161 replies to this topic

[Chuck Jager]

jaxjace, on 31 May 2015 - 02:34 AM, said:

agreed the grid iron can tank any timber simply because of its INSANE dps

I said absolutely nothing about the DPS of a quirked mech and the gauss. If you want to talk about DPS go play WOW or SWTOR with a healer and tank combo. I have found in this game each weight class combined with speed gets X amounts of pokes before you die in a close game. Player skill can get some more, but if you want to talk about using DPS as a tool you are not poking the bear only padding stats or playing really bad players and the team could have won with you DCed. It is easy to face tank most Tolves if it says lrm20 (code for trial) or sh*t load of lasers especially erllas because they will overheat. If they have srm in their readout I stay away.

My Atlas has switched to a gauss because when I get into srm range I never have to choose whether to shoot or srm, and the charge up is easy to manage. The best gauss quirk is the 25% weight reduction for clan that can add another 21ish points of damage in the most used range with the added cermlas provided by the 3 tons.

[aniviron]

Man, this thread could have been from early open beta or late CB. Dual gauss has been a thing for that long. I don't think it's going anywhere any time soon.

[Mystere]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 30 May 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

min range for gauss

A projectile weapon that has a minimum range just does not make any sense to me. Relegate that particular "feature" to the 1980's where it belongs.

[Mystere]

aniviron, on 31 May 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

Man, this thread could have been from early open beta or late CB. Dual gauss has been a thing for that long. I don't think it's going anywhere any time soon.

Well, the "I got killed by XXX! Nerf XXX NAO!!!" loser mentality never really left.

[Drake Morgan]

Gauss having a min range makes zero sense. It is a projectile accelerated out of a cannon; it's maximum velocity starts when it leaves the barrel. A PPC I could understand, but Gauss? Get outta here. I play lights almost exclusively and have no problem with dealing with dual gauss. If they manage to hit me with it, I say good on them; that takes skill. I don't stop moving, because if I do I am dead. I'm a damn LIGHT. No more crying. Go play shoots and ladders or candyland if you cannot cope.

Edited by Drake Morgan, 31 May 2015 - 03:27 PM.

[LordNothing]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 May 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

This is a sad thought.

A cool running hard hitting weapon with range... used as back up. It hurts me right here.

it is depressing. but this game likes to take the funnest weapons and make them damn near inadequate. that gauss charge mechanic is really to blame, it makes it tricky to use a gauss as part of a weapons group. you have to give it its own then you have to charge take aim fire and then tap your laser group at around the same time. it makes it rather awkward to use as part of an alpha strike.

it does neatly fill that side arm niche, something you use when your core is on fire, or for that lone short range mech all alone 900 meters away looking at you with its big sad cockpit just begging to be gaussed out of its misery. its a very situational weapon. i really dont think 15 damage is worth that sad little interface screw. especially when people are doing 50+ damage laser vomit alphas, which they totally dont have to charge up for. now if you have a laser vomit + gauss config, and you get into a fight with someone who just has lasers, you have something you can shoot while you are both overheating.

as a primary weapon on an assault or heavy, it leaves something to be desired. if you have mobility it is great. i think some of my best gauss kills were in a hunchie.

Edited by LordNothing, 31 May 2015 - 03:38 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Herr Vorragend, on 26 May 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

Why? The gauss already has lots of negative aspects to deal with. And you can avoid double gaussers with intelligent positioning.

Interestingly this works with LRM as well

[Nightmare1]

Gauss is already one of the more useless weapons in the game, except for the Clans (one of the only two pinpoint weapons they have) and certain IS Mechs.

OP is either out of his mind or trolling.

[Khobai]

Quote

Ok, another tryhard telling us about the gauss macro that makes them magically delicious!

You DO know that the gauss macro simply fires the gauss the moment it hits charge, right?

I know what the macro does.

The fact remains that using a macro to auto-charge gauss is easier than holding down the button and charging it manually. And that was exactly my point. Players use macros to eliminate tedium and bad weapon mechanics.

Gauss chargeup is a bad weapon mechanic. And macroing significantly reduces the inconvenience of chargup by turning it into a simple fire delay, which is much more tolerable.

Quote

Gauss having a min range makes zero sense.

It had a min range in battletech. The whole reason it had a min range in battletech was to force you to take a mixed loadout of gauss and other weapons. It was for game balance. Thats all the sense it needs to make.

Regardless of whether it made sense or not, it actually worked in forcing mixed loadouts in battletech, which is something MWO fails to do miserably with everyone boating the same or similar weapons. I personally think MWO would be a better game if the Devs had a better understanding of why things were done the way they were done in battletech...

Also if you try to apply real world logic to MWO youll find that nothing makes sense at all... the whole concept of upright mechs with exposed profiles is one that no realistic military power would ever employ. MWO is a game and sometimes games dont always do what makes sense for balance reasons.

Edited by Khobai, 31 May 2015 - 09:18 PM.

[Sjorpha]

LordNothing, on 31 May 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

it is depressing. but this game likes to take the funnest weapons and make them damn near inadequate. that gauss charge mechanic is really to blame, it makes it tricky to use a gauss as part of a weapons group. you have to give it its own then you have to charge take aim fire and then tap your laser group at around the same time. it makes it rather awkward to use as part of an alpha strike.

it does neatly fill that side arm niche, something you use when your core is on fire, or for that lone short range mech all alone 900 meters away looking at you with its big sad cockpit just begging to be gaussed out of its misery. its a very situational weapon. i really dont think 15 damage is worth that sad little interface screw. especially when people are doing 50+ damage laser vomit alphas, which they totally dont have to charge up for. now if you have a laser vomit + gauss config, and you get into a fight with someone who just has lasers, you have something you can shoot while you are both overheating.

as a primary weapon on an assault or heavy, it leaves something to be desired. if you have mobility it is great. i think some of my best gauss kills were in a hunchie.

Ok so I have my primary weapons over here, now what do I do with those spare 18 (or 36?) tons?...

...thought no reasonable person ever.

If you invest in one or more of the heaviest guns in the game it's not "backup", especially not if that weapon is effective at all ranges and no heat. Gauss rifles are either a centerpiece in your arsenal or not part of it.

Nightmare1, on 31 May 2015 - 06:39 PM, said:

Gauss is already one of the more useless weapons in the game, except for the Clans (one of the only two pinpoint weapons they have) and certain IS Mechs.

OP is either out of his mind or trolling.

I don't want to nerf gauss, I think it is in a good place, but anyone saying it is "niche" or "useless" is just not up to date with the metagame.

Gauss is one of the most useful, powerful and common weapons for both Clan and IS. Gauss + laser is a staple setup for high level play on both sides. Gauss + PPCs are still a thing as well as dual gauss.

I personally like the charge mechanic, I think it brings flavour to the weapon. But whether you like it or not and whether is difficult to use for you or not, it is simply a fact that the charge isn't stopping good players from making competitive/effective use of the gauss, and they don't need a macro to do it.

As for the described cycling charge macro, I simply don't buy that it would be an advantage over simply controlling the weapon well yourself. For one gauss it is obviously just a nuissance to have it charge constantly, for two gauss the firing window isn't long enough to overlap and you lose the primary advantage of bringing dual gauss in the first place, which is 30 pinpoint damage. For 3 or 4 gauss rifles it might be of use, but there are only two chassis who can take it (Ilya and Dire) and only one where it is anywhere near viable (dire) and it's not one of the best builds for it anyways. Long story short, that macro is almost completely irrelevant for the game and 100% irrelevant for competitive play, it therefore has 0 impact on a discussion about game balance.

Edited by Sjorpha, 01 June 2015 - 02:28 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

LordNothing, on 31 May 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

it is depressing. but this game likes to take the funnest weapons and make them damn near inadequate. that gauss charge mechanic is really to blame, it makes it tricky to use a gauss as part of a weapons group. you have to give it its own then you have to charge take aim fire and then tap your laser group at around the same time. it makes it rather awkward to use as part of an alpha strike.

it does neatly fill that side arm niche, something you use when your core is on fire, or for that lone short range mech all alone 900 meters away looking at you with its big sad cockpit just begging to be gaussed out of its misery. its a very situational weapon. i really dont think 15 damage is worth that sad little interface screw. especially when people are doing 50+ damage laser vomit alphas, which they totally dont have to charge up for. now if you have a laser vomit + gauss config, and you get into a fight with someone who just has lasers, you have something you can shoot while you are both overheating.

as a primary weapon on an assault or heavy, it leaves something to be desired. if you have mobility it is great. i think some of my best gauss kills were in a hunchie.

Though true, it does a good job demonstrating why the Gauss has a 60 meter minimum. That short delay, makes it tricky hitting a enemy in knife range.

[Widowmaker1981]

Khobai, on 31 May 2015 - 09:06 PM, said:

I know what the macro does.

The fact remains that using a macro to auto-charge gauss is easier than holding down the button and charging it manually. And that was exactly my point. Players use macros to eliminate tedium and bad weapon mechanics.

Gauss chargeup is a bad weapon mechanic. And macroing significantly reduces the inconvenience of chargup by turning it into a simple fire delay, which is much more tolerable.

Yeah, you're just wrong there. Gauss Macro makes it harder to use effectively.

If you fire with a macro, 0.75s after you click the shot will fire. regardless of whether you temporarily moved the cursor off the target, or the target ducked behind cover. The only thing this helps with is if you have SERIOUS ADHD issues and are not able to remember to let go of a button.

If you fire without a macro you have 0.75s (i think) in which to choose whether to release the shot, allowing you to adjust for unexpected target movement far better, or choose to cancel the shot and not waste ammo if the opening went away.

Macros for gauss are a HINDRANCE not a help.

[Nightmare1]

Sjorpha, on 01 June 2015 - 02:24 AM, said:

I don't want to nerf gauss, I think it is in a good place, but anyone saying it is "niche" or "useless" is just not up to date with the metagame.

Gauss is one of the most useful, powerful and common weapons for both Clan and IS. Gauss + laser is a staple setup for high level play on both sides. Gauss + PPCs are still a thing as well as dual gauss.

I personally like the charge mechanic, I think it brings flavour to the weapon. But whether you like it or not and whether is difficult to use for you or not, it is simply a fact that the charge isn't stopping good players from making competitive/effective use of the gauss, and they don't need a macro to do it.

As for the described cycling charge macro, I simply don't buy that it would be an advantage over simply controlling the weapon well yourself. For one gauss it is obviously just a nuissance to have it charge constantly, for two gauss the firing window isn't long enough to overlap and you lose the primary advantage of bringing dual gauss in the first place, which is 30 pinpoint damage. For 3 or 4 gauss rifles it might be of use, but there are only two chassis who can take it (Ilya and Dire) and only one where it is anywhere near viable (dire) and it's not one of the best builds for it anyways. Long story short, that macro is almost completely irrelevant for the game and 100% irrelevant for competitive play, it therefore has 0 impact on a discussion about game balance.

OP comes across as an attempt to nerf the Gauss.

As someone who is quite knowledgeable about the game, I can't agree that the Gauss is part of the meta right now. That consists primarily of lasers. What I will say, is that snipers still use the Gauss and that certain niche Mechs like the Grid Iron still rely upon it heavily. As far as being a prolific weapon that all the "cool kids" use is concerned, I have to call bunk. I primarily see Gauss Rifles on Clan Mechs that have no other option for a low-heat, high pinpoint weapon system. For IS Mechs, most of the pilots I see avoid the Gauss. It's too fragile with too slow a rate of fire to be effective.

It is somewhat more common in Pug matches, I've noticed, where it appears that fewer pilots run the laser meta. Perhaps that is what you are seeing. From my experience though, I only see a couple each game, and there are some games where I do not see any at all.

[Yokaiko]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 June 2015 - 02:28 AM, said:

Though true, it does a good job demonstrating why the Gauss has a 60 meter minimum. That short delay, makes it tricky hitting a enemy in knife range.

Short range is easy

Its catching the guy poking 700m away that is hard.

[McScwizzy]

Gauss Rifles are fine just the way they are. They still take a bit of skill to use them. With proper cover lots of damage can be avoided.

I run a gauss in one of my Timberwolf and Stormcrow builds. Reason being is that Clans do not have much else in the ballistic realm to rely on. Everything else has been nerfed to $|-|17, including our lasers.

Edited by McScwizzy, 01 June 2015 - 06:31 AM.

[LordBraxton]

Kristov Kerensky, on 26 May 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

Bah, that's nothing...

We had a guy with a Light with an AC2, don't even remember what now, but he saw an Atlas the 2 round of the game at extreme range.

He fired, he rolled a through armor crit, he got a triple crit, CT....engine....engine....and....ENGINE!

The Atlas never even saw what fired at him, never got to fire a single weapon, and was out of the combat that fast.

My very first BTech TT game, I'm in a Wolverine. I got hit in the cockpit by a gauss rifle before I got close enough to use a single weapon on the guy who shot me. I learned real quick why it's called the Vorpal Gun in BTech.

Then there was the time my friend in a Flea discovered why running on a paved road in BTech is considered a bad idea. MASC on, moving FULL speed, he tried to turn. He failed the pilot roll horribly. By the time the Flea stopped rolling, the Mech was in pieces and the PILOT was dead due to the cockpit having caught it's OWN FOOT in the cockpit as it was rolling around flinging pieces all over the place. Road rash..it's NOT just for people on motorcycles! Gods I wish we had that in MWO....

I'd love to see the rules for skidding implemented, but PGI would never be able to program it, and we'd need collisions\knockdowns for it to be meaningful.

[Felio]

Item limit: 1

[jaxjace]

Chuck YeaGurr, on 31 May 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

I said absolutely nothing about the DPS of a quirked mech and the gauss. If you want to talk about DPS go play WOW or SWTOR with a healer and tank combo. I have found in this game each weight class combined with speed gets X amounts of pokes before you die in a close game. Player skill can get some more, but if you want to talk about using DPS as a tool you are not poking the bear only padding stats or playing really bad players and the team could have won with you DCed. It is easy to face tank most Tolves if it says lrm20 (code for trial) or sh*t load of lasers especially erllas because they will overheat. If they have srm in their readout I stay away.

My Atlas has switched to a gauss because when I get into srm range I never have to choose whether to shoot or srm, and the charge up is easy to manage. The best gauss quirk is the 25% weight reduction for clan that can add another 21ish points of damage in the most used range with the added cermlas provided by the 3 tons.

dog what?

Joseph Mallan, on 31 May 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

This is a sad thought.

A cool running hard hitting weapon with range... used as back up. It hurts me right here.

Hey I do it, the lasers do more damage. Large pulse and a medium does more for far less weight, and not ammo dependent, and not fragile. the gauss is a nice finisher to a laser wash.

[Water Bear]

Dual gauss isn't that hard to deal with. They're like ballistic LRMs, just close with the user and let your higher DPS shorter range weapons do the talking. Basically, gauss rifles do work well but are actually out classed in terms of DPS at medium to short range. Just...don't let a gauss heavy player / team plug away at you at long distance for too long and you'll be ok.

[LordNothing]

one thing you could do to make the gauss seemingly less devastating to players of a certain skill level (noobs) without changing its stats, is simply make the projectile more visible. mechwarrior 4 type visible, back when helical railgun trails were still popular in shooters. gauss is kind of a ninja weapon right now and that adds to its effectiveness. take away some ninja, and the noobs might realize that it kind of sucks and is easy to counter.

Edited by LordNothing, 01 June 2015 - 11:55 AM.