115 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Ralgas, on 28 May 2015 - 06:36 PM, said:

i'd more like to see lasers get a global range nerf, with clams getting hit slightly harder.

lasers being as/more effective than ballistics at 1k+ is certainly not helping the vomit meta, and closing the gap between clan and is(not removing it, just reducing it) would go a long way towards getting more variety back out there on the battlefield.

Wait, so you would nerf IS lasers too?

Wat

[Mad Strike]

They where already nerferd so NO.

[Templar Dane]

strikebrch, on 28 May 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

They where already nerferd so NO.

But somewhere, sometime, an IS mech will die to a clan mech. Then he'll post on the forums about how OP clan is.

[Ralgas]

FupDup, on 28 May 2015 - 06:45 PM, said:

Wait, so you would nerf IS lasers too?

Wat

So you're saying multiple is Llas isn't meta right now? The idea is to more tightly define the weapon roles. small to med Ballistics become long range, but wont last forever. Short range brawl weaponry gets a buff. Lrms can actually use artemis without fear of getting more damage back before their missiles even get to the target, let alone spread all over it......

[Col Jaime Wolf]

did someone say nerf all the things? NERF ALL THE THINGS! especially those OP P2W clammers OMG they get me everytime so clearly they are OP and P2W because they payed to win against me.

while we are nerfing all the things we shouldnt forget about all the things we didnt nerf before like movement. NO MECH SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO USE AN ENGINE LARGER THAN A STANDARD RATED 100 FUSION ENGINE.

also no light should be allowed to carry any weapon at all they are scouts after all.

get back to me if you think we missed a thing to nerf. also nerf those lrms they are way to OP as well.

[Burktross]

FupDup, on 28 May 2015 - 06:45 PM, said:

Wait, so you would nerf IS lasers too?

Wat

Here I was, thinking that "Everything is op. Nerf everything" was a mere myth. Forum warrior legend. I now see that I was far from the truth.

[FupDup]

Ralgas, on 28 May 2015 - 07:15 PM, said:

So you're saying multiple is Llas isn't meta right now? The idea is to more tightly define the weapon roles. small to med Ballistics become long range, but wont last forever. Short range brawl weaponry gets a buff. Lrms can actually use artemis without fear of getting more damage back before their missiles even get to the target, let alone spread all over it......

The IS Large Laser gets used primarily on mechs with significant quirks for it. On mechs with low quirks or no quirks, the IS LL is not even that great of a weapon. It's kinda mediocre actually, with 9 damage and 7 heat at 450 meters for 5 tons.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

FupDup, on 28 May 2015 - 07:20 PM, said:

The IS Large Laser gets used primarily on mechs with significant quirks for it. On mechs with low quirks or no quirks, the IS LL is not even that great of a weapon. It's kinda mediocre actually, with 9 damage and 7 heat at 450 meters for 5 tons.

i wouldnt say the LL is mediocre on unquirked mechs just not as nice without you know 25%+ on heat reduction, range and duration.

but LPL and ML vomit does look alot more appealing on those unquirked mechs.

[Mystere]

Quote

Nerf Clan Erl And Ml Please

Sigh! It never ends. And this one might be the result of the so-called Battered Person Syndrome.

[Elkfire]

The CERML is already super hot, and the CERLL already has a pretty long burn time.

So no.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Is this really another Nerf the clans thread? Clans are already so over nerfed its not funny. THen the IS have been over buffed, over quirked, get better beam times, better heat eff, despite the 3s DHS and worse stock state....

and clans are the ones who are OP? really? Clan lasers basically are starting to suck, their 2 best mechs got nerfed, their ballistics and missiles suck.....yeah, nerf the clans more....

nerf em any more and ya might as well, refund all clan purchases and remove them, roll the time clock to like 3030 and call it good....

[Dino Might]

Kiiyor, on 28 May 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

If Clan DAKKA has it's burst length shortened, it may make up for current shortfalls in loadout viability.

It will also be the day that I roll out my DakkaWolf, and lay waste to all that lie in front of me.

My quad UAC10 DakkaWolf laughs at all who oppose it, except good light pilots. It's already very good, and what they should do (if anything) is increase projectile speed, but keep burst length the same. It would make the DakkaWolf even better, but it's already OP enough that the delta wouldn't be that significant. 800 damage and 5 kills is a good match, 600 damage 3 kills is average, sub 500 is "woops, got ambushed or did something really stupid"

I guess once my ELO goes up in Assaults, I may sing a different tune, but this is mostly in group queue. I still maintain that Clan UACs just shred things without any sense of hesitation. Don't try playing poke sniper with them. Just run in and unload everything you've got. They are the best in-your-face brawl weapon in the game.

Granted, the following is a small sample size, but this includes all the games from no-skills.
Have not run any modules on it, and I just finished the elite skills on it - only one or two games with the doubled basics so far:
DIRE WOLF DWF-A
24 (matches)
13 (win)
8 (loss)
1.63 (W/L)
44 (kills)
14 (deaths)
3.14 (K/D)
13,103 (damage)
37,806 (XP)
02:20:47

Adder-A with most games sporting a UAC20 and 2ER Smalls ADDER ADR-A
27
14 (wins)
13 (losses)
1.08 (W/L)
22 (kills)
18 (deaths)
1.22 (K/D)
7,974 (damage)
34,569 (XP)
02:51:40

My light class ELO is significantly better than my assault ELO, having spent most of my time in the LCT-1E metamech, hence the worse performance in the recently kitted out Adder.

Edited by Dino Might, 28 May 2015 - 07:42 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

They do not need to nerf all the other clan mechs it was the TW and SC that had the problem.

[Novawrecker]

xWiredx, on 28 May 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

I think we've had enough nerfs now, thanks.

I was waiting for this post (not by you specifically, xWiredx). Sucks to be on the receiving end of soo many nerfs, eh?

[Ralgas]

FupDup, on 28 May 2015 - 07:20 PM, said:

The IS Large Laser gets used primarily on mechs with significant quirks for it. On mechs with low quirks or no quirks, the IS LL is not even that great of a weapon. It's kinda mediocre actually, with 9 damage and 7 heat at 450 meters for 5 tons.

which still makes it quite effective (if overly hot) in the 6-700m range, before we even talk about quirks. Before you even talk about heat efficiency erllas doesn't even get a look in because there's no need to even consider the range (it's overkill unless you're sniping on alpine or down a cw lane). In my head a ballpark (without looking at it too hard) of 15% to is and 20% to clams from med las up should get it pretty close. leave ppc's alone but in the same state they are now (projectile speed keeping them from being too op). Re evaluate quirks of more than 10% to see if they throw it too far out of whack....

The other option ofc is to make maps big enough to accommodate the fact our current fire ranges can be used to cover over half of the area from the get go, but then the fatties start crying about mobility.

Edited by Ralgas, 28 May 2015 - 09:45 PM.

[FupDup]

Ralgas, on 28 May 2015 - 09:38 PM, said:

which still makes it quite effective (if overly hot) in the 6-700m range, before we even talk about quirks. Before you even talk about heat efficiency erllas doesn't even get a look in because there's no need to even consider the range (it's overkill unless you're sniping on alpine or down a cw lane). In my head a ballpark (without looking at it too hard) of 15% to is and 20% to clams from med las up should get it pretty close. leave ppc's alone but in the same state they are now (projectile speed keeping them from being too op). Re evaluate quirks of more than 10% to see if they throw it too far out of whack....

The other option ofc is to make maps big enough to accommodate the fact our current fire ranges can be used to cover over half of the area from the get go, but then the fatties start crying about mobility.

At 700 meters, an unquirked IS LL will deal about 5 damage. That's Medium Laser damage for the weight of 5 Medium Lasers. It's a non-issue.

Frankly, I'd say that the IS ERLL actually is mostly better than the regular LL, because the heat difference is small and the 450m default range is kinda meh for what you pay to get it. Even then, it doesn't really feel that overpowered when I use it or get shot by it. It's an alright gun but not overwhelming or in need of nerfage.


Seriously, there is not a single Inner Sphere laser that is overpowered. Not one. Nada, zilch. You can possibly make an argument for some mechs to get their quirks bumped down, but the IS lasers themselves do not need a global nerfing.

Edited by FupDup, 28 May 2015 - 09:53 PM.

[Ralgas]

FupDup, on 28 May 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

At 700 meters, an unquirked IS LL will deal about 5 damage. That's Medium Laser damage for the weight of 5 Medium Lasers. It's a non-issue.

Frankly, I'd say that the IS ERLL actually is mostly better than the regular LL, because the heat difference is small and the 450m default range is kinda meh for what you pay to get it. Even then, it doesn't really feel that overpowered when I use it or get shot by it. It's an alright gun but not overwhelming or in need of nerfage.


Seriously, there is not a single Inner Sphere laser that is overpowered. Not one. Nada, zilch. You can possibly make an argument for some mechs to get their quirks bumped down, but the IS lasers themselves do not need a global nerfing.

2 other weapon types that are useless in comparison, and brawling.............

Edit: i'm looking big picture, and doing it without pie in the sky redesigning idea's of other weapons that need help (such as srms, lrm's,lbx, clan ac's) reducing the range on lasers bufs the brawlers and as i mentioned above gives more purpose to the ac's, by defualt.....

Edited by Ralgas, 28 May 2015 - 10:08 PM.

[FupDup]

Ralgas, on 28 May 2015 - 10:01 PM, said:

2 other weapon types that are useless in comparison, and brawling...

Part of which is because those two other weapon types have been nerfed in the past for assorted reasons.


Brawling weapons like SRMs, AC/20, and Pulse Lasers (excluding Clan LPL, because its range makes it a general-purpose weapon) are actually viable, it's just that they require specific circumstances (i.e. close range) to function, while some lasers have long enough range to be "general purpose" weapons. This lets them contribute to any situation even if they're not optimal in any one range bracket.

For chaotic and unpredictable Puglandia play, the ability to fight at any range is especially valuable, and highly specialized loadouts aren't always able to get into their comfort zones easily. It's a choice between being really good in one situation but sucking in all others, or being decent in all situations while excelling at none. Many people choose the latter because it's safer and more consistent, while the former can be subject to a "feast or famine" effect.


That aside, the measure of whether something is OP or not isn't just about how much it gets used, it's also about how its ratio of strengths/weaknesses or risks/rewards stack up. For example, the Shadow Hawk was once the undisputed king of the medium class, but it wasn't overpowered because it still suffered from being just a medium (and all that entailed).

Edited by FupDup, 28 May 2015 - 10:10 PM.

[Revis Volek]

lordtzar, on 28 May 2015 - 06:15 PM, said:

According to this, just one quirk would at least make them even.....

edit

I hit enter before finishing.

Was going to say that I'd like to see how they compare once you get the crazy quirks some of the IS mechs have.

They dont compare, add 10% cooldown, 15% heat gen, 15% duration cut....that alone makes the laser 40% better. thus negating this BS.

BUt to the OP, how would this help the Clan mechs that are already in trouble? It would not, Blanket nerfs get nothing done and just make more work later.

Ralgas, on 28 May 2015 - 06:36 PM, said:

i'd more like to see lasers get a global range nerf, with clams getting hit slightly harder.

lasers being as/more effective than ballistics at 1k+ is certainly not helping the vomit meta, and closing the gap between clan and is(not removing it, just reducing it) would go a long way towards getting more variety back out there on the battlefield.

So you want Clans to suck more then IS just come out and say it, enough with the passive aggressive s*%t! Nerfing Lasers will do NOTHING to bring more diversity because Clan Ballistics still suck compared to IS. So you win and we lose...again. All you did was make one side much worse....thanks for the brilliant idea.

You agenda is showing....best tuck it in.

Edited by DarthRevis, 28 May 2015 - 10:32 PM.

[Ralgas]

FupDup, on 28 May 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

Part of which is because those two other weapon types have been nerfed in the past for assorted reasons.


Brawling weapons like SRMs, AC/20, and Pulse Lasers (excluding Clan LPL, because its range makes it a general-purpose weapon) are actually viable, it's just that they require specific circumstances (i.e. close range) to function, while some lasers have long enough range to be "general purpose" weapons. This lets them contribute to any situation even if they're not optimal in any one range bracket.

For chaotic and unpredictable Puglandia play, the ability to fight at any range is especially valuable, and highly specialized loadouts aren't always able to get into their comfort zones easily. It's a choice between being really good in one situation but sucking in all others, or being decent in all situations while excelling at none. Many people choose the latter because it's safer and more consistent, while the former can be subject to a "feast or famine" effect.


That aside, the measure of whether something is OP or not isn't just about how much it gets used, it's also about how its ratio of strengths/weaknesses or risks/rewards stack up. For example, the Shadow Hawk was once the undisputed king of the medium class, but it wasn't overpowered because it still suffered from being just a medium (and all that entailed).

my point though is the line between "general purpose" and "long range" just isn't there any more on current maps, either pulse or regular flavors.

by those changes i mentioned earlier i'm not drastically looking to shorten range (the the erllas loses approx reg 80/160m max) but in the context of other long range weaponry it then makes the ac2/5/10 a lot more attractive. This doubles up on the clammers that all of a sudden only have that range advantage cut in halve and will actually have to work to maintain it

I'm going to shut up for now, i just went to smurfy for some data and saw ballistic lost their 3x max range...... Did it and if so when did that happen? seems i'm out of date on a few things, and it defeats a lot of my argument.......

Edited by Ralgas, 28 May 2015 - 10:27 PM.