309 replies to this topic

[Neutron IX]

Nightshade24, on 19 May 2015 - 07:54 PM, said:

you bought 650 dollars worth of content for 500 dollars, that's 150 dollars that would have been spent otherwise on the same goods if not for the deal.

Tell me in what universe 650 = 500. last time I checked only 650 = 650 and 500 = 500.

That is actually a point that I will agree with Reptilizer on.

I believe the intention of his quote is as follows (and believe me, this is what I tell my Grandmother who lives at home alone every time she tries to buy way more food than she can possibly eat simply because it's "on sale")...

Buying something that is on sale, does not save you near as much money as simply not buying it at all.

Granted, if it's something with tangible value, that represents a solid investment that outweighs what you actually spend, or if it is a purchase that you actually truly need, things may change a bit, but you get my drift.

[Nightshade24]

Rip Snorgan, on 19 May 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

That is actually a point that I will agree with Reptilizer on.

I believe the intention of his quote is as follows (and believe me, this is what I tell my Grandmother who lives at home alone every time she tries to buy way more food than she can possibly eat simply because it's "on sale")...

Buying something that is on sale, does not save you near as much money as simply not buying it at all.

Granted, if it's something with tangible value, that represents a solid investment that outweighs what you actually spend, or if it is a purchase that you actually truly need, things may change a bit, but you get my drift.

I can imagine quite a lot of people who would like a gold mech package or just the warhawk package.

If you want to go to the extreme of "not spending any irl money on this game" because no matter what product in said game it won't benifit your life directly as say buying clothes, firewood, or food. Then you have a game that gets no money because it's free to play and thus economic crisis on PGI's end.

To many people there is value in these things here. Golden mech, granted, is a luxury item. But it isn't a waste of money/ over priced. I can think of many more things online that is over priced... like an AP that gives you 1 jpeg image of a gem that's over 10,000 dollars I think it was for that app...

[Ridir Semii]

Nightshade24, on 19 May 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

I can imagine quite a lot of people who would like a gold mech package or just the warhawk package.

If you want to go to the extreme of "not spending any irl money on this game" because no matter what product in said game it won't benifit your life directly as say buying clothes, firewood, or food. Then you have a game that gets no money because it's free to play and thus economic crisis on PGI's end.

To many people there is value in these things here. Golden mech, granted, is a luxury item. But it isn't a waste of money/ over priced. I can think of many more things online that is over priced... like an AP that gives you 1 jpeg image of a gem that's over 10,000 dollars I think it was for that app...

yea, something like that, sold 3 and got shut down by Apple... DUMAS... why would you do that?!?!?!?!
O.o

Edit: not you Nightshade, I wasn't implying you were the DUMAS that bought that app...

Edited by Uminix, 19 May 2015 - 08:29 PM.

[Neutron IX]

Nightshade24, on 19 May 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

I can imagine quite a lot of people who would like a gold mech package or just the warhawk package.

If you want to go to the extreme of "not spending any irl money on this game" because no matter what product in said game it won't benifit your life directly as say buying clothes, firewood, or food. Then you have a game that gets no money because it's free to play and thus economic crisis on PGI's end.

To many people there is value in these things here. Golden mech, granted, is a luxury item. But it isn't a waste of money/ over priced. I can think of many more things online that is over priced... like an AP that gives you 1 jpeg image of a gem that's over 10,000 dollars I think it was for that app...

Oh, I certainly don't disagree with you on that point. Was simply trying to clarify what I believe Reptilizer meant with his quote that you'd quoted. And also that at large, while I don't agree with him on the "YES" vs "NO" thing here, I've found that particular statement he'd made, to be of value when considering the large number of "special offers" we're hit with on a constant basis all around us in every day life.

It's the whole "Wow! Cheesburgers are 3 for a dollar! What a great deal!" syndrome, when the reality is, a single cheeseburger from the same menu is actually a cheaper purchase, and you don't really clearly benefit generally, from eating three cheeseburgers anyhow, "haz" them or not.

The flip side though, I certainly don't care how other people spend their money. Point of fact, my vote on this would hopefully encourage/enable them to spend even more of it, and I sincerely hope that they will.

Also, unrelated, but since you bring them up, the "I'ma gunna TK the first Gold mech I see!!!" crowd are a prime example of another group I wholeheartedly disagreed with.

[Apnu]

Uminix, on 19 May 2015 - 08:28 PM, said:

yea, something like that, sold 3 and got shut down by Apple... DUMAS... why would you do that?!?!?!?!
O.o

Edit: not you Nightshade, I wasn't implying you were the DUMAS that bought that app...

We call people Alexandre Dumas now?

[Neutron IX]

Apnu, on 19 May 2015 - 08:34 PM, said:

We call people Alexandre Dumas now?

Great, speaking of being susceptible to marketing ploys...NOW I'm craving a...

[Nightshade24]

Rip Snorgan, on 19 May 2015 - 08:30 PM, said:

Oh, I certainly don't disagree with you on that point. Was simply trying to clarify what I believe Reptilizer meant with his quote that you'd quoted. And also that at large, while I don't agree with him on the "YES" vs "NO" thing here, I've found that particular statement he'd made, to be of value when considering the large number of "special offers" we're hit with on a constant basis all around us in every day life.

It's the whole "Wow! Cheesburgers are 3 for a dollar! What a great deal!" syndrome, when the reality is, a single cheeseburger from the same menu is actually a cheaper purchase, and you don't really clearly benefit generally, from eating three cheeseburgers anyhow, "haz" them or not.

The flip side though, I certainly don't care how other people spend their money. Point of fact, my vote on this would hopefully encourage/enable them to spend even more of it, and I sincerely hope that they will.

Also, unrelated, but since you bring them up, the "I'ma gunna TK the first Gold mech I see!!!" crowd are a prime example of another group I wholeheartedly disagreed with.

Yea, it's different when it comes to food and when it's a product that will be playable and benifit you in game up until the game is no longer supported which can possible be 10 years from now as it's the latest and main reboot of our beloved MW franchise in an amazing multilayer with slightly inexperienced devs, but mean very well and are progressing.

500 dollars (650 of content) for the next 10 years is a huge save, lets assume an average person buys 6 games a year all around the 50-80 dollar margin (or dlc's/ micro transactions). that's about 300 to 480 dollars per year, 600 to 960 for 2 years, 1,200 to 1,940 for 4 years, 3,000 to 4,800 for 10 years. It is quite possible this game alone can satisfy a persons gaming needs for 10 years (MW4 mercs satisfied mine for over a decade...)).

So yea, I would buy the golden mechs, but I am more then happy for simply buying the invasion mechs and my budget is a lil low. (Also I didn't buy any wave 1... I got hellbringer tier for wave II, bout' to get tier 3-4 for resistance 2, and got overlord for phoenix.)


Also cheeseburgers for 3 dollars would be a great deal here, the Big Mac for eg from mcdonnalds here alone without extras is 7 dollars. But point taken =P



Also the "imma TK gold mechs!" crowd is mainly spineless gutter licking insult to all the senses and the rest of humanities intelligence who are to weak and cowardly to actually CARRY OUT there actions and put it where their mouth is. Because I have never seen a golden mech Tk'ed nor focused fire by the entire enemy team.

Uminix, on 19 May 2015 - 08:28 PM, said:

yea, something like that, sold 3 and got shut down by Apple... DUMAS... why would you do that?!?!?!?!
O.o

Edit: not you Nightshade, I wasn't implying you were the DUMAS that bought that app...

meh ,they may not be dumb, there are people out there who have the ability to spend millions on silly things and such...

You do know there is like million dollar pizzas out there right? there is a reason they are still in business and that is not because they only had one customer xD

[Reptilizer]

Nightshade24, on 19 May 2015 - 07:54 PM, said:

you bought 650 dollars worth of content for 500 dollars, that's 150 dollars that would have been spent otherwise on the same goods if not for the deal.

Tell me in what universe 650 = 500. last time I checked only 650 = 650 and 500 = 500.

In my universe i spent 500$ when i spent 500$.
Makes 500$ less on my bank account.
Did not save nothing...

But apart fom this semantics, the fallacy lies in buying stuff you would not have WITHOUT the deal. If the deal is the reason for buying, you did save nothing. You just would not have bought the goods. You can not save on stuff you would never have bought without "the deal".

Edit: Snorgan beat me to it i see

Edited by Reptilizer, 20 May 2015 - 01:56 AM.

[Nightshade24]

Reptilizer, on 20 May 2015 - 01:54 AM, said:

In my universe i spent 500$ when i spent 500$.
Makes 500$ less on my bank account.
Did not save nothing...

But apart fom this semantics, the fallacy lies in buying stuff you would not have WITHOUT the deal. If the deal is the reason for buying, you did save nothing. You just would not have bought the goods. You can not save on stuff you would never have bought without "the deal".

Edit: Snorgan beat me to it i see

Okay, then lets look at it this way.

Every invasion version of a mech is a Hero mech.
Every gold mech is a limited time hero (ie limited time grid iron).

Each cockpit item, colour, paint job, war horn, premium time, early bonuses, etc. and lets throw in the atlas and king crab loyalties as basicly anyone who got the golden mech durring peak sale got these 2 mechs.

We basicly got around 800 dollars now of content that could be substituted for a similar purchase (in thoery, in practical there is no clan hero mechs yet but it will arive soon).



Also a point to your first min paragraph wouldn't that statement basically mean you never save money? as if you spend X money you only get X money and thus no such thing as specials/ deals / saves. With that grumpy cat logic I can't really alter your opinion on that. But it's still a bargain either way. Refuse to take advantage of the correct situations and deals and you will be missing out on a lot in life.

[oldradagast]

N0MAD, on 19 May 2015 - 06:01 PM, said:

So brother are you married or have a significant other half?
Since by your post you seem to have no regard for integrity or loyalty, is it ok for them (your other half) to now go sleep with whoever? because you know the marriage Cert or the understanding you have was only ink or words.
Please go tell him/her, that you are going to sleep around because you know that verbal/written agreement was only ink/words, see how that goes for you..

If you can't tell the difference between marketing clap-trap - which is all the "never again offered!" was - and an actual legal document covering something as important as marriage, then the world must be very depressing for you. No doubt you rage every day at every company out there with their monthly "best deals ever" and "never again will you see prices this low!" - until the next sale.

Also, anyone who bought early still got something out of it: the privilege of having new mechs before anyone else and of having whatever "special" prestige came with being a Phoenix buyer for about 2 years (assuming they do re-release them.) Quite frankly, that's a lot longer than most "never again offered / best deal ever!" promises are kept in the marketing and business world.

But, no - be my guest and whine about how PGI wants to offer something to make much needed money. And then whine some more when the servers shut down and your "very special' Phoenix mechs are rendered worthless and non-existent. What type of genius would risk the existence of his own "special toys" just to prevent somebody else from having them because... they're "special" - unreal!

Edited by oldradagast, 20 May 2015 - 03:10 AM.

[Wildstreak]

oldradagast, on 19 May 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

Let them sell them. May as well keep the servers on a few months longer or delay Clan Wave 4 and the inevitable nerfs of older mechs that will come with it.

I see they are calling it Clan Reinforcements package, I wonder if that means a change from the omnimechs.

[Ridir Semii]

Wildstreak, on 20 May 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

I see they are calling it Clan Reinforcements package, I wonder if that means a change from the omnimechs.

hopefully, there are some sick clan NON-Omni mechs, and I don't mean just the IIC versions... here is one for you, now that the Nova (Blackhawk) is in production, game-wise.... when will we see the Blackhawk- KU

Edited by Uminix, 20 May 2015 - 10:27 AM.

[Neutron IX]

Uminix, on 20 May 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

hopefully, there are some sick clan NON-Omni mechs, and I don't mean just the IIC versions... here is one for you, now that the Nova (Blackhawk) is in production, game-wise.... when will we see the Blackhawk- KU

The "Blackhawk-Ku" is actually in IS version of the Blackhawk, unless you MEANT "Non-Clan Omnimechs", rather than "Clan Non-Omnimechs"?

Now, if you want to talk sick Clan Non-Omnis, I'm thinking we need some "Kodiak" all up in here...

[Krigherren]

Rip Snorgan, on 20 May 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

The "Blackhawk-Ku" is actually in IS version of the Blackhawk, unless you MEANT "Non-Clan Omnimechs", rather than "Clan Non-Omnimechs"?

Now, if you want to talk sick Clan Non-Omnis, I'm thinking we need some "Kodiak" all up in here...

Mmmmmmmm, Kodiak...

[N0MAD]

Alan Davion, on 19 May 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

Are you kidding me?

Are you freaking kidding me?

You're comparing, fictional, completely non-existent pixels on your tv or whatever, to something as real and tangible as a marriage license?

I've seen some whoppers of posts on this Phoenix issue, but you sir take the bleeding cake.

It's a game, and a business.OldRadagast is right, some of you original Phoenix owners are, for lack of a better phrase, cutting off your noses to spite your face.

PGI needs to sell mechs to pay the people who make all these new mechs we're getting, and to keep the game running in general.

This whole 'exclusivity' thing is ridiculous, and from what I understand, was concocted NOT by PGI, but IGP. Back when all the mech packs were supposed to be one-time deals. But guess what, do you really, seriously thing that IGP would have kept them exclusive?

Look at Star Trek Online for a bit, that game had a ****-ton of 'exclusive' content and was almost to the point of being shut-down before PWE took control. And I know, I was there since STOs closed Beta, and followed it until the point where everything went to **** and I left. Now look what it's become, another cookie-cutter grind-fest MMO where people throw hundreds of dollars into the lottery system known as "Lock Boxes". That's the only reason that game is still up and running.

If something sells, and sells good, then it will be sold again at some point, it's common business sense.

Now, clan wave 1 has been on sale for how long now? A year? Almost two years? Guess what, I bet they are still selling those mechs, and again, that goes back to needing to pay their staff, and keep the servers running.

Tell me something. If PGI stopped selling mechs after Resistance 2, how long do you think it would be before the game was shut down and we had to wait years and years to have another BT/MW game? I'd say less than 6 months unless PGI managed to partner up with another company.

Now, granted that's all pretty extreme rhetoric, but the possibility still exists. PGI needs to sell mechs to keep the lights on. More mechs to sell means we all get to keep playing.

Bring back the Phoenix Project.

Hey i can now do many many official things online, pay bills, banking, poop my son just applied for his tax file number online, there are multitude of things done via pixels on a monitor that are official and legally binding, so?.
Also does integrity, loyalty, values, only depend on the medium?, by your way of thinking telling people a lie on say you phone via a text is not a lie cause you know its only pixels.. sounds legit.

[Ridir Semii]

Rip Snorgan, on 20 May 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

The "Blackhawk-Ku" is actually in IS version of the Blackhawk, unless you MEANT "Non-Clan Omnimechs", rather than "Clan Non-Omnimechs"?

Now, if you want to talk sick Clan Non-Omnis, I'm thinking we need some "Kodiak" all up in here...

no, I was referring to the Clan non Omnis, I just threw in some enticement for IS guys too...

Edit: the KU designation gives it away as a Kurita mech, lol

Edited by Uminix, 20 May 2015 - 05:09 PM.

[N0MAD]

oldradagast, on 20 May 2015 - 03:06 AM, said:

If you can't tell the difference between marketing clap-trap - which is all the "never again offered!" was - and an actual legal document covering something as important as marriage, then the world must be very depressing for you. No doubt you rage every day at every company out there with their monthly "best deals ever" and "never again will you see prices this low!" - until the next sale.

Also, anyone who bought early still got something out of it: the privilege of having new mechs before anyone else and of having whatever "special" prestige came with being a Phoenix buyer for about 2 years (assuming they do re-release them.) Quite frankly, that's a lot longer than most "never again offered / best deal ever!" promises are kept in the marketing and business world.

But, no - be my guest and whine about how PGI wants to offer something to make much needed money. And then whine some more when the servers shut down and your "very special' Phoenix mechs are rendered worthless and non-existent. What type of genius would risk the existence of his own "special toys" just to prevent somebody else from having them because... they're "special" - unreal!

Brother dont be trying to verse me on real world marketing, i was a commodities broker (fancy name for a buyer/seller) for 20 years trading on international markets. Im also a collector, i tend to collect limited run collectibles because i have found these things increase in value over time due to guess what? there was a limited amount made, strange that right?.
I also know the ramifications of selling/buying an article where this article is advertised as having "a certain distinguishing feature" or "a limited edition", you have no idea of the legal ramifications involved in selling a product under those conditions.
Sure when this applies to a product that is of little $ value and being bought by unknowing or un informed whales, not alot is going to happen, and lets face it who here is going to spend tens of thousands of $ on legal action over $100?.
But let me tell you this, if someone wanted to go legal if they did resell the package (original) again with that little sentence attached to the sale description of the package, PGI would lose the legal battle, that brother is a no brainer, in the real world.

[oldradagast]

N0MAD, on 20 May 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

Brother dont be trying to verse me on real world marketing, i was a commodities broker (fancy name for a buyer/seller) for 20 years trading on international markets. Im also a collector, i tend to collect limited run collectibles because i have found these things increase in value over time due to guess what? there was a limited amount made, strange that right?.

I was really hoping somebody would bring up the "collector" angle to this, so here are a few things to think about:

1) Selling the Phoenix mech again does not reduce the resale value of the Phoenix mechs you have because they have ZERO resale value.
2) The presence of extra Phoenix mechs in the game not only doesn't hurt the non-existent resale value of the ones you bought, but it also doesn't diminish their effectiveness. Phoenix mechs don't get a negative quirk based on the number of newly purchases ones or some drek.
3) You STILL got early access to the mechs, and even if PGI does sell these mechs again, unless they offer the new buyers the exact same package with all the goodies, you still got something extra for the deal.
4) In the end, it doesn't matter anyway. Anyone who honestly thought these things were going to be "unique" was kidding themselves. They are less unique than a "limited edition" Franklin Mint collectible, and a 1,000 times less valuable since they are nothing but pixels in a niche game... a game that some folks seem so eager to kill by reducing available products to sell.

Edited by oldradagast, 20 May 2015 - 06:06 PM.

[Neutron IX]

Sometimes I tell my kids things like, "no, you can't go play with your friends today", or "yes, you can come to the store with me"...but...then something happens, like, say their dance classes get canceled for that night, or maybe my wife needs to take them to get new shoes instead, so, I "change my mind".

Does this mean I lied?

I understand many purchased these based off of the idea that they were "only available for a limited time", and otherwise, some of you might have waited to make the purchase, or what-have-you. But I find it to be a sad sort of hyperbole to get so caught up in things like "PGI is going back on their word" over simple terminology that went live when they weren't even completely in charge of everything.

Things changed. They changed their mind. If they were to release the Phoenix packs today, you know they would follow the same model they have with all of their recently released packs, but back then, things were different. To disagree, or to not like their reasoning is one thing, but to call it a betrayal, or breaking of a contract, or to compare it to your wife cheating on you?

It's too much. It's just too much.

Tell me, what contract did we, or they, sign? They said a very simple statement "available for a limited time". And then they asked us how we'd feel if they made them available again. Can we please all just calm down a little bit?

People sell limited editions of things all the time. And then release new "limited editions" of the same thing over and over again. This is fact. It is not illegal. Period. When a brewery releases a limited release 2015 IPA, you know the only thing that they change for the 2016 version? And guess what, they don't poll all the people with the 2015 IPAs aging int heir refrigerators first.

I have no problems with people disagreeing with re-releasing this package. And people are certainly welcome to their own opinions. But, we seriously need to calm down some of the junk that's being tossed around up in here.

PGI could absolutely have changed the "red" on the paint to "green", or something like that, and released a "Phoenix 2015 Pack", changing virtually nothing else, and there would be ZERO legal ramifications. But instead of doing that, they asked us in a poll. If anyone can please point to the legal precedent that covers limited editions of video games, or other content outside of printed artwork (the only thing I know of protected under limited edition laws), and then calmly describe how this could be a potential violation of such, that would be appreciated. But until then...

[N0MAD]

Oldradagast bro, you seem to intentionally miss the whole point, i will put it to me not being able to put it in words you understand, my bad.
Lets simplify.
When you sell something to people and you explicitly say, NEVER again, as part of selling that item (do you agree the word Never was used?), then if you sell that item again you then become dishonest, you have told a lie, circumstances dont make it any less of a lie, honest people live with the circumstances of previous actions, thats what makes us honest trust worthy people..
You are implying that its ok to be dishonest, because if you are not your business may suffer or be shut down.
Any ways bro, i dont own the package, but i do expect honesty in people, old fashion i know...

Im not calling anyone dishonest yet, but if they were to sell the same pack again i think i would be justified in using that word..

Edited by N0MAD, 20 May 2015 - 06:59 PM.