21 replies to this topic

[50 50]

The basis of this post is to provide some suggestions and reasoning for improving the command options in the game. (I'll add graphics if get the chance... Edit: This is a big post)
I am breaking this down into 4 sections:
(Edit: provided more of a summary)

• Improved functionality of the Battlegrid as a new Strategic Command Interface by:
  Greatly increasing the functionality as a new dedicated command interface.
  Adding in various RTS elements to give value to the role of a commander.
  To ensure that there is enough game play for a dedicated commander role.
  
• The introduction of a dedicated Commander role for the matches as a 13th player for each team.
  So there is no inactive mech while a player uses the enhanced functionality
  To add a new dimension to the game play through new game elements.
  Increase player interaction and co-ordination.
  
• New game elements to tie in with the role and function.
  To create a dynamic between the mechwarriors and the commander so they benefit from each other.
  Introduce new objectives for players in terms of protecting/destroying command assets such as the command vehicle and weapon installations.
  Expand the game beyond just mech combat and a few turrets.
  
• Rewards and Achievements for Commanders and Mechwarriors.
  To provide incentives to go along with the role
  Bring in bonuses for the new objectives for both Mechwarriors and the Commander

Strategic Command Interface (SCI)

Spoiler

At present the Battelgrid and it's current functionality is fairly clunky and limited.
Very rarely do you see it used in game as it was intended due to:
A ) It takes the user away from piloting their mech
B ) You contribute very little to the success of your team for using the functionality
The new functionality for the SCI would only be available to a dedicated commander.
This would include a lot of functionality typically seen in real time strategy games:

• Hotkey functionality to support the selection/deselection of lances.
  
• Lance member management
  
• Lance member details
  
• Hotkey functionality to support the issuing of commands.
  
• Hotkey functionality to use consumables.
  
• Being able to create new groups and assign players to that group. ie. Scouts, Mediums, Assaults, Missile Support etc.
  
• Hotkey assignment for commander created group selection/deselection.
  
• Identification of selected mech/lance/group on the map. ie. They flash, change colour or are highlighted.
  
• Highlight of player in team list when selected on the map.
  
• Enable waypoint settings for mechs/lances/groups.
  
• Enabling right mouse click for commands/waypoints when a mech/lance or group is selected.
  
• Enabling right mouse click for using consumables when no mech/lance or group is selected.
  
• The option for a VOIP filter to Lance Commanders only. ie. A command channel.
  
• Display of information gathered by players on the enemy.
  
• Being able to create enemy groups and assign enemy players to that group. ie. Assaults, Heavies, Tango, Zulu etc.
  
• Hotkey assignment for commander created enemy group selection/deselection.
  
• Hotkey commands to support commands for enhanced information warfare.
  
• Enabling right mouse click commands for enhanced information warfare.
  
• Identification of selected enemy mech/group on the map if they are currently visible. ie. They flash, change colour or are highlighted.
  
• Highlight of enemy in Information Panel when selected on the map.

Some additional functions to be added for Community Warfare matches:

• Ability to delay reinforcements in CW until there are a certain number of players ready. (Can be overridden by players so as to circumvent negative play by the commander)
  
• Ability to specify new locations for drops in CW.(Could be done as orbital drops)
  
• Deployment of additional assets for the team.(Should combined arms elements be introduced, see below)
  
• Ability to call in additional re-inforcements. (Should CW be expanded to allow longer games and more players to join a match)

The Dedicated Commander

Spoiler

With the increase of functionality, a more dedicated commander role will allow a player to devote their time to managing the battle from the SCI without the team losing the firepower of a single mech.
The option to become a commander needs to be removed from the in game player list and is instead determined by a player selecting a new 'Command Vehicle' as their drop for the match instead of taking a mech.
There is no change to the lance commander function as these are dynamic roles filled by the players who are in the heat of the battle. The command ability of the lance commander should not involve the battlegrid but be a dynamic menu or command rose. Perhaps this is a good option for one of the screens in the cockpits.
This post has some ideas that I believe would be ideal for lance command but I would suggest they appear on the little monitors so as not to block the view:
http://mwomercs.com/...res-for-pilots/
The reason for having a 'Command Vehicle' is to allow the match maker to function correctly and only create games with one commander per team.
However, having this option does not need to be essential to the start of a match and teams should be able to drop without a commander if there is not one available.
We can also expect and cater for PUG commanders dropping in to matches to fill this spot but can expect groups and units to have commanders fill the role before joining a match.
The conditions for winning a match do not need to change and if all mechs are destroyed it is still the end of the match regardless of whether the commander is alive or not.
By introducing the 'Command Vehicle' we create an objective for teams to both defend their commander, as well as scout out and destroy the enemy command vehicle.
Eliminating the Commander removes their functionality from the match and therefore any advantage they might have provided.
To make the scouting of the enemy commander's location a proper challenge, the commander should be able to designate their own drop location on the map within a limited area.
Given the terrain on some maps, I would suggest that the vehicle cannot move and is simply dropped in via it's own dropship.
For Community Warfare, the Commander has no tonnage restriction but would also have no respawn. The role is taken for the match, not a single drop.
Other than providing strategic guidance, the Commander should be able to make use of consumables such as Airstrikes and Artillery at the request of the players in the mechs.
Some additional consumable options such as a flyby and Arrow 4 missile strike can be added to provide some more options.There is also the possibility to add in other combined arms units such as tanks, helicopters and infantry for deployment and direct control by the commander. These deployed assets would be ideal for expanding the scope of Community Warfare, more on this below.

New Game Elements

Spoiler

• The functionality listed above for the SCI would require some updates to the Battlegrid UI to add in the new options for the commander.
  
• At the match ready screen, the commander needs to have an option to mark the drop point for their command vehicle and consumable/deployable assets on the map (see below).
  
• The commander should also be able to perform lance and group management and set some initial objectives on the map while the match countdown is underway. This would create a foundation for a 'Briefing' before the mission starts.
  
• Commands issued by the commander to be displayed in one of the monitors in the cockpit in addition to the mini-map. This will be useful for setting objectives, waypoints and designating a target.
  
• A new vehicle asset that can be modified in the mechlab so camo schemes and consumables may be chosen. The command vehicle should be unarmed.
  
• The command vehicle needs to be targettable by enemy players and can be destroyed but will have some default defensive options to improve survivability such as an ECM.
  
• Improved options could be made available if a set of skills were also associated with the command vehicle though these would have to be quite different to the existing mech skills.
  
• The player listings need to have the extra slot visible for the commander.
  
• Changes to the behaviour/function of the airstrike and artillery consumables for the mechs so that these instead become 'requests' for the commander to then act on. The same timer/cooldown can be used along with the smoke marker, but this is an interaction between the players and the commander where by the commander then 'pulls the trigger' to launch the attack. For the mechwarriors it can then be a single 'Mark Target for strike' option that has no cost.

The reason to restrict the actual use of these consumables to the commander is to create that dynamic between the players and bring value to having a commander in the matches.

• The consumables instead of being a one shot use, become more of a deployed asset on the map. ie. The commander gets the artillery battery or the Aerospace guidance vehicle dropped at a location on the map. Once deployed it can then be activated when the mechwarriors call in a strike.This requires some new vehicle assets to be added. They don't need to move but can have an animation and sound effect when firing. They can have the same defensive measures as the command vehicle and have the same camo scheme

The reason to manage it this way is once again to create a dynamic between the command assets and the mechwarriors. As with the command vehicle they become objectives for players to attack and defend therefore building on the scope of the game.

• New consumables for the commander to use:
  Flyby - the existing airstrike animation with the aerospace planes can be used but it functions as a radar sweep.
  Arrow 4 missile launch - May require a target to be specified/locked by a mechwarrior and the arrow 4 missile is directed speficially at that target. A nice Betty: "Arrow 4 missile launch detected" can be added so a player knows they are about to be hit by what is effectively a cruise missile.
  
• New consumables for the mechs to replace the loss of artillery and air strikes. The following post had some good ideas that were more individual to the mechs:
  http://mwomercs.com/...ew-consumables/
  
• More Deployable assets. These are things such as tanks, helicopters and infantry. How elaborate they are is a discussion for another post and there have been plenty of them on the forums. However a simple 'turret like' option that can be directed around the map by the commander and given some simple orders would be a sufficient starting point
  Some posts for reference:
  http://mwomercs.com/...ew-consumables/
  http://mwomercs.com/...umables-for-cw/
  http://mwomercs.com/...rrets-on-rails/

Rewards and Achievements

Spoiler

As the Commander will miss out on many of the match rewards a new set of specifically for the commander would need to be
added so as to provide incentives and compensation for taking on the role.
Damage dealt by the consumables can still be measured, as could any kills recorded from them.
The survival or destruction of command assets can be a reward given to all players.
Commands issued and successfully undertaken could also provide rewards to all the players.
Should a command skill tree be added, then the rewards can also include XP bonuses.
The success of a commander could be measured by how many of that team's mechs and assets survive the match and provide
reward scaled accordingly.
Flowing on from rewards would be command achievements.

Look forward to hearing your comments and feedback.

Edited by 50 50, 21 June 2015 - 07:15 PM.

[Vellron2005]

This posts desperately needs "too long, to lazy to read" short bullet point version on the bottom..

[50 50]

Thanks Vellron.
Hopefully this is a little easier to read now.

[Xoco]

Don't know what would be a good change, but the current interface definitely isn't working. I think for starter, use BF2/3 circular command menu, coupled with ping system similar to LoL/HotS would be mighty helpful.

[50 50]

There are some good posts about introducing a command wheel.
Personally I think that sort of function would be great at the lance command level and have it display menu options on one of the monitors in the cockpit.
It's better for quicker commands, which is partially managed with the VOIP now. Just lacks a visual aspect.

I'm thinking of a higher level view, more of a strategic view to the matches.
To use BF2 as an example, when you had one player take on the dedicated role of the commander, invariably your team did much better. You could do that in BF2 as it had more players per match, and losing one from your team did not mean losing a significant amount of fire power.
The benefit of having the commander far outweighed the loss of the player's direct involvement.

[Generic Internetter]

I agree.
There are many other real-time strategy games out there that offer a similar feature. It works well and makes the battle play out more strategically.

They should give the commander the ability to place waypoints, much the same way that AI commanders did in previous MechWarrior games (granted, those were pre-placed in the level deign, but that isn't an issue).
The waypoints would essentially be the same as the existing waypoints we have, except they would actually show on the screen in a green box (again like previous MechWarrior games), and on the minimap.

In fact, I'd even suggest a camera drone for the commander to be able to zoom around and see things, kind of like a UAV without any radar of its own. Maybe make the drone completely invisible (IE no visible model) to prevent abuse.

I think this would work very well in all game types and modes, including Quick Play.
This would help the new players to get a feel for the 'team' element of the game. Good for helping them survive and get into the rhythm for CW further down the road. It would help them graphically and with pacing (when to hold, when to push, etc).

I still see too many Trial Lights sprinting into the enemy and dropping like flies. Those new players trying the game might ragequit before the ever get a chance to enjoy a proper battle... Or spend any MC ($$$!!!)

[50 50]

Re: the camera drone, this could tie in with the UAVs that the mechs deploy and the commander could access a camera view and perhaps through that trigger certain actions.
It creates a good team work dynamic between the mechwarriors and the commander.
ie. The commander can ask a scout to move to a location on the map and launch a UAV. So they setup a waypoint marker for the scout with it's own icon on the map and compass. The scout gets there and deploys the UAV so the commander can then utilize the camera and additional functions... kind of thinking that this would be a good way to use an ARROW4 guided missile strike as one of the commander's options.
Could put in a small 'objective' reward for the scout and the commander as well.

It also opens up the possibility for other similar consumables to be added for mechs that tie in with command functions.
For example, deployment beacons that allow the commander to drop in turrets at the location the mech drops the beacon.

These interactions would obviously work better in a group as they can co-ordinate what they will take before dropping into battle.
It would be a little more random in the solo drops so the commander does need enough independent functionality to make the role useful.

In case anyone was wondering, the way I pictured the commander joining the match was to select the command vehicle like you do a mech. It simply fills a command spot for a team. In solo drops where we still have the 3/3/3/3 it becomes a 3/3/3/3/1 setup.
Doesn't count towards group tonnage limits and is not part of any lance.
Having the command vehicle means players could have a specific skill tree,(when those are looked at again for redesign).
There could be some variations in the vehicles to load some defensive options. (ie. they have a turret).
Put some camo on them, modules etc. Give the option to personalize and make it your own.
Having the vehicle creates a targetable object that enemy players can try to locate and eliminate and therefore we get a little side mission in the games with it's own reward.

[adamts01]

I really only see something like this working with CW pre-mades. This community avoids teamwork like the plague. Group que is slightly better than pugging it, but only ever seen slightly. With as little as voip is used, I don't see much point in expanding it. You do have some interesting ideas though, my negativity is towards the community, not your proposals.

[Khobai]

Having dedicated commanders is entirely pointless in one-life gamemodes.

It only takes 2 seconds for a mech to die in this game. TTK is way too low for players to process an order before they die. Its way better to just not have stupid players on your team in the first place than to have a dedicated commander. Plus the games are over in like 6-8 minutes (and often decided well before that) so having a dedicated commander in a gamemode that short is stupid.

The only way I can see dedicated commanders working is in a longer gamemode with ticket-based respawns specifically designed around each team having a dedicated commander. And I see no reason the commander shouldnt be in command mech.

Quote

In case anyone was wondering, the way I pictured the commander joining the match was to select the command vehicle like you do a mech.

commanders pilot command mechs. the whole idea of a 13th player in a remedial command vehicle is dumb.

it should be at the commanders discretion whether or not to engage his mech in combat. are you better off hanging back and directing the team or are you better off engaging the enemy? Or are you skilled enough to do both at the same time?

and you dont have to add a 13th player to each team then, you can just use the existing 12v12.

Edited by Khobai, 11 January 2016 - 07:34 AM.

[Commander A9]

Like Battlefield 2. I like this idea.

Tactical Operations Officer.

[butchly13]

Just throwing it out there, but if there were to be a dedicated Commander (ie the 13th player) I feel the maps would need to grow a bit. I'm still pretty fresh but I don't feel the map sizes are conducive to major strategic initiatives because the battles last a matter of 10 minutes or so typically. Furthermore most engagements I've noticed focus on one or two bottlenecks in the middle of the map instead of random locations in different matches.

In most cases, I've noticed that the winning team is the one with the strongest push or the most coordination, not the one with better scouts, or better tactical positioning (except the high ground on the much beloved Alpine Peaks). If the maps were to double in size it might actually pay off to have dedicated scouts who take a few different paths to scout out the enemy because it'll take 3 minutes for the assaults to make it to the middle of the map.

If this were the case, good scouts with a skilled Commander could direct the different weight classes, lances, or individuals to the proper positioning, possibly saving someone minutes of roaming around in the wrong direction.

Alternatively, having a fly-over view of the battlefield like when they broadcast bigger matches would be cool with the commander being able to see his team and their loadouts along with ONLY enemy mechs that are currently being targeted.

Again, I'm pretty new to the game, I love what I've seen so far, but I like to spitball random ideas. It seems to get the creative juices flowing for others even if my initial ideas are crap. Any thoughts?

Edited by butchly13, 11 January 2016 - 01:09 PM.

[50 50]

@Khobai
The main point I am seeing from your post is the duration of the matches not allowing the role enough time to work effectively.
While certainly some matches can be very quick, others can be right down to the wire.

I am all for an ongoing battle where players can rejoin or new players can replace those killed as a sort of territorial domination mode. But that is a discussion for a different thread.

Because the game is at the limit for the number of mechs, having a command vehicle for a 13th player that does not need all those extra resources and is a way to get more players into a battle, increase the depth and add another layer to the team aspect of the game.
It also introduces a mini objective for both teams which is something players have also wanted for the battles.

The battlegrid as it is has very limited functionality and is not overly intuitive to use and at this point in time, VOIP directions are much more effective.
A full RTS game has a lot of additional micro-management details such as resource collection, construction and research as well as unit direction. I am not suggesting that level of detail in this proposal.
The level of functionality needs to be relevant to the style and length of the matches.
I would also treat it as an optional role so that matches can begin without someone dropping as the commander but significant enough that a team with a commander will have an advantage so it is worth while.

@Butchly13
You are quite right. A larger map would make a difference.
Often on a map such as Alpine, River City, Caustic Valley or Forest Colony it will take a few minutes before the enemy is sighted and the first shots are fired.
Where this role would come into effect would be to help direct the team around the map, relay information to the mechwarriors on enemy positions and change bottlenecks.
While there are good battlefield commanders that will make the calls during the matches as they battle, they have to rely on communication from other team members about enemy movements so they can make calls accordingly. It's a dynamic and reactive role requiring good situational awareness.
But a commander that has an overview of the battle can track things a lot easier, act as a conduit for the information and plan in a way that someone in the thick of battle cannot.

This role is not going to change the time to kill (TTK) a single mech, but it may change how the battles play out and how long they go for.

Edited by 50 50, 11 January 2016 - 11:12 PM.

[Mannson]

I'd like to see this experimented somehow.. or atleast the inbuilt order issuing streamlined.

No one has the time, especially in battle, to click several times around in battlegrid, find an icon and hope the icon is actually what the leader wanted.

I mean, there's explanations of the icons, why can't we drag them to the battlegrid and then drag a lance on that order and that's it (for company leaders)

But yeah, 13th guy should have much wider tools to disposal, VoiceIP is all great and stuff, but sometimes having visual orders is nice. Naturally there should be minor reward for both, answering to order and issuing them. Something in the magnitude of "lance in formation"

[50 50]

After the introduction of the scout missions and the bonuses provided from them.
I would be nice to have that functionality at the hands of a Commander instead of an automatic process that may be just as deadly to your own team.
I would change a few aspects of the scout rewards, but it creates an interesting link between the scouts, the commander and the invasion group.
There is potential to have a large number of different options added.

[Karl Streiger]

While it would be great to have eyes in the sky and a commander with a less limited view - its also removes the thrill of commanding in the field.

Its a pitty that PGI developed the command tools only rudimentary. But we have almost everything we need.
1 Company Leader
2 Lance Leader
3 BattleGrid with switchable icons per lance - or is it gone (last time i did use the Grid was on a Monday before they almost killed MWO with ECM)

The battlegrid should allow to set navpoints in the hud of your team mates
The target the company or lance leader have choosen (or even fired at have to be highlighted)
the lance and company lead should not be a volunteer option, following orders (move to wavepoint has to be payed)
a command rose or a quick menu type of some orders could be helpful for communications too.
Company and Lance leader points are granted after the battle.

So why not to use VOIP?
Its not very accurate and it doesn't work good when you drop with guys you are not familiar with. During my first drop leads in CLosed Beta i tended to control leach player (like i was used to by plaing BT)

But MWO is not BT - commands have to be simple - and a battlegrid and command menu only allow simple and more important specific orders

[VinJade]

I have some concerns
1) as it stands now the commander must have leadership qualities and the ability to hold the unit together which is far easier said than done i am sorry to say.

2) We have to be able to understand the commander and seeing as we have players from around the world, some accents are harder to understand than others, for example I have an easier time understanding middle eastern accents than I do with those who are from Japan.

Or if someone is from a different part of the world might have a hard time understanding those from the southern US or from Australia, ect

3) What true reason would someone have to ever be a commander if the unit cannot work together and the Commander gets screwed because of it?

In the end I just don't know how well it would actually be worth it?

In the past I only pay attention to a few players and tend to ignore others because they just lack something important.

Edited by VinJade, 27 April 2016 - 09:46 AM.

[Ialdabaoth]

Honestly, just un-nerf the Clans, and then make all Faction Warfare games [12+1] vs. 10.

Problem solved.

[Karl Streiger]

Just remove the Clans - and problem solved argumentation

[Johnny Z]

+1 for support roles.

[50 50]

Thanks for the feedback guys.
I believe there was mention of a command rose being introduced at some point... I think.
This is great for quick visual commands and would assist with the language barrier.

Obviously not everyone is suited to the role of a commander and some simply aren't interested.
However, by creating a 'command post' as an option you select in your mechbay, have to purchase and all of that, you then also add in the conscious decision for a player to buy and then use it which should naturally filter players.

Karl, you make the very valid point about the battlegrid and it's limited functionality and the last time you used it. I would suggest that this view is not uncommon amongst the player base. I would suggest that the command functions be removed from it and the command rose be introduced for lance and company commanders with different options.. Have the battlegrid act as an information source for the players in the mechs and then have a more advanced system available for the commander.

The VOIP is good, but appropriate visual indicators should go along with any functionality.

Edited by 50 50, 28 April 2016 - 04:37 AM.