387 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Kilo 40, on 29 May 2015 - 07:00 PM, said:

I see comments like this all the time, yet I'm almost always at least in the upper 1/4 in match score/damage/kills if not the top player on the team.

simply put, your comment speaks more about your lack of skill with LRMs more than anything.

No, I can do fine with the right LRM build.


The people who ask for locks cannot. They're just a boring weapon to use.

[InspectorG]

Problem is LRM arent efficient and indirect fire is janky in MWO.

To make LRMs work in a Pug is skill + miracle of teamwork.

But you gotta think of it from the other guy's view:

Someone asks for locks because he has LRM, do yo immediately think he is gonna be right behind you supporting you firing at the best target?

Or is he some newb begging for others to risk their armor so he can live long enough to sneak a killshot in after the heavy lifting was done?

Their positioning skills usually tells their skill.

[DukeRustfield]

Flutterguy, on 29 May 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

Huh, it's the exact opposite for me. I use LRMs but I literally laugh when people use them against me, especially at long ranges. Compared to that, avoiding LRMs nowadays is simply a matter of taking a couple steps to the side in just about any direction.

But you can't. When you're fighting you can't step...you're fighting. In the early stages of involvement you can, but I got 1800 missiles. I'm going to hit you if you're involved in the fight at some point and aren't in a tunnel.

If you want to stay in cover the whole game that's fine. I'd say most games my KGC-0000 plays and we win, he has top 3 score and top 3 kills. It's got a 1.35 K:D ratio, which is pretty decent I think. My KGC-000 is 1.23.

[InspectorG]

masCh, on 29 May 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

All we care about is please press that R key while you're fighting.

I've never been one to say "Lock your targets please" but I always appreciate when someone else says it.

I press R all the time, but i also cycle it quickly making 'holding a lock' fruitless.

'Holding a Lock' REALLY means "hey go risk losing armor so i can hit the badguy"

A dedicated spotter CANNOT fire or position will be given away...so there is 1 mech not doing damage.
The LRM boat firing may hit/may not hit the target if the target can get out of the rain.

So your team is down 1.5 mechs worth of offense just to TRY to get LRM to work.
Mind you a dedicated team can make it work better. Because: practice and teemwork.


Decent LuRMers will TAG for the better lock/damage. Narc is icing on the cake.

LRM would be WAY better if the indirect fire mechanics involved the 'B' map but if it was too strong, direct fire would be obsolete similar to real warfare.

[LordNothing]

teamplay should be where lrm usage shines. unfortunately they are inefficient when compared to laser vomit, even with good scouts on the team.

[InspectorG]

masCh, on 29 May 2015 - 07:11 PM, said:

Sir, you don't get to be on the list of Top 50 on the Catapult leaderboard to have that kind of match happen only once.

And that is, again, besides the point.

The point was, as many times stated, was that mech a waste of one slot?

So you are one of the 10 people who can make good use of LRMs.

Does that make it a VIABLE TACTIC? In Pugs?

[Kilo 40]

Mcgral18, on 29 May 2015 - 07:13 PM, said:

No, I can do fine with the right LRM build.

so...when you use LRMs you are a useful player?

[Bishop Steiner]

Kilo 40, on 29 May 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

so...when you use LRMs you are a useful player?

Nope, he is a waste of a slot. He already said so.

[Nightshade24]

Mcgral18, on 29 May 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

Having a LRM centric build is already being down a useful player.

They are terribly inefficient weapons that are so easy to completely neuter.


They often can't keep up with the deathball, and I'm not about to kill myself trying to support him, while he can't even damage the enemy.
Down a player, without saying a single thing.


I won't insult them when asking for locks; I'll just ignore them. I lock targets when I shoot them. I will not not get locks out of spite, but I won't stop torso twisting so he can pad his stats with useless damage.

They are generally a waste of a player slot.

only if your a bad player with a LRM centric build.


They often stay out of a deathball and heavily support the team mates there by taking out priority targets thus pushing the deathball favour to the friendlies. Only way to support an LRM centric build is to hold locks, and the occasional brushing lights away.
No need to go kill yourself over it, if you do that's a sign that you are incompatible of simple teamwork behaviors.

When people say hold locks, it means do actually lock on an enemy when your attacking them, not switching locks every 2 seconds or keep running away with your tail between your legs, because for eg, you take a heavy mech and engage a very capabile brawler/ mid range build on a kingcrab or atlas or banshee or what have you.

In a 1 vs 1, you would loose quite fast. But since you got an EG lrm stalker, he can easily support you as long as you hold a lock. That's 50-60 damage coming to the king crab every couple seconds. That is quite enough to kill that one mech in a co ordinative play. This is just an example ofc on a slight extreme. However another thing is you could have 2-4 lrm mechs, focused builds or not.

that 50-60 could be 200-240 damage every few seconds.

Anyway, just hold locks when possible and do not be a stupid leeroy who thinks running in to the middle of the enemy team, not shooting, and getting a lock is what the LRM mechs wanted you to do.

Also you should be able to hold a lock while torso twisting.

[InspectorG]

Andi Nagasia, on 29 May 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

i play an LRM-WHK,
4ER-ML 4LRM15(Too much ammo)TC1 CAP)

How i Play?
i am usually just behind the First mech to Push,

In my Pug experience this is NOT how most LRM boat pilots fight.

Likely, also, one of the main reasons you have success with LRMs.

When i pilot a fast light, i look for the murderball. If I see an enemy LRM boat way in the back, i usually get a solo kill.

[CTsai]

Oh alright let me just step in before things gets blown out of proportion.
I was the "second player" that OP mentioned.
So here's what really happened:
Forest colony, our team dropped on the water side spawn.
The LRMer was like "LRM here hold lock" during the start up sequence
I was like "How tagging the targets yourself?" as the team slowly moves toward the archway
The LRMer was like "I can disconnect if you want" while the first few mechs are at the field in front of the archway
So I was like "Yes please".
About 10 or so seconds later the message "LRMer" has killed "LRMer" poped up, followed by "LRMer" has disconnected.

We were down two, but everyone did really well and we ended up winning a really close game.
Fun was had by all, except the LRMer, whom I will not name. He/She did 0 damage and had a match socre of 1, presumably from walking a few meters before blowing him/herslef up.

I should also mention that 1) there was another LRM player piloting a HBK, carrying dual LRM10 and MLs. He/she was doing works, locking onto targets solo and raining down on the enemy.
2) I had the (mis)fortunate of dropping with the "LRMer" a few times over the past few weeks. In all encounters he/she was piloting a CAT A1 with no backup weapons and threw a fit whenever we lose(which was all of them).
3) I ******* love piloting LRM boats that has at least a couple lasers.

[Lightfoot]

PGI set LRMs up to give Light Scout mechs a greater role in the game by allowing them to acquire targets for the LRM mechs. It's up to PGI to take that ability away and give LRMs more of a direct-fire role instead of the support role they have now. That's not happening, ever, so use the R key for the Win.

[Leone]

Honestly, I'm more annoy with the Direct fire players when I play an LRM heavy mech. I pretty much only do well with Clan Long Range Missiles because far too often I find myself having to brawl up or lead a push because no one else wants to get their mech dirty.

Would I do better if someone else got me locks, yes. But I'd also do better if I didn't hafta hold the flank at 100m engagement range. Sometimes our matches just aren't perfect.

Also, not always the players fault if they don't get high damage. My last match the enemy team let me sneak up behind an assault an core it with a firestarter. Can't blame the assault for being focused on the bulk of the enemy forces can you?

~Leone, Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand.

[AvatarofWhat]

the problem is less with lrm's and more with the person asking for locks implying that they are not going to be able to get their own. If they are not exposed to the enemy when the rest of the team is that means they are not sharing armor.

If they are not sharing armor, then that means whatever mechs are upfront are going to be focus fired harder. So essentially what they are asking is for you to die for them so they can pad their damage score with very unfocused damage spread through multiple components.

A good lrm player is using tag to focus missiles and break through ecm, shares their amor, and probably also uses artermis. They dont need to ask for locks because they want to use their tag to make sure as many missiles as possible hit ct.

[Mcgral18]

Kilo 40, on 29 May 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

so...when you use LRMs you are a useful player?

Less useful than a Direct fire one by far.


Depends how bad or good either team is. Unlike direct fire weapons, those aren't nearly as situational.

Bishop Steiner, on 29 May 2015 - 07:32 PM, said:

Nope, he is a waste of a slot. He already said so.

LRM60 King Crab/Atlas

Or LRM20 Hunch?


One is significantly more useful than the other. I'm taking about the waste of a slot.

Feel free to guess which that is.

Edited by Mcgral18, 29 May 2015 - 08:39 PM.

[Pjwned]

Ragtag soldier, on 29 May 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

LRMs have a longer time between firing and actually damaging anything than all other weapons in the game, and you have to maintain the lock that whole time. as a result, any attempt at firing on an enemy that's aware of you is going to result in your taking far more fire than you can unload or the target evading your fire simply because the mechanics of the weapon are balanced away from being useful in an open firing line.

If you take return fire then that means you're within range of return fire, which shouldn't always be the case. Additionally, once you have a solid lock on a mech it's a bit unusual that they can match the damage you're dealing (unless you have some pitiful amount of LRM tubes) because direct fire weapons that deal comparable damage are rather heavy, tend to run hot, rely on ammo, or any combination of those 3 things. If you stare down a gauss + PPC fortress dire wolf then yeah return fire is probably an issue, but otherwise it's not always a major concern

I would also like to ask how often you've tried to return fire while getting pounded by LRMs, because it's a little bit difficult with all the screen shake and doubly so if another enemy is firing at you as well.

Quote

LRMs should expose themselves because piggybacking off an ally's locks is nearly the only way to actually connect unless your opponent team is incredibly dumb. they need a serious buff that they're simply not going to get because of players like you that just want them to go away.

I don't recall saying I want LRMs to go away, I'm saying if you're a bad LRM pilot that never ever tries to find your own locks then play something else instead. Obviously it's not a sin to use a teammate's lock to fire some LRMs, but you should be finding your own locks too.

I do agree that LRMs should be more effective by the way, largely because ECM is such a ridiculous jesus box and needs to be toned down and perhaps people would have a reason to bring 1 AMS again ever.

[Kilo 40]

Mcgral18, on 29 May 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

Less useful than a Direct fire one by far.

then you don't do well with LRMs and apparently don't know how to use them effectively as I said.

If you did, you would be doing as well or better than those using direct fire.

Quote

Depends how bad or good either team is. Unlike direct fire weapons, those aren't nearly as situational.

everything depends on how good your team is. The most meta mech that ever meta'd isn't going to carry a bad team.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 29 May 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

Less useful than a Direct fire one by far.


Depends how bad or good either team is. Unlike direct fire weapons, those aren't nearly as situational.



LRM60 King Crab/Atlas

Or LRM20 Hunch?


One is significantly more useful than the other. I'm taking about the waste of a slot.

Feel free to guess which that is.

ah, so now you start making distinctions? Interesting.

[Carrioncrows]

LRM's are both the most powerful weapon in the game and the most worthless.

Which, depends on 2 factors. How many LRM's your side has and how much ECM the other side has.

The problem is there is zero middle ground.

The switch is either horribly overpowered or worthless.

So until their mechanics are completely rebuilt It will just end up remaining this way. Now LRM's by themselves are not a simple fix because their problem is all tied up in the ECM, Bap and Electronic Warfare that this game doesn't possess.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 29 May 2015 - 09:06 PM.

[darkchylde]

It's a team game - holding locks not only benefits you but also your TEAM.