88 replies to this topic

[BigBenn]

Any word on when further mechs in the "unseen/reseen" category will be added? I'm not "in the know" on what mechs are still "off limits" per say due to the legal happenings, but regardless it seems odd to not have the Warhammer in game.

Thus far, we have the following "unseen/reseen" mechs in game:

Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, Marauder, and Battlemaster

Yeah, I know the Clans could use an update and another wave or two of mechs, but the sooner we get the Warhammer, Marauder, Crusader, Phoenix Hawk, and a few other of the staples in game the happier this BattleTech old timer will be.

[FupDup]

In a nutshell:

Harmony Gold said:

LOLNO

[Alan Davion]

I knew someone would eventually bring up this topic again. I just didn't think it would be this soon.

Thank you BigBenn for proving the theory I posted in some of the recent "Project Phoenix" threads to be true.

Just a couple weeks ago PGI asked if they could re-sell the Locust, Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt, Battlemaster, Griffen and Wolverine again.

This sparked a rather vicious response from both sides of the community, and while I still believe that the poll should have been disregarded due to a large number of people saying they voted no purely out of spite, the nays won.

As far as the Warhammer and others. Those specific mechs are almost 'persona non grata' due to their use in the Robotech/Macross anime, which Harmony Gold tries to protect with a vengeance.

PGI has 3 options before them with regard to the Warhammer and others.

1. They can negotiate a deal with both HG and the movie studio currently working on a supposed Robotech live action movie, which would likely require someone from HG to supervise the art process.

2. They can just go ahead and make the Warhammer and others, and hope they survive the inevitable fallout from HG.

or 3. They can do absolutely nothing.

I, and many others, believe at this point that number 3 is the most likely answer at this point, given the collective outcry over the attempt to bring back the first wave of Phoenix mechs.

Ask yourself this, if you were in control of PGI, and you saw the fallout over the attempt to bring back the first run of Phoenix mechs, would you then, in all honesty, try to bring in a 2nd wave of the Phoenix mechs with the level of forum fallout seen over the first wave looming over your head?

[Foxwalker]

BigBenn, on 07 June 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

Any word on when further mechs in the "unseen/reseen" category will be added? I'm not "in the know" on what mechs are still "off limits" per say due to the legal happenings, but regardless it seems odd to not have the Warhammer in game.

Thus far, we have the following "unseen/reseen" mechs in game:

Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, Marauder, and Battlemaster

Yeah, I know the Clans could use an update and another wave or two of mechs, but the sooner we get the Warhammer, Marauder, Crusader, Phoenix Hawk, and a few other of the staples in game the happier this BattleTech old timer will be.

Marauder? Really? Slip of the wishful thinking.

[BigBenn]

Having been here in MWO since Jan '15, I'm not up on a lot of the drama, obviously. I guess I'll do a deeper search and read up on all the "Pheonix" mech resell/re-do stuff. Not much came up when I searched earlier on the topic.

As far what would I do of I were PGI? Doing nothing would be on the very bottom of the list.

[MechaBattler]

Well Russ did mention in a Townhall Meeting that they were talking about the unseen internally. He off handily said something about saving up money for a legal fund, in the event that HG tries to take them to court. But he didn't sound terribly serious in my opinion. Felt more like he was throwing it out just to get the fanboy hearts fluttering.

Edited by MechaBattler, 07 June 2015 - 07:47 PM.

[EgoSlayer]

All you need to know is here:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Unseen

Any of the Macross/Robotech designs are what Harmon Gold has the rights to and won't release so we are unlikely to see them. The Reseen we have for the Phoenix pack are mostly Dougram designs. Nothing has changed, although Russ did mention in a recent town hall that he reached out to HG again after the Robotech movie annoucement was made. If anything the rights issue is worse now.

Here is the list of what we can't have:

Quote

Wasp - VF-1S
Wasp LAM - VF-1S
Stinger - VF-1A
Stinger LAM - VF-1A
Valkyrie - VF-1S
Phoenix Hawk - VF-1S Super Valkyrie
Phoenix Hawk LAM - VF-1S Super Valkyrie
Crusader - VF-1A Armored Valkyrie

• Destroids

Rifleman - ADR-04-Mk.X Destroid Defender
Archer - MBR-07-Mk.II Destroid Spartan
Warhammer - MBR-04-Mk.VI Destroid Tomahawk
Longbow - SDR-04-Mk.XII Destroid Phalanx

• Zentradi Tactical Pods

Marauder - Glaug Commander Type
Marauder II - Glaug Commander Type

Edited by EgoSlayer, 07 June 2015 - 08:09 PM.

[Kiiyor]

I'd love it, but PGI in the past have been pretty adamant that they aren't touching it. Nope. Nuh-uh.

[x Marder x]

Or they give the other guys some money from every sold unit.

Its sit on your rights and have nothing or earn somthing.

[ScarecrowES]

PGI can use reseen mechs. There is no reason they can't. They just cannot use a visual representation of those mechs that looks anything like the original visual assets that represented them when they were originally released. Any visual design would have to be sufficiently different to not incur the wrath of HG.

The more recent designs for the Warhammer and Marauder are already different enough that HG has not sued over them. An adaptation of those designs updated for MWO would be further from the originals. There is no reason PGI couldn't do this if they wanted to. They just have to be sure to keep on the far side of design.

[AnimosityMonk]

Alan Davion, on 07 June 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

I knew someone would eventually bring up this topic again. I just didn't think it would be this soon.

Thank you BigBenn for proving the theory I posted in some of the recent "Project Phoenix" threads to be true.

Just a couple weeks ago PGI asked if they could re-sell the Locust, Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt, Battlemaster, Griffen and Wolverine again.

This sparked a rather vicious response from both sides of the community, and while I still believe that the poll should have been disregarded due to a large number of people saying they voted no purely out of spite, the nays won.

Seriously, your side lost that vote fairly. The people who voted no out of spite were those pissed at the nerfs on the Timberwolf and Stormcrow and were a small number compared to the people who voted no to keep PGI at their word when they sold those mechs. Telling someone that your side lost because "Jerks didn't want to share" is just sour grapes. Grow up.

Edited by Animus41, 08 June 2015 - 09:02 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

ScarecrowES, on 08 June 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

There is no reason PGI couldn't do this if they wanted to. They just have to be sure to keep on the far side of design.

Actually there is a reason.
The elitists that won't take anything but the original designs.

I'm one of the people that doesn't hate the Reseen designs and wouldn't mind seeing them MWO-ized and added into the game, but i doubt i'm in the majority.

And even if they used Reseen designs, it doesn't guarantee that HG won't have a shitfit and sue anyway

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 08 June 2015 - 09:11 AM.

[Stelar 7]

EgoSlayer, on 07 June 2015 - 08:06 PM, said:

All you need to know is here:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Unseen

Any of the Macross/Robotech designs are what Harmon Gold has the rights to and won't release so we are unlikely to see them. The Reseen we have for the Phoenix pack are mostly Dougram designs. Nothing has changed, although Russ did mention in a recent town hall that he reached out to HG again after the Robotech movie annoucement was made. If anything the rights issue is worse now.

Here is the list of what we can't have:

You forgot the Osttrock, Ostsol and Ostscout.

All battlepods, ish.

[EgoSlayer]

Stelar 7, on 08 June 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

You forgot the Osttrock, Ostsol and Ostscout.

All battlepods, ish.

According to the sarna link, they are no longer unseen:

Quote

• Returned

In December of 2011, BattleTech's line developer ruled that the Ostscout, Ostsol, and Ostroc were sufficiently different from their inspiration (Regult Scout Pod, Regult Battle Pod, and Regult Heavy Missile Pod, respectively) to be removed from the "Unseen" list.^[3]

[Kenoshi]

Who needs the unseen, just give me my cauldron born and executioner already...preferably with a working axe.

Where's my Kodiak while we're at it?!?

I wouldn't want to be in a Marauder the hit box would be horrid.

[CDLord HHGD]

Well, I hear the OST mechs are free and clear...

Ostroc
Ostscout
Ostsol

EDIT: Doh! Ninja'd....

Edited by cdlord, 08 June 2015 - 09:25 AM.

[stjobe]

Juodas Varnas, on 08 June 2015 - 09:09 AM, said:

Actually there is a reason.
The elitists that won't take anything but the original designs.

I'm one of the people that doesn't hate the Reseen designs and wouldn't mind seeing them MWO-ized and added into the game, but i doubt i'm in the majority.

And even if they used Reseen designs, it doesn't guarantee that HG won't have a shitfit and sue anyway

I'm one of the guys who love the old Unseen 'mechs; I started playing BattleTech with the 2nd edition boxed set (you know, the one with the Warhammer all over the front of the box). I look back at the Unseen designs with rose-tinted nostalgia and would love to one day be able to pilot them in a computer game.

Having said that though, I also wouldn't mind the Unseen after PGI (or rather Alex) has MWO-ized them. The original (Macross) designs wouldn't fit MWO's aesthetics anyway.

The question is, would that make them dissimilar enough that HG wouldn't sue? And is that a risk PGI is willing to take?

I'll take a Warhammer designed by Alex, or a Marauder designed by Alex - even though I'm a die-hard 2nd edition, TRO 3025, no freaking Clans in my BattleTech universe kind of guy.

Edited by stjobe, 08 June 2015 - 09:33 AM.

[Alan Davion]

Animus41, on 08 June 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

Seriously, your side lost that vote fairly. The people who voted no out of spite were those pissed at the nerfs on the Timberwolf and Stormcrow and were a small number compared to the people who voted no to keep PGI at their word when they sold those mechs. Telling someone that your side lost because "Jerks didn't want to share" is just sour grapes. Grow up.

Actually it is pretty much what you just said, people didn't want to 'share' the Phoenix mechs, or did you miss all the ranting and raving over 'exclusivity'?

Actually I think you were one of the people constantly tooting that horn.

Guess what, you've had your 'exclusivity' for 3 years, 3 F-ing years. You want me to grow up, well, guess what, you kind of need to do a little bit of that yourself.

Judging by your forum badge you have all the Phoenix mechs. Now, let me ask you something.

After you bought them, how long did it take you to elite and/or master them? And, after you reached elite/master, how often did you play those (P) mechs, or did you move on to other mechs until the Phoenix event?

Which was, what, oh, yeah, 3 years later.

[Lyoto Machida]

Alan Davion, on 07 June 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

I knew someone would eventually bring up this topic again. I just didn't think it would be this soon.

Thank you BigBenn for proving the theory I posted in some of the recent "Project Phoenix" threads to be true.

Just a couple weeks ago PGI asked if they could re-sell the Locust, Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt, Battlemaster, Griffen and Wolverine again.

This sparked a rather vicious response from both sides of the community, and while I still believe that the poll should have been disregarded due to a large number of people saying they voted no purely out of spite, the nays won.

As far as the Warhammer and others. Those specific mechs are almost 'persona non grata' due to their use in the Robotech/Macross anime, which Harmony Gold tries to protect with a vengeance.

PGI has 3 options before them with regard to the Warhammer and others.

1. They can negotiate a deal with both HG and the movie studio currently working on a supposed Robotech live action movie, which would likely require someone from HG to supervise the art process.

2. They can just go ahead and make the Warhammer and others, and hope they survive the inevitable fallout from HG.

or 3. They can do absolutely nothing.

I, and many others, believe at this point that number 3 is the most likely answer at this point, given the collective outcry over the attempt to bring back the first wave of Phoenix mechs.

Ask yourself this, if you were in control of PGI, and you saw the fallout over the attempt to bring back the first run of Phoenix mechs, would you then, in all honesty, try to bring in a 2nd wave of the Phoenix mechs with the level of forum fallout seen over the first wave looming over your head?

I love how you keep trying to tie the reselling of the Phoenix package to Harmony Gold's issue with unseen mechs being used by PGI.

The fallout over bringing back the Phoenix package has nothing to do with Harmony Gold...it has everything to do with PGI/IGP claiming that they'd never be sold again.

Feel free to keep trying to convolute the issue though...maybe you'll succeed in getting one or two new forum visitors confused.

Alan Davion, on 08 June 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

Actually it is pretty much what you just said, people didn't want to 'share' the Phoenix mechs, or did you miss all the ranting and raving over 'exclusivity'?

Actually I think you were one of the people constantly tooting that horn.

Guess what, you've had your 'exclusivity' for 3 years, 3 F-ing years. You want me to grow up, well, guess what, you kind of need to do a little bit of that yourself.

Judging by your forum badge you have all the Phoenix mechs. Now, let me ask you something.

After you bought them, how long did it take you to elite and/or master them? And, after you reached elite/master, how often did you play those (P) mechs, or did you move on to other mechs until the Phoenix event?

Which was, what, oh, yeah, 3 years later.

How about moving on and focusing your energy on something else that you can affect? Because in the end, those Phoenix mechs aren't getting resold...

[reign]

Lyoto Machida, on 08 June 2015 - 10:36 AM, said:

I love how you keep trying to tie the reselling of the Phoenix package to Harmony Gold's issue with unseen mechs being used by PGI.

The fallout over bringing back the Phoenix package has nothing to do with Harmony Gold...it has everything to do with PGI/IGP claiming that they'd never be sold again.

Feel free to keep trying to convolute the issue though...maybe you'll succeed in getting one or two new forum visitors confused.

The OP was talking about adding additional unseen/reseen mechs to a new type pheonix package to sell.

The remaining ones are all owned by HG

Edited by reign, 08 June 2015 - 10:49 AM.