133 replies to this topic

[EvilCow]

Brody319, on 22 May 2015 - 01:57 AM, said:

change the current ECM to regular ECM and have it only hide the mech that uses it.
Then put Angel ECM in, and just have it cost more slots and tonnage.

This!

[Antares102]

Brody319, on 22 May 2015 - 01:57 AM, said:

change the current ECM to regular ECM and have it only hide the mech that uses it.
Then put Angel ECM in, and just have it cost more slots and tonnage.

+1

[General Solo]

Also ecm disables the function of the C3 Master/slave system installed on every mech.

[x Marder x]

ECM is not the savior and if you get in scout mech at start of match or middel close someone you do your job wrong.

Scout mechs with ecm if there is no space to maneuver, cover assaults and heavies so they don't get locked and in the end of the game you can get some kills or dmg when everything is cored and shoot to pieces.

IF you have space to maneuver gte behind the enemy and keep locks get tag with you. Tag some enemies if they're under ecm cover so your team see´s where the bulk of tenemy is. Find enemy ecm mechs keep lock for LRM kill it and use your ecm so the enemy can't lock you at range while in the back.

I hate light players witch face tank the enemy or try to play the hero. Know your job.

[Rushmoar]

Pjwned, on 21 May 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

ECM shouldn't shield anybody except the mech equipped with it, and additionally it should only slow missile locks down rather than preventing them.

Goose, on 21 May 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

If ECM only covers the unit it mounts, then everyone will drive ECM 'Mechs exclusivity, and Teh Devs will be oblivious to it for about 4 months …

This is how I see ECM at the moment. 1 of the 4 pilars to this game is informational warfare. In order to wage this war, mechs need to equip tools to wage this war. ECM mechs always equip ECM on their mechs but people have a hard time equipping the tools to fight ECM or improve info gattering in general for thier team. How many mech do you use that have BAP equipped just to have BAP?

If you want ECM to just cover the mech that uses it, we need other forms of info blocking besides ECM be cause Goose's quote will hold true and all of us will use ECM mechs. As long as ECM can cover other mechs, I can use a Raven 2X or a Shadowhawk and not be forced to run a Griffin 2N.

Not saying ECM is perfect, but it's not broken just that it needs some tweekin or fine tuning on how it works.

[Almond Brown]

Everyone loved the idea of EW warfare, but now that we have EW, no one is arsed to load on counters to it, because... you know, it takes away from their Dakka Dakka Pew Pew and that just won't do.

This Community is just so whiny... wowzers...

Edited by Almond Brown, 25 May 2015 - 05:41 AM.

[Deathlike]

Almond Brown, on 25 May 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

Everyone loved the idea of EW warfare, but now that we have EW, no one is arsed to load on counters to it, because... you know, it takes away from their Dakka Dakka Pew Pew and that just won't do.

This Community is just so whiny... wowzers...

That is not true EW warfare... it's shallow at best.

Having every other thing counter ECM is not how one should be balancing the game.

Even Active and Passive radar or different detection rates of different mechs would be some form of EW.

ECM is effectively a binary interpretation of "do you get any info? (y/n)". That is completely shameful.

Edited by Deathlike, 25 May 2015 - 05:58 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Almond Brown, on 25 May 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

Everyone loved the idea of EW warfare, but now that we have EW, no one is arsed to load on counters to it, because... you know, it takes away from their Dakka Dakka Pew Pew and that just won't do.

This Community is just so whiny... wowzers...

Edited by Bush Hopper, 25 May 2015 - 06:22 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Almond Brown, on 25 May 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

Everyone loved the idea of EW warfare, but now that we have EW, no one is arsed to load on counters to it, because... you know, it takes away from their Dakka Dakka Pew Pew and that just won't do.

This Community is just so whiny... wowzers...

Yep, can't loose 1.5t for BAP.

Can't hit J to counter ECM.

Everything I have seen in the last few weeks with pug stomps boils down to one side having ECM and the other does not. Of if they do, they dont know how to use the J key. This happens all the time. This is not the fault of ECM itself, it is the fault of players not bringing everything available to the fight or counting on one of the 11 solo pugs to do it and thats laughable. Why you find solo pug drops so problematic. 12 players all playing as individuals instead as a team.

12 individuals cannot compete against 12 working as 1.

The 12 individuals need to get over themselves and cooperate with each other or be doomed to be lambs for the slaughter.

Maybe PGI just needs to add Deathmatch mode where it is a 12 person free for all where the game is all about oneself instead of focused on teamwork and cooperation.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Mcgral18, on 22 May 2015 - 06:01 PM, said:

The Magic Jesus Box does contain some elements of Angel ECM, and Guardian ECM, Stealth Armour along with some magic fairy dust.


It's a wonderful bargain.

Like what elements from Angel ECM?
I`m not sure who first said that rubbish.
MWO ECM has nothing with BT ECM or Angel ECM.

[Pjwned]

ShinVector, on 24 May 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

Some people might forget that Target Decay was a counter for ECM and it was out for a long time before Radar Derp came about.

During that time LRM cheese ridiculous homing long range missiles combine with LRMs who speed was suddenly to nearly doubled.
Target decay combine with high speed LRM BS made it possible those damn to things chase you through corners...

Anyway L2A/L2P stop relying on homing weapons...
I am sorry to those how have 'valid' reasons like low fps but other people with no fps issues just love to cheese letting their whole team die in the process........ 'I am a support mech !' In an assault or a heavy ? Only to be killed my a light at the end of the game ? Well whatever..

--

Finally get rid of Target Decay and you can get rid of Radar Derp.

Congratulations, every single part of your post is wrong.

Rushmoar, on 25 May 2015 - 05:29 AM, said:

This is how I see ECM at the moment. 1 of the 4 pilars to this game is informational warfare. In order to wage this war, mechs need to equip tools to wage this war. ECM mechs always equip ECM on their mechs but people have a hard time equipping the tools to fight ECM or improve info gattering in general for thier team. How many mech do you use that have BAP equipped just to have BAP?

If you want ECM to just cover the mech that uses it, we need other forms of info blocking besides ECM be cause Goose's quote will hold true and all of us will use ECM mechs. As long as ECM can cover other mechs, I can use a Raven 2X or a Shadowhawk and not be forced to run a Griffin 2N.

Not saying ECM is perfect, but it's not broken just that it needs some tweekin or fine tuning on how it works.

Even if people were to hold onto their crutches so tightly as to solely run ECM mechs, which sounds like a huge load of crap and I also find it funny that you readily admit to needing a crutch from somebody else, it wouldn't really matter much when people would find their crutches kicked out from under them much easier with ECM no longer being a jesus box.

As far as "other forms of info blocking," what would that be? If you want to expand on ECM more so that mechs need more equipment at more cost to get (at least something close to) the current functionality of the jesus box, then I could see that being a start maybe.

x Marder x, on 25 May 2015 - 04:56 AM, said:

ECM is not the savior and if you get in scout mech at start of match or middel close someone you do your job wrong.

Scout mechs with ecm if there is no space to maneuver, cover assaults and heavies so they don't get locked and in the end of the game you can get some kills or dmg when everything is cored and shoot to pieces.

IF you have space to maneuver gte behind the enemy and keep locks get tag with you. Tag some enemies if they're under ecm cover so your team see´s where the bulk of tenemy is. Find enemy ecm mechs keep lock for LRM kill it and use your ecm so the enemy can't lock you at range while in the back.

I hate light players witch face tank the enemy or try to play the hero. Know your job.

Newsflash, you're not a special snowflake for piloting a heavier mech.

[ShinVector]

Pjwned, on 25 May 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

Congratulations, every single part of your post is wrong.

Congratz for your one liner ?

[EvilCow]

Previous games had a better EW overall, for example:
- Active/Passive radar for all of them after MW2.
- Limited ECM, didn't prevent LRM locks, only made it slower and easier to lose. LRMs could only be locked with LOS however and continue to track if the LOS is lost.
- BAP was about similar.
- MW4 had an IFF jammer which was "interesting".
- MWLL had proper AECM.
- In MWLL radar information was only shared by mechs mounting a C3 unit (but received by everybody), scouts were useful for actual scouting...
- All of them did not have the stupid red triangles, they implemented advanced eyeballs.
- Radar was omni-directional, but you could use ECM and/or passive mode for ambushes.

MWO is not very interesting in this regard, the classic passive/active radar modes are lost, those were considered an important skill and allowed for interesting uses, for example you could "pulse" your radar and give a quick look hoping the enemies would not see the blip on their radar.

Now we have an it-does-it-all Jesus box, simplified eyeball targeting with the dumb triangles and targets sharing for free.

Edited by EvilCow, 25 May 2015 - 09:06 AM.

[Deathlike]

EvilCow, on 25 May 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

- Active/Passive radar for all of them after MW2.

That's not correct.

MW3 didn't have any of that... MW4 was the first to do something with it.

You could detect mechs in MW3 as long as the mech was powered up.

[EvilCow]

I stand corrected, after MW3 then.

[ztac]

Funny thread as a scout can still see and report back although the team can not see red triangles, This is just bad scouting that seems the issue!

It seems that IS players are always wanting it their own way, And they have pretty much had it their own way about a couple of months or so after the clan launch!

[Weeny Machine]

ztac, on 25 May 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:

Funny thread as a scout can still see and report back although the team can not see red triangles, This is just bad scouting that seems the issue!

It seems that IS players are always wanting it their own way, And they have pretty much had it their own way about a couple of months or so after the clan launch!

Nope, you miss the point, sorry. Read the original post again.

[Pjwned]

ShinVector, on 25 May 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

Congratz for your one liner ?

There's not much more to say when you're wrong about target decay countering ECM in any manner, "LRM cheese [being] ridiculous homing long range missiles combine with LRMs who speed was suddenly to nearly doubled," "Target decay combine[d] with high speed LRM BS made it possible those damn to things chase you through corners," why people use LRMs or that it's a learn2play/learn2aim issue, suggesting that radar deprivation can go away when target decay does even though it's fine that both modules exist and the issue is simply that radar deprivation is too powerful...

Everything you said was wrong and you're clueless.

Edited by Pjwned, 25 May 2015 - 09:52 AM.

[ztac]

Bush Hopper, on 25 May 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

Nope, you miss the point, sorry. Read the original post again.

Not really as you can see enemy mechs way before they become a red triangle, If anything it makes a game more of a challenge rather than 'ooh look red triangles!'.

[Roadkill]

Pjwned, on 22 May 2015 - 05:47 AM, said:

So...change ECM to not be a jesus box because it's not like that (for good reason) in Tabletop.

But then butcher LRMs by requiring special gear to spot targets despite that not being how it works in Tabletop.

I'm sensing a logic issue here.

No, you're sensing the difference between tabletop and an online shooter.

Indirect fire in TT requires that the spotter not fire for an entire turn. Forcing the use of TAG or Narc is a reasonable way to simulate that TT requirement.