231 replies to this topic

[bad arcade kitty]

>C-ERML and C-LPL themselves should have been adjusted

bzz... why do i even waste my time reading and answering this 'nerf clans' thread

scr is clans' only good medium, it has agility comparable to the best is mediums, but while everybody is ok about is mediums, clan ones are supposed to be sitting ducks, aren't they

it's more agile than clan lights and it's a problem with clan lights being too weak and not with scr
kfx and adder need significant yaw buffs, the nerf of scr would only weaken the clans more (clantech is already a joke) not helping clan lights at all

[Sigilum Sanctum]

bad arcade kitty, on 26 May 2015 - 07:52 PM, said:

(clantech is already a joke) not helping clan lights at all

More damage, more range, less weight, less crit slots.

Thats a joke?

[ShinobiHunter]

bad arcade kitty, on 26 May 2015 - 06:33 PM, said:

btw, do you know that wolverine is significantly more agile than stormcrow?

why is it allowed to be more agile than any clan mech while having great positive weapon quirks too? meanwhile scr cannot even use lasers

Hitboxes, IS XL engines, weapon placement, heavier weapons, etc. Have you ever piloted a Wolverine for any length of time? I'm possibly the biggest fan of Wolvies on this forum, but they're really not on par with Stormcrows. If you seriously think they're on an even plane, you're none too bright and I have no time of day for you. And if not, you're a troll and I still have no time of day for you.

[Mystere]

FupDup, on 26 May 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

Step 1: Remove +15% torso twist speed quirk. Thus, it will now be +0%. Don't make it negative.

Step 2: Reduce maximum torso twist angle to somewhere in the neighborhood of 110 degrees default.

2b. If we're generous, maybe let the non-weapon side torsos increase the twist angle a bit because you have to rely on more vulnerable gun arms, but this isn't 100% necessary.

And presto chango, we're done, we now have a medium that is still very good (which MWO needs more of, A LOT more of) without being quite as far out of line.

Presto? Nothing about this game is as easy as people project. Otherwise, MWO will be already considered feature complete.

[Y E O N N E]

bad arcade kitty, on 26 May 2015 - 07:52 PM, said:

>C-ERML and C-LPL themselves should have been adjusted

bzz... why do i even waste my time reading and answering this 'nerf clans' thread

scr is clans' only good medium, it has agility comparable to the best is mediums, but while everybody is ok about is mediums, clan ones are supposed to be sitting ducks, aren't they

it's more agile than clan lights and it's a problem with clan lights being too weak and not with scr
kfx and adder need significant yaw buffs, the nerf of scr would only weaken the clans more (clantech is already a joke) not helping clan lights at all

You are assuming I'm looking at it as Clan Mediums being compared to Clan Lights. I am not. Clan Lights suck and that's a different issue and really should not have been framed as related in the OP.

You also make it sound like a reduction in torso yaw would really hurt the Crow, and I'm telling you it won't. Even with a ridiculous hit to being a 90 degree yaw, it could still spread damage as well as or better than a Griffin or a Wolverine because that's how it is shaped. It just won't be able to shoot behind itself so easily. That's hardly a sitting duck.

As for Clan tech being a joke...are you high? Put up a proper argument with analysis or leave.

Finally...I thought you were one of the people around here that knew how to look at the game as a system. Apparently I was mistaken.

[Templar Dane]

Why Is The Doomcrow Still More Agile Than Clam Lights?


Because of it's XL 330 engine.

Adder and kitfox have much smaller engines. 180 and 210.

It's not PGI's fault that the engines are this way, blame some guys in the 80's you've probably never heard of.

[FupDup]

lordtzar, on 26 May 2015 - 08:16 PM, said:

Why Is The Doomcrow Still More Agile Than Clam Lights?


Because of it's XL 330 engine.

Adder and kitfox have much smaller engines. 180 and 210.

It's not PGI's fault that the engines are this way, blame some guys in the 80's you've probably never heard of.

Actually, it is in fact PGI's fault for choosing to base agility off of speed/engine size. They did not have to do it.

[Mcgral18]

lordtzar, on 26 May 2015 - 08:16 PM, said:

Why Is The Doomcrow Still More Agile Than Clam Lights?


Because of it's XL 330 engine.

Adder and kitfox have much smaller engines. 180 and 210.

It's not PGI's fault that the engines are this way, blame some guys in the 80's you've probably never heard of.

Actually, that would make them identical.


The fact it has a 25% quirk makes it superior, and the fact that PGI gave it 156 degrees of torso twist.

[Pjwned]

Mystere, on 26 May 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

Sigh!

How many times are you going to quote yourself saying something stupid and not give any actual argument?

I'm going to quote my post right here repeatedly every time you do this from now on because you're not contributing anything to any discussion when all you do is whine about asymmetric balance in response to every single thing.

Edited by Pjwned, 26 May 2015 - 08:50 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

Mcgral18, on 26 May 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

Actually, that would make them identical.


The fact it has a 25% quirk makes it superior, and the fact that PGI gave it 156 degrees of torso twist.

you still didn't explain how it would help clan lights

[Templar Dane]

Mcgral18, on 26 May 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

Actually, that would make them identical.


The fact it has a 25% quirk makes it superior, and the fact that PGI gave it 156 degrees of torso twist.

If we're talking about the 15% rate bonus on the center torso and the side torso bonuses (that only the side torsos without any hardpoints) get.........

The range is dictated natively by the limits on the chassis, but the twist rate is determined by weight and engine rating along with the native twist speed.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 26 May 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

2b. If we're generous, maybe let the non-weapon side torsos increase the twist angle a bit because you have to rely on more vulnerable gun arms, but this isn't 100% necessary.

Honestly, the best way to make the non-weapon side torsos more viable would probably to allow them to boost its respective arm with additional armor/structure but I don't know if they can do that with the way quirks are coded.

[FupDup]

WM Quicksilver, on 26 May 2015 - 08:54 PM, said:

Honestly, the best way to make the non-weapon side torsos more viable would probably to allow them to boost its respective arm with additional armor/structure but I don't know if they can do that with the way quirks are coded.

I think it would be easy enough for something like having the Prime LT (no hardpoints) do "+X Left Arm Structure" or whatever. In theory.

[Mcgral18]

bad arcade kitty, on 26 May 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

you still didn't explain how it would help clan lights

They wouldn't be outclassed in agility?

You seem rather butthurt about God Tier robots no longer being God Tier.



I've gotten a response about the TrueDub issue which would help them get equal heat dissipation (if ever implemented) and some armour buffs would make their scale less bad. Not being outclassed in every way is a place to start.

lordtzar, on 26 May 2015 - 08:54 PM, said:

If we're talking about the 15% rate bonus on the center torso and the side torso bonuses (that only the side torsos without any hardpoints) get.........

The range is dictated natively by the limits on the chassis, but the twist rate is determined by weight and engine rating along with the native twist speed.

And the Twist Rate follows the TT movement system to a T. Mechs that move 97 in TT all have the same base torso twist speed levels, and ground speed.

Timby, Nova, Mr Gargles, Mad Dog, for example all have the same base speed and torso twist because of that ratio. Quirks change things up.

The fact the DoomCrow has that 20-25% better torso twist (by the way, the 1E ST gets 5%, only the 2M gets nothing) means it twists faster than the Myth Lynx (a faster movement speed) without quirks, such as the Myth Lynx B variant.


That 25% fudges things. It's one of the FEW clan mechs to get it, and very few of the Lights and Meds can match it.

[bad arcade kitty]

Mcgral18, on 26 May 2015 - 09:02 PM, said:

They wouldn't be outclassed in agility?

by scr

they still be outclassed in agility by any is light and a few is mediums, the whole clan cw deck again became weaker

that's just silly, if you care of clan lights, ask for yaw and armor/structure buffs for them

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 26 May 2015 - 09:26 PM.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Mcgral18, on 26 May 2015 - 09:02 PM, said:

And the Twist Rate follows the TT movement system to a T. Mechs that move 97 in TT all have the same base torso twist speed levels, and ground speed.

....actually, engine rating doesn't affect torso twisting in tabletop. Nothing affects torso twisting in tabletop (outside of special rules for advantages and disadvantages which is where the Quickdraw gets its ability to reverse its arms despite having elbows and hands, for instance. I seem to recall there being an option that lets a 'mech twist up to two hexsides instead of just one, and there is also one for making a 'mech unable to torso twist at all.)

All bipedal tabletop 'mechs can twist one hex facing at the end of their movement, regardless their speed or anything else short of an addon system (except for quads, which have no torso to twist).

Having variable torso twist ranges and speeds is a thing that was introduced after Mechwarrior 3, actually, as previously all 'mechs had the same capabilities in that regard.

bad arcade kitty, on 26 May 2015 - 09:25 PM, said:

that's just silly, if you care of clan lights, ask for yaw and armor/structure buffs for them

Not sure about armor/structure buffs for all of them, but I'd certainly be behind some kind of general buff group for the Adder at least. But then, helping lights is not the subject of this topic; the Stormcrow remaining essentially equally advantaged now to how it was before the anti-laser hits is, and the fact that the laser function reduction hasn't done anything of significance to reduce the Crow's primacy.

Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 26 May 2015 - 09:28 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 26 May 2015 - 09:28 PM, said:

....actually, engine rating doesn't affect torso twisting in tabletop. Nothing affects torso twisting in tabletop (outside of special rules for advantages and disadvantages which is where the Quickdraw gets its ability to reverse its arms despite having elbows and hands, for instance. I seem to recall there being an option that lets a 'mech twist up to two hexsides instead of just one, and there is also one for making a 'mech unable to torso twist at all.)

All bipedal tabletop 'mechs can twist one hex facing at the end of their movement, regardless their speed or anything else short of an addon system (except for quads, which have no torso to twist).

Having variable torso twist ranges and speeds is a thing that was introduced after Mechwarrior 3, actually, as previously all 'mechs had the same capabilities in that regard.

I was talking hex movement; 5/8 (89 Kph) all twist the same

6/9(107), etc...

[Mystere]

Pjwned, on 26 May 2015 - 08:42 PM, said:

How many times are you going to quote yourself saying something stupid and not give any actual argument?

I'm going to quote my post right here repeatedly every time you do this from now on because you're not contributing anything to any discussion when all you do is whine about asymmetric balance in response to every single thing.

Stupid?

Sigh! You're probably just too much of a one-dimensional thinker to get the point.

Edited by Mystere, 26 May 2015 - 09:44 PM.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Mcgral18, on 26 May 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

I was talking hex movement; 5/8 (89 Kph) all twist the same

6/9(107), etc...

Which is speed, but is not torso twist- that's where you went wrong. Not a big deal, but an error in your prior post.

[R0B0TULISM]

Wow, this one sure did degenerate into recriminations and acrimony rather quickly.

Guess the OP didn't conceal his secret "nerf clans and then implement sharia law" agenda well enough. Thanks for the great detective work though, forumites! Now that we know McGral is an anti-clan, space-muslim, reptilian zealot, we can all take appropriate measures to protect "the children" (otherwise known as god-tier robots) from his most wicked depredations. I, for one, will sleep better tonight.

Edited by R0B0TULISM, 26 May 2015 - 09:59 PM.