185 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Burktross, on 24 May 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

What? We're not yelling, "PGI, MAKE IT SO OR BOYCOTT!!!11"

The proportion. You blew it.

We're leaving it vague because in the end [if there is one] PGI would be better suited to decide the specifics.

Letting people pay more money while keeping the old stuff won't revolutionize the entire system.

I suppose there'd be some salt over the issue, but what makes the mech a hero is the paint and the hardpoints, really.

All this stuff.

It's simply a way for players to pay to reduce grind while using the mechs they love, and for PGI to add another revenue stream - particularly for the Clans, who currently lack hero's or even a functional method to design hero mechs (lets not go into that here, it's another topic entirely - the point is, there isn't one right now anyways).

We've been vague about dollar amounts, because it's not really important and is much more a PGI thing anyways.

The only question - and honestly it doesn't matter - is if the cost would vary by tonnage/class.

I'd argue it shouldn't: Hero mech costs are based on tonnage, but then the base mechs cost more - it wouldn't make sense for all hero mechs to be priced the same, or you'd pay disproportionately for either light mechs or assaults mechs.

But, for the upgrade? You still have to own the mech first, so you're already paying a scaled cost for the mech in cbills or MC, then adding a premium upgrade for the cbill bonus.

With that said, I wouldn't really object to a scaled cost. Honestly, I don't even care, I just want to get the extra 30% cbills on the mechs I love using.

[Sjorpha]

Yeah, the possibility of paying real money to upgrade your favorite mech with a cbill bonus would be a great addition. Why not a GXP ratio upgrade as well.

Many players have special mechs that they have owned for a long time and feel a personal attachment to, I think all kind of ways to give these pet mechs special love would be something a lot of people are prepared to pay for. Apart from cbill bonus something like being able to put custom text on the mech for MC, display the mechs name in the targeting info, adding visible damage/old age and repairs or change the look of head and other body parts, would also sell to a lot of people.

Maybe limit the cbill boost to 20% and have the upgrade cost 1500 MC or something, farming with your best mechs would still be more effective than with heroes even if the boost is just 20%.

I have quite a few mechs that have grown on me so much I could throw some extra MC on them for things like this.

Edited by Sjorpha, 24 May 2015 - 09:08 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 24 May 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

All this stuff.

It's simply a way for players to pay to reduce grind while using the mechs they love, and for PGI to add another revenue stream - particularly for the Clans, who currently lack hero's or even a functional method to design hero mechs (lets not go into that here, it's another topic entirely - the point is, there isn't one right now anyways).

We've been vague about dollar amounts, because it's not really important and is much more a PGI thing anyways.

The only question - and honestly it doesn't matter - is if the cost would vary by tonnage/class.

I'd argue it shouldn't: Hero mech costs are based on tonnage, but then the base mechs cost more - it wouldn't make sense for all hero mechs to be priced the same, or you'd pay disproportionately for either light mechs or assaults mechs.

But, for the upgrade? You still have to own the mech first, so you're already paying a scaled cost for the mech in cbills or MC, then adding a premium upgrade for the cbill bonus.

With that said, I wouldn't really object to a scaled cost. Honestly, I don't even care, I just want to get the extra 30% cbills on the mechs I love using.

I'd argue it does, because whether Champion, Hero, Normal, CBill or MC, costs vary. More Importantly, because it's not an upgrade for everyone, so many people may well be buying new Premium Chassis. And realistically, speaking? I doubt PGI would introduce it as an Upgrade. I would put good money that they would simply introduce them to the Store for fresh purchase.

I like a lot of the ideas in this Thread, but am going to have to be the killjoy here, and point out what would be great to happen and what would make most financial shape for PGI, might not be the same in their outlook.

Sjorpha, on 24 May 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

Yeah, the possibility of paying real money to upgrade your favorite mech with a cbill bonus would be a great addition. Why not a GXP ratio upgrade as well.

Many players have special mechs that they have owned for a long time and feel a personal attachment to, I think all kind of ways to give these pet mechs special love would be something a lot of people are prepared to pay for. Apart from cbill bonus something like being able to put custom text on the mech for MC, display the mechs name in the targeting info, or change the look of the head and other body parts, would also sell to a lot of people.

Maybe limit the cbill boost to 20% and have the upgrade cost 2000 MC or something, farming with your best mechs would still be more effective than with heroes even if the boost is just 20%.

thing is, ...you saw how much some founders cried over their mechs only getting 25%? I really think keeping the percentages the same, even at a higher cost, is the way to go.

Of course, this being MWO forums....QQ ...and just plain illogical belligerence (like Ted) will ensure, regardless.

[C E Dwyer]

Afraid not

reasons why

1, It makes current hero mechs obsolete which are hardly optimum for the most part ( On a personal note if this came in I can wave buy buy to a wolverine and Thunderbolt hero)

2 People payed hard cash in packs like the resistance sets, and have to tolerate a locked usually bad camo on the 'special' mech, its a 'reward' for buying early access, if 'premium' mechs were brought in it would make buying packs and A la carte pointless.

3 People would always play the meta mech with bonuses making the game even more locked into which ever meta was FOTM

[sycocys]

First off I'm totally for having the ability to "hero" a mech, but I also think it should be super gated as well as have an MC cost.

Gates/limits -
Only 1 variant per chassis can have this hero tag -- a hero mech, special or champion variant can not receive this tag
4 variants fully mastered (I'd say all but some have 4 while others have 6-7)
hero/true master skill (or whatever it would be called) - cost of 500k mech xp, mech xp only.
upgrade cost - 2-5k MC (just a ballpark for something that would be reasonable)

additional "upgrade" possibilities --
1-2k MC - your hero mechs name shown in-game (each would need to be approved by a staff member hence the cost)

20k MC - custom hero mech camo pattern, with the possibility of it getting released after a set amount of time to the shop. I see we've got several guys that produce pretty solid pattern renders in the community, can't imagine it would be out of line to have a graphics guy port those designs to the game if the price was right.

adding a title/badge and line of achievements for the guys that are willing to spend to upgrade their mechs further.

Even if you don't go the route of all the extra stuff though (it would be awesome to have a way to put the mech name in game though at least), a way for players to take their favorite mech and make it more personal and showing they are a master of it would at least generate some revenue on older/alternate chassis where none is being made. It would probably also sell additional premium time for players trying to grind out a big xp target.

Note - Also I think it would be better to have it as a flat rate upgrade than trying to sell additional hero versions of the same mechs.

Edited by sycocys, 24 May 2015 - 09:41 AM.

[Ted Wayz]

Again, you are failing to fully consider the effect of cannibalizing a recurring revenue stream with a one time license. And you would be cannibalizing one time licenses with another one time license. But I am pretty sure I am speaking Greek at this point.

If PGI was smart they would beef up the appeal of premium time. They certainly wouldn't kill it by creating a one shot alternative.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cathy, on 24 May 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

Afraid not

reasons why

1, It makes current hero mechs obsolete which are hardly optimum for the most part ( On a personal note if this came in I can wave buy buy to a wolverine and Thunderbolt hero)

2 People payed hard cash in packs like the resistance sets, and have to tolerate a locked usually bad camo on the 'special' mech, its a 'reward' for buying early access, if 'premium' mechs were brought in it would make buying packs and A la carte pointless.

3 People would always play the meta mech with bonuses making the game even more locked into which ever meta was FOTM

cool...and long term, the Mech Packs do feel like a bad idea. Or at least, if that is the ONLY avenue PGI will use. Heroes....what can I say...time to make some actually interesting Heroes?

[Burktross]

Ted Wayz, on 24 May 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

Again, you are failing to fully consider the effect of cannibalizing a recurring revenue stream with a one time license. And you would be cannibalizing one time licenses with another one time license. But I am pretty sure I am speaking Greek at this point.

If PGI was smart they would beef up the appeal of premium time. They certainly wouldn't kill it by creating a one shot alternative.

It would kill it if heros and premium didn't stack, but that isn't the case.
I for one would be more inclined to buy premium time if I knew I could couple it with that 30% cbill boost wherever I go.

sycocys, on 24 May 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

First off I'm totally for having the ability to "hero" a mech, but I also think it should be super gated as well as have an MC cost.

Gates/limits -
Only 1 variant per chassis can have this hero tag -- a hero mech, special or champion variant can not receive this tag
4 variants fully mastered (I'd say all but some have 4 while others have 6-7)
hero/true master skill (or whatever it would be called) - cost of 500k mech xp, mech xp only.
upgrade cost - 2-5k MC (just a ballpark for something that would be reasonable)

additional "upgrade" possibilities --
1-2k MC - your hero mechs name shown in-game (each would need to be approved by a staff member hence the cost)

20k MC - custom hero mech camo pattern, with the possibility of it getting released after a set amount of time to the shop. I see we've got several guys that produce pretty solid pattern renders in the community, can't imagine it would be out of line to have a graphics guy port those designs to the game if the price was right.

adding a title/badge and line of achievements for the guys that are willing to spend to upgrade their mechs further.

Even if you don't go the route of all the extra stuff though (it would be awesome to have a way to put the mech name in game though at least), a way for players to take their favorite mech and make it more personal and showing they are a master of it would at least generate some revenue on older/alternate chassis where none is being made. It would probably also sell additional premium time for players trying to grind out a big xp target.

Note - Also I think it would be better to have it as a flat rate upgrade than trying to sell additional hero versions of the same mechs.

We're not talking special names and stuff, we're talking strictly CB bonuses.

Cathy, on 24 May 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

2 People payed hard cash in packs like the resistance sets, and have to tolerate a locked usually bad camo on the 'special' mech, its a 'reward' for buying early access, if 'premium' mechs were brought in it would make buying packs and A la carte pointless.

But this is like like mastery packs make normal heros obsolete. There's a lot more to packs than hero bonuses, and this is coming from an R1 owner.

Edited by Burktross, 24 May 2015 - 11:01 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 May 2015 - 10:35 AM, said:

cool...and long term, the Mech Packs do feel like a bad idea. Or at least, if that is the ONLY avenue PGI will use. Heroes....what can I say...time to make some actually interesting Heroes?

I don't think that heroes are uninteresting its certainly an 'interesting' experience playing many of them, and PGI made them this way to avoid P2W claims which they have mostly managed to avoid, the Ember, Muromets, and Slayer being closest to actually being true.

This method is most definately Pay to Win, and if people want a C-bill bost without going to the expense of a pack or Hero, there is Premium time on sale now, without any extra developement costs or time.

another draw back is extended income, once people have their 'ideal' mech what is the point in supporting the game any further with RL cash

[ShinobiHunter]

So Ted, PGI finances aside, if they offered this, would you buy into it?

[Burktross]

Cathy, on 24 May 2015 - 11:32 AM, said:

I don't think that heroes are uninteresting its certainly an 'interesting' experience playing many of them, and PGI made them this way to avoid P2W claims which they have mostly managed to avoid, the Ember, Muromets, and Slayer being closest to actually being true.

This method is most definately Pay to Win, and if people want a C-bill bost without going to the expense of a pack or Hero, there is Premium time on sale now, without any extra developement costs or time.

another draw back is extended income, once people have their 'ideal' mech what is the point in supporting the game any further with RL cash

If the cbill bonus is the only thing keeping a mech from being ideal, then why would anyone buy mech packs to begin with?

[Bishop Steiner]

Cathy, on 24 May 2015 - 11:32 AM, said:

I don't think that heroes are uninteresting its certainly an 'interesting' experience playing many of them, and PGI made them this way to avoid P2W claims which they have mostly managed to avoid, the Ember, Muromets, and Slayer being closest to actually being true.

This method is most definately Pay to Win, and if people want a C-bill bost without going to the expense of a pack or Hero, there is Premium time on sale now, without any extra developement costs or time.

another draw back is extended income, once people have their 'ideal' mech what is the point in supporting the game any further with RL cash

LOL.... P2W? Did you really just say that?

Zero in game advantage. If 30% Cbill boost is P2W than all Heroes, Package Mechs and Premium Time is P2W.

[ShinobiHunter]

I like the idea of needed x amount of mech XP to heroize the mech. It would actually encourage PT sales, since people are going to want to get it as soon as possible, IMO.

[Kensaisama]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 May 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

LOL.... P2W? Did you really just say that?

Zero in game advantage. If 30% Cbill boost is P2W than all Heroes, Package Mechs and Premium Time is P2W.

Yes I do believe he said P2W

Don't mind me, I'm just here to stir the pot

[Burktross]

ShinobiHunter, on 24 May 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

I like the idea of needed x amount of mech XP to heroize the mech. It would actually encourage PT sales, since people are going to want to get it as soon as possible, IMO.

Yes, but keep it a decent amount of mechxp. No more than 30k.

[C E Dwyer]

Burktross, on 24 May 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

But this is like like mastery packs make normal heros obsolete. There's a lot more to packs than hero bonuses, and this is coming from an R1 owner.

But they don't.
There is still a place for a hero mech, while I don't want a hero Timberwolf (unless of course the look made me go wow) there are many that seem to want clan Heros, and in this case it would be purely for the look, as soon as it was bought the omnipods would get pulled out for better ones.

The Griffin hero, Shadowhawk and locust Hero all came out after packs came out, and its a lot cheaper to buy, than an a la cart trio.

i'm going off packs because i'm buying permium time i'm never going to use

[C E Dwyer]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 May 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

LOL.... P2W? Did you really just say that? Zero in game advantage. If 30% Cbill boost is P2W than all Heroes, Package Mechs and Premium Time is P2W.

Yup I did just say that, hero mechs were tuned down because they had the pay wall of MC and the accusations of it attached to them, even when they were not the best variant

This way you have a smaller pay wall, but you can always put it on the best mech so you have something better than a hero with the same c-bill bonus.

so based on the fact people claimed Hero mech were pay to win, even when they were worse than many that didn't get the bonus, my point is in fact the correct one, it just depends on whether a 30% c-bill bonus is pay to win, and when you think of the module costs and the advantages they give.

Hell *shrugs* I got nothing to buy with c-bills any more so why not make hero mechs pointless

[Bishop Steiner]

Cathy, on 24 May 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

Yup I did just say that, hero mechs were tuned down because they had the pay wall of MC and the accusations of it attached to them, even when they were not the best variant

This way you have a smaller pay wall, but you can always put it on the best mech so you have something better than a hero with the same c-bill bonus.

so based on the fact people claimed Hero mech were pay to win, even when they were worse than many that didn't get the bonus, my point is in fact the correct one, it just depends on whether a 30% c-bill bonus is pay to win, and when you think of the module costs and the advantages they give.

Hell *shrugs* I got nothing to buy with c-bills any more so why not make hero mechs pointless

Might want to figure out P2W. If it confers ZERO in game advantage? It's NOT P2W.

People claimed Heroes were P2W because they were unique and could do things that free versions could not. Even if most were definitively WORSE in actual play. But it was their uniqueness that caused people to cry P2W.

A HBK-4G with a 30% cbill bonus is in no way unique over any other HBK-4G IN THE GAME, which is what P2W means.

[sycocys]

Burktross, on 24 May 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

Yes, but keep it a decent amount of mechxp. No more than 30k.

30k xp is a day in almost every mech above a light. A few days to a week if you really take it slow.

To make a mech hero should definitely require effort and time to unlock the option, and MC to actually do it. And it doesn't kill any mech packs or revenue streams, it adds more. The people that have every/nearly every mech in the game will likely want to have a hero of their favorite of each chassis - especially if they can spend a little more and have their mech name presented in game as well.

[Burktross]

sycocys, on 24 May 2015 - 01:24 PM, said:

30k xp is a day in almost every mech above a light. A few days to a week if you really take it slow.

To make a mech hero should definitely require effort and time to unlock the option, and MC to actually do it. And it doesn't kill any mech packs or revenue streams, it adds more. The people that have every/nearly every mech in the game will likely want to have a hero of their favorite of each chassis - especially if they can spend a little more and have their mech name presented in game as well.

Christ, a day? I only have 300k in my Hunchie 4P, and I know I've played that for more than 10 days.