227 replies to this topic

[Nightmare1]

Savage Wolf, on 20 May 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

How does saying yes to reselling Phoenix allow them to resell anything else than that?

One word: Precedent

Savage Wolf, on 20 May 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

If by Phoenix II Pack you mean the exact same pack, but with a "2" added, then yes.

Of course not. That's stupid. I'm talking about a new pack that Phoenix owners can buy too. It can have the same chassis even, but with different variants and rewards (Example, instead of the BLR-1G, 1D, and 1S it could have the 3S, 3M, and 2C). I think that's reasonable. Releasing the original pack, however, is not.

[Roadkill]

Savage Wolf, on 20 May 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

Any action from PGI at all seems to split this community. If simply asking a question can split a community, it's simply an awful community.

Or it's a bad question that shouldn't have been asked.

PGI's actions tend to split the community because they really don't understand their community and don't pay attention. They just keep doing things that they think ought to be right without even attempting to understand how their customers might perceive those actions.

If PGI had a better track record with their customers, it might have been possible to ask this question without causing a problem. But they don't, so it did. And they should have known better.

[Deathlike]

Roadkill, on 20 May 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

Or it's a bad question that shouldn't have been asked.

PGI's actions tend to split the community because they really don't understand their community and don't pay attention. They just keep doing things that they think ought to be right without even attempting to understand how their customers might perceive those actions.

If PGI had a better track record with their customers, it might have been possible to ask this question without causing a problem. But they don't, so it did. And they should have known better.

I'm used to it. The disappointment is common.

The entire thing is relatively transparent... and it's not like PGI couldn't do a variation of the Phoenix Pack that accomplishes the same goal. However, the lack of ingenuity to accomplish this is astonishing (or it shouldn't be for some).

Even just "adding the Phoenix" touches (camo, geometry due to "legomechs", C-bill+LP bonus) to a different variant while offering some of the newer variants would accomplish the same goal.

It's not freaking rocket science here.

Anyways, the poll is effectively over if you go by Russ's twitter. ggclose.

[Savage Wolf]

Nightmare1, on 20 May 2015 - 10:24 AM, said:

One word: Precedent

You keep using that word without realising that it needs context. Saying that this creates precedent says nothing. Does it create precedent that if you ask questions they always answer the same? Does it create precedent that when the Phoenix pack owners are asked something they answer the same?
But yeah, it does create a precedent about future exclusive Phoenix packs. But how does this affect other packs?

Nightmare1, on 20 May 2015 - 10:24 AM, said:

Of course not. That's stupid. I'm talking about a new pack that Phoenix owners can buy too. It can have the same chassis even, but with different variants and rewards (Example, instead of the BLR-1G, 1D, and 1S it could have the 3S, 3M, and 2C). I think that's reasonable. Releasing the original pack, however, is not.

How would that give people the original Phoenix mechs? This solves nothing. It's not even related to the question. That's like saying, "They should just make Resistance IV" which they probably will.

Roadkill, on 20 May 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

Or it's a bad question that shouldn't have been asked.

PGI's actions tend to split the community because they really don't understand their community and don't pay attention. They just keep doing things that they think ought to be right without even attempting to understand how their customers might perceive those actions.

If PGI had a better track record with their customers, it might have been possible to ask this question without causing a problem. But they don't, so it did. And they should have known better.

If the community can't be bothered to answer a simple question then why would PGI be bothered to listen.
Also, this is just the forums. It might not bother the silent majority at all. All the angry ******** are in here. They learned there was a difference back when they removed game modes as hard choices.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadkill, on 20 May 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

Or it's a bad question that shouldn't have been asked.

PGI's actions tend to split the community because they really don't understand their community and don't pay attention. They just keep doing things that they think ought to be right without even attempting to understand how their customers might perceive those actions.

If PGI had a better track record with their customers, it might have been possible to ask this question without causing a problem. But they don't, so it did. And they should have known better.

PGI: Should we do this?
Community:

If the community is given a Yes or No question It will split in half. Why Opinions man!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 20 May 2015 - 10:47 AM.

[Nightmare1]

Savage Wolf, on 20 May 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

You keep using that word without realising that it needs context. Saying that this creates precedent says nothing. Does it create precedent that if you ask questions they always answer the same? Does it create precedent that when the Phoenix pack owners are asked something they answer the same?

I don't think that you fully understand how precedents are formed.

Savage Wolf, on 20 May 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

But yeah, it does create a precedent about future exclusive Phoenix packs. But how does this affect other packs?

It has the potential to effect anything that PGI bills as limited time or exclusive.

Savage Wolf, on 20 May 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

How would that give people the original Phoenix mechs? This solves nothing. It's not even related to the question. That's like saying, "They should just make Resistance IV" which they probably will.

It doesn't include the original Mech variants, which is the idea, and it does solve many problems. It provides a new Phoenix Pack that may interest previous buyers, while also providing many similar features that may interest other purchasers. New, unique geometries that do not duplicate the original pack could be made, along with special Mech bonuses that don't duplicate the original pack.

In essence, it creates a second Phoenix, rising from the first, to capture the attention of the community and provide everyone with an appealing package, not unlike the first, but without duplicating it or the risk of PGI breaking its promise. In short, Phoenix II is a win-win for all.

Why PGI decided to try this approach instead is beyond me. There was no winning scenario for them by pursuing this present course of action.

[Codestar]

Is nobody playing? Mechwarrior is online and time is ticking. Come play!

Codestar

[Sigilum Sanctum]

He basically confirmed the No vote. Please just stop. For the record, I wanted to buy it, but I'm not about to start setting the forums on fire because I can't. Christ you people.

Edited by Sigilum Sanctum, 20 May 2015 - 11:12 AM.

[Nightmare1]

I think I'll be on tonight. Depends on RL. Will defiitely be on tomorrow night though! It's the official start for The Brethen Pirate Periphery Confederation's weekly training nights. I have to be there to run them, lol.

Also, for those who don't know yet, apparently Russ made a Twitter statement to the effect that the pack is safe and will not be re-released. I Googled it here: https://twitter.com/...059718514114560

Edit: Shoot, Sanctum beat me to it, lol.

Show's over folks! Let's stop killing each other verbally and go do it digitally. See you on the field!

Edited by Nightmare1, 20 May 2015 - 11:11 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 20 May 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

He basically confirmed the No vote. Please just stop. For the record, I wanted to buy it, but I', not about to start setting the forums on fire because I can't. Christ you people.

Later in the "thread(?)" He also admits he forgot the vote is going on for 2 more days! Editing is everything.

Nightmare1, on 20 May 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:

Also, for those who don't know yet, apparently Russ made a Twitter statement to the effect that the pack is safe and will not be re-released. I Googled it here: https://twitter.com/...059718514114560

Apnu ‏@ApnuKarnak
@russ_bullock Isn't the poll open till the 22nd?

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock
@ApnuKarnak Yes my mistake

[Sigilum Sanctum]

2 More days when No still has a majority? Its irrelevant Joe. I'll be gearing up my mechlab for wave 3. No skin off my bones here.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 20 May 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

2 More days when No still has a majority? Its irrelevant Joe. I'll be gearing up my mechlab for wave 3. No skin off my bones here.

A lot can happen in two days. So don't count your victory till the 23rd.

The numbers only need to shift 5%.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 20 May 2015 - 11:18 AM.

[Nightmare1]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 May 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

Later in the "thread(?)" He also admits he forgot the vote is going on for 2 more days! Editing is everything.



Apnu ‏@ApnuKarnak
@russ_bullock Isn't the poll open till the 22nd?

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock
@ApnuKarnak Yes my mistake

ROFL, I guess that's par the course. There was an inane amount of miscommunication and confusion when the pack was originally released. Fastforward a few years and we see history repeat itself.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Joseph Mallan, on 20 May 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

A lot can happen in two days. So don't count your victory till the 23rd.

The numbers only need to shift 5%.

You forget that when the poll was orginally announced, it came with the caveat that, even if it was a majority of "Yes" votes, PGI might choose not re-release the pack. Given the immense amount of opposition PGI is facing over this, the "Yes" majority would need to be large indeed to warrant alienating so many of their loyal fans.

[IraqiWalker]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 20 May 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

He basically confirmed the No vote. Please just stop. For the record, I wanted to buy it, but I'm not about to start setting the forums on fire because I can't. Christ you people.

In all fairness, the poll is going until the 22nd. So we'll see what happens by then.

[Kreisel]

• I'm voting yes because PGI is actually bothering to ask me. Many players have been asking for them to reopen the phoenix pack for a long time and this means they are listening. I want to reward PGI for coming to the customers who bought it and asking if it's okay to change it, instead of just caving to the pressure to do so from people who didn't buy it before. It shows respect for the community that they would make it our choice.
  
• I'm voting yes because I have friends who are new to the game who want it and I see no reason to deny it to them or anyone else willing to pay for it.
  
• I'm voting yes because I would have bought the Overlord pack even if it wasn't exclusive.
  
• I'm voting yes because I didn't care at the time I bought it if it was exclusive or not, I just wanted the Reseen.
  
• But mostly I'm voting yes because I thought the idea of ending the sale was stupid in the first place.

Those of you crying it's false advertising and bringing up where they said it would never be re-released would do well to remember, even if we deem those statements a contract it's consider normal, reasonable and respectful behavior to come back to the person who you made a contract with and ask them if it would be okay to change the terms of said contract because you feel it would be an improvement. That is all PGI is doing, they did not change the exclusivity of the Phoenix Pack without asking the people who have it if that is okay, if it does reopen it's because WE choose to share it with other players.

And No votes out of spite to hurt PGI's fiances because you are mad at them is petty, it hurts the game, and hurting the game worsens YOUR experience playing it. In the end the person damaged by such spite is yourself and the players around you.

[Nightmare1]

Kreisel, on 20 May 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

Those of you crying it's false advertising and bringing up where they said it would never be re-released would do well to remember, even if we deem those statements a contract it's consider normal, reasonable and respectful behavior to come back to the person who you made a contract with and ask them if it would be okay to change the terms of said contract because you feel it would be an improvement. That is all PGI is doing, they did not change the exclusivity of the Phoenix Pack without asking the people who have it if that is okay, if it does reopen it's because WE choose to share it with other players.

You might choose to share it with everyone else, but those of us who vote no do not. If you and I and three others are at a party and we each have a special bottle of wine that is ours alone; and you and two others vote to share the wine with everyone, then the two of us who vote no could not be obligated to share our bottles with everyone even if we bought the exact same wine from the exact same retailer. That is the issue here.

It's not false advertising or business malpractice yet, but if they re-release the pack then it will instantly become so and PGI's credibility will be finally, fatally smashed.

It is good that they asked first rather than just doing it. However, that alone is not enough to warrant a yes. By that line of logic, I should happily award my wallet to whomever asks for it prior to attempting to rob me.

[Alex Morgaine]

Page 4 talked about moving 5 pixels could be legal... if the original 5 pixels want used again. Joke, or sarcasm side, it bring brings a thought to me.
What if they changed the (p) default colors on the (x) mechs (assuming a Phoenix-chassis pack but not the original Phoenix pack)
...?
/nit picking for reasonable ideas?
How would people feel about Orange/white/tan (p) or similar paint jobs? Red, yellow, white? Purple, Brown, like green??
How about founder mechs with different colors instead of blue, like maybe yellow or brown, something that isn't "noob green"?
I'm kind of curious now, what's the thoughts on that:
[not] one of a kind recolor sets. Could be a bad precedent, but... technically isn't the original then...

[Nightmare1]

Looks like "No" is still leading with an eight-percent gap. The diference in the number of votes is up since yesterday; we might see a change in percentage soon!

[Kotzi]

The forum on fire? 2.100 votes? This thread made me think the end was nigh...

[Nightmare1]

ROFL, when I initially posted the link, it was just to let folks know where the poll was.

Guess I should have known by now that there was no way the thread would have ended with that.