapons potential (Thor/Summoner, Commando), or too frail for its class (Locust, Koshi/Mist Lynx). Give them the quirks to hold out in an endurance fight by either taking the hits or outmaneuvering the enemy or a combination of the two.

I'd list ammo quirks as another one to add to that list of starting points, for extremely ammo dependent mechs, but we don't have that quirk, yet. However, once we do have it, it should be added to the roster of "starting point quirks" for the extremely ammo dependent mechs.

Edited by Sereglach, 16 May 2015 - 09:44 PM.

[Texas Merc]

lordtzar, on 16 May 2015 - 09:35 PM, said:

Three good mechs does not a lineup make.

Yes it does.