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Does The Is Gauss Cannon Really Need Charge Up For Is Mechs?


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#21 Speedy Plysitkos

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 01:32 AM

View Postmeteorol, on 22 June 2015 - 12:58 AM, said:



If by useless you mean one of the best weapons in game, and for clans the undisputed best ballistic weapon, then yeah that's totally what they did.


best doesnt mean, i have to not enjoy when firing the weapon.

#22 CMDR Sunset Shimmer

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 01:34 AM

View PostKiiyor, on 22 June 2015 - 01:28 AM, said:


I understand it should, if it were referring to BT rules, but the concept is silly.


No, the concept was a balance decision for tabletop to keep said long range weaponry from being effective in brawling range.

#23 Wintersdark

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 01:48 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 22 June 2015 - 01:29 AM, said:

I wouldn't complain, but I know others would. AC5 and AC2 do not require a recharging of Magnetic Capacitors and as such really don't have a "reason" to have a trigger delay.

PPC... yes charging capacitors are there as well, and could use a 2 second delay. 90 meter minimum after all. ;)
but putting in a charge delay on PPC's would be counter to why the added it to gauss in the first place - to make simultaneously firing them difficult.

View PostFlash Frame, on 22 June 2015 - 01:34 AM, said:


No, the concept was a balance decision for tabletop to keep said long range weaponry from being effective in brawling range.
much like why we still have the charge delay, explosiveness, etc.

Back in the day, the gauss rifle was THE ballistic. For every role. Brawling? Range sniping? All gauss. Now the GR is great at range but very difficult to use well up close. Still handily the best clan Ballistic, but there are good reasons to use other IS ballistics at least, so it seems to be working as intended.

#24 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 01:56 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 22 June 2015 - 01:48 AM, said:

but putting in a charge delay on PPC's would be counter to why the added it to gauss in the first place - to make simultaneously firing them difficult.
You say that as if I would actually care what the whiners want Winters. I supported a reduction on convergence over any type of trigger delay. But I can see the range limitation it causes with the Gauss & the same would work on a PPC for the same reason.

It may not be the best way to "fix" the convergence problem but the mechanic fits the weapon(s).

View PostFlash Frame, on 22 June 2015 - 01:34 AM, said:


No, the concept was a balance decision for tabletop to keep said long range weaponry from being effective in brawling range.

Yes cause at 60-90 meters out you just can't brawl can you?

#25 Sjorpha

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 01:56 AM

I like the charge mechanic.

But I do think the clan gauss needs to be a little different from IS, both for balance and flavour. I would give clan gauss longer range and higher velocity, at the cost of longer chargetime and cooldown.

#26 Nightshade24

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:01 AM

View Postspeleomaniac, on 22 June 2015 - 12:41 AM, said:

Lets be honest here.

Gauss charge up is there because of Clans. Direwolfs that can load 3 Gauss or 2 Gauss and 2 ER PPC.

The thing is to load Guass cannon you have to go most of the time XL engines and clans are not paying that big of a penalty to load XL engines.

At the WE I try to run Dragon Slayer with the classical poptart setup Gauss and 2 PPC for 35 Alpha and today game 35 Alpha is really joke for the risk you take in a 80 ton XL engined Assault. I can hit in my Firestarter for 30 Alpha all the time with a 30 tonner.

So why the big fuzz about Gauss/2 PPC in 80 ton XL Assault.

When I try to run this setup with DS I could not pass 200 damage because of the face time you get with Gauss charge up gives the enemy the opportunity to concentrate to side torso and all the broken jump animation can prevent so much damage.

When I switch to STD engine and some weird setups I directly jumped to 500-600 damage with DS.

When I see Jägermech with Dual Gauss with my Timbie one single 60 Alpha to arm most of the time will blow the arm/Gauss/side torso. In my opinion a 35 alpha does not pay this level of risk.

They will not change how the XL engine behaves in IS mech but I think they should really consider changing the Gauss charge up for IS mechs.

I don't know any IS mech then can load 2 Gauss cannons and 2 ER PPC and be as dangerous as Direwolf. So for clans charge up should stay but XL vulnerability and Gauss charge up is too much for IS.


Yes, a Direwolf can load 3... so can the Cataphract hero mech and there is IS mechs out there in BT who stock had 5 gauss rifles.. may be added, may not. All I know if that there are choices out there that can end up giving IS a 3 or 4 gauss rifle mech...
Also King crab can do 2 Guass and 2 ER PPC and in some ways better due to extra armoured arms, high mounted ER PPC's, faster fire rate Gauss due to quirks, etc... or the 3 large/ er large/ large pulse laser + 2 gauss rifle, which would beat any combo a duel gauss + ranged E build a direwolf can do, but let's not get into that to far for now...

Well there is a few IS mechs out there that can handle gauss with a Standard and some mechs out there can use XL and be oblivious to in coming damage like the Catapult K2 who can mount 2 gauss rifles with ease... or the Jagermech whose this time isn't being uber XL friendly (only XL friendly, not uber), but it has high head and arms that you can expose less then 10% of your mech over a ridge, building, etc and fire down at an enemy mech.
Lets look at the Jagermechs clan counterpart for this... the Mad Dog... you need 2 thirds exposed to fire at a mech with twin or one gauss... on top of that. BUT the mad dog will ALWAYS have less ammo then the duel gauss jager and with less armour.. the jager can even mount supportive weapons and still have more ammo and armour.
The Clan XL engines do have quite a bit of disadvantages, ranging from the fact you can't change there rating or type.
"I do not like dying or getting penalties because my barn door side torso keeps being blown off.. I will switch to a standard engi- oh wait..."
Mechs like the ice ferret, Nova, Mad Dog, Timberwolf, Warhawk, Gargoyle, Executioner, etc are all hindered by there engines or heatsinks so they can't do gauss rifles or do them effectively or in quantity...
Talk about near no advantages eh? Forcing to have less ammo and armour then the IS equivilants... from memory only the ebon jaguar can do duel gauss for heavies effectively and Direwolf can do it for assaults (2 Clan mechs... out of... how many IS? 5? 10? 20?), Quite sad really. Even then the Ebon Jaguar due to hardwired heatsinks losses it's lighter clan gauss rifle advantage because it has more then 10 heatsinks for a weapon that makes 0 heat.


That problem is how the Meta evolves, Duel PPC + Gauss isn't a meta anymore. Nor pop tarting... nor victors in general.
If you are using a victor as a baseline for Gauss rifles you are very mistaken.., That should be for a thread complaining about the victor and how it's unappreciated as well as the Highlander, not the Gauss rifles...

35 alpha is still pretty mean. But you can't just cheese your way in with peperoni and some oregano like you did awhile back.

The tip to use the gauss rifle is to charge before aimming. If you step out of cover, and charge your gauss rifle expecting the enemy team will wait for you then fire only to find out they are already eating half way through your mech then I see a problem.

That's like some guy coming out from behind the corner, decides then is the best time to load there bullet into the gun and open fire. Problem with that is they are most likely peppered with bullets the second before they grab the loading mechanism on there gun.

also congratulations for putting a standard engine on your DS, if only I can do the same for my direwolf or adder...

Quickly did the math and looked at a 60 damage alpha for a timberwolf, which can ONLY be achieved by 5 ER medium lasers + 2 large pulse lasers, which I did math earlier to point out how those kind of builds are rather stupid in my mind because you are not that efficient under 400 meters range compared to close range weapons such as AC 20's, AC 10's, LBX 10's, LBX 20's, SRM and SSRM's, and IS medium lasers and pulse lasers.
Of course that doesn't stop the meta craze... however I do have to mention you did take the most recent meta mech and build and compared it to an extinct meta mech and build.

I do not cry the Victor is OP because it's better then the atlas in every way or cry to the Stalker that it can out LRM boat my Atlas or a thunderbolt does ER PPC boating better then an atlas.
or Say how it sucks that the Jagermech is so OP because my duel AC 20 catapult can't carry anymore. Or how I can no longer use my 4 AC 5 cataphract because of the 2 AC 5 dragon. etc. Times do change. rather that be for the worst or better depends. but in meta perspective they have a very little window for the light to come through and they do represent the median of weapons that peform well in nearly every situation.
Notice how PPC's is not in that list (unless over quirked) nor the victor...
As mentioned earlier: Victor is to blame here so to say and not the weapons. As you can find on another thread there are many people out there who consider the victor in general poor and require serious quirking and introduction of the 9A model... BTW the flaw of using the victor over and over as your base line is the fact most variants is a brawler and not a sniper...



Also... boom
KGC-000
Duel Gauss, Duel PPC's, and a standard engine. In an esense: does everything better or equal to the Direwolf.
and Boom. KGC-000. ER PPC's this time if you are one of those people who actually use it and not use the more effective PPC.
Also just to rub it in the Direwolfs face and for those who can actually handle XL engines.
KGC-000 boom. Duel ER PPC, Duel Gauss rifle, better heat effeciency, XL 350, it now can out run quite a few 75T to 100T mechs at least some builds commonly seen on some mechs at that tonnage range, and have as good or better heat effeciency.

Of course this is only for those who can handle a XL engine, but this thing is deffinitly better then the Direwolf stat wise. you can not be left behind your team and lose because your team ditched all the assault mechs ie you. AS WELL as the fact that you can actually use this king crab in CW, Direwolf reguardless of build is often suicide or stupid for CW, even a lunatic like me wouldn't be cought alive in one. (I would be cought dead however... for obvious reasons).

also boom KGC-0000.
3 ER large laser, 2 Gauss, std 300. Alpha strike = 57 damage alpha strike as far as 630 meters. Better then the Direwolf builds for duel ER PPC + duel gauss, which is 50 damage. (I know it's only 7 damage difference, but the tripple ER large lasers are much more heat effecient which is odd as it is an E R large laser as well as the fact that it does damage instantly and if you miss for the first few seconds you can still do the rest of the damage..
Also...

KGC-0000

Shorter range, lower beam durration, 63 damage alpha strike with no ghost heat and good heat effeciency on top of that but with an XL engine.

63 damage alpha strike... may I remind you that is 3 more then the dreaded 6 ppc deathstar stalkers that was around before ghost heat?

Most of the XL builds I did above can be swapped wiht a lower Standard engine for those who REALLY hate Xl engines and will still have better heat effeciency over the direwolf, just ammo and speed will take a hit.

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 22 June 2015 - 01:29 AM, said:

I wouldn't complain, but I know others would. AC5 and AC2 do not require a recharging of Magnetic Capacitors and as such really don't have a "reason" to have a trigger delay.

PPC... yes charging capacitors are there as well, and could use a 2 second delay. 90 meter minimum after all. ;)

I thought capacitors for PPC's in lore were added for extra damage, range, and general firepower... if they add these PPC + Capacitors or Heavy PPC's in this game then I'm out...

#27 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:06 AM

View PostNightshade24, on 22 June 2015 - 02:01 AM, said:

I thought capacitors for PPC's in lore were added for extra damage, range, and general firepower... if they add these PPC + Capacitors or Heavy PPC's in this game then I'm out...

Right its the field inhibitor I was thinking of. ;)

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 June 2015 - 02:07 AM.


#28 Herr Vorragend

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:11 AM

LOL :D Gauss charge up is there because of Clans?
Sry Dude, I stopped reading after this sentence. This is utterly wrong.

But in general... the charge-up should be removed for IS AND Clan when you only got one Gauss equipped.

#29 Nightshade24

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:13 AM

Also I'm not whining, just addressing some flaws for these reasons put on the original post as well as a sturdy counter arguement.

Looking at the above, there is more reasons for Clans to loose the Gauss charge mechanism then the IS... In fact: it would not really encourage the meta of ER PPC + Gauss more for clans on most chassis, worst I can think off is TImberwolfs using it but this is mainly a bonus for the timberwolf as it evades half the nerfs for energy weapons as well as provides a good weapon to use, this is more like a crutch for the timberwolf after PGI stole it's knee caps and ankles...

But anyway. this springed an idea to make any gauss (lore wise) mechs for clans not be ****.

For the...

Kitfox A
Nova C
Mad dog C
Hellbringer A
Ebon Jaguar Prime
Hellbringer B
Gargoyle B
Warhawk B
Direwolf A
Direwolf W

Could be a quirk exclusive to my idea I keep hammering at PGi to be omnipod set bonus to prevent OP comboes and such... as well as the majority of larger and LRM and SRM and CS SRM and ER PPC quirks that could be abused if another set of omnipods came in... however I doubt MG quirks could be abused to heavily...

#30 Nightshade24

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:17 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 22 June 2015 - 02:06 AM, said:

Right its the field inhibitor I was thinking of. ;)

yea... but isn't the field inhibitator already present in a game as negative effect for normal PPC's thus the min range?
unless you meant ER PPC's... which would be "so min range now?... there goes half of what made the ER PPC viable..." or "I have to actually CHARGE for the ER PPC now? there was barely no reason to use it over the normal PPC already... thought PGI at worst was going to buff this a little bit..."

I do not think PPC's are really that bad... they are only good on over quirked IS mechs that use them... which is rather sad actually.

-shrugs-. I really do hope for Clan ER PPC damage to be raised to it's former 15 point damage...

I just did the math earlier and compaired to IS quirked ER PPC's AND the clan large pulse laser (or even IS ones...) there is no reason to use the ER PPC... it only has a small window of like slightly less than 200 meters over the clan large pulse for more damage at ranges but at 800 meter range not that much happens there, LRM's at this point out do PPC's vastly or gauss or just spammed large pulse lasers that produce the same ammount of heat as the hotter ER PPC but do better up close and do not need a target leed.

#31 Nightshade24

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:24 AM

View PostSjorpha, on 22 June 2015 - 01:56 AM, said:

I like the charge mechanic.

But I do think the clan gauss needs to be a little different from IS, both for balance and flavour. I would give clan gauss longer range and higher velocity, at the cost of longer chargetime and cooldown.


This would work in a perfect world, but as stated on my above comment (the wall of text...)

Most clan mechs can't do clan gauss, even mechs that did them stock.

Look at the Mad Dog C for eg... look at it.

Most builds that are not min maxing can't do gauss rifles. As these mechs here who struggle with it.

Kitfox A
Nova C
Mad dog C
Hellbringer A
Ebon Jaguar Prime
Hellbringer B
Gargoyle B
Warhawk B
Direwolf A
Direwolf W


I think the clans should have no charge time on builds with stock omnipods (maybe just a reduced charge time for stock omnipods on mechs like the couldron born and Direwolf W maybe...)

I mean, PGI are even thinking about raising the ammo per ton as a quirk on some clan mechs due to the awkward ballancing... that is a bit of the sign that ammo based weapons isn't all that's cracked up to be by some players at least on most Clan mechs :unsure:

#32 CyclonerM

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:24 AM

For sure, i am not going to be happy if the Grid Iron could fire its Gauss even faster than now.. -_-

#33 speleomaniac

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:32 AM

View PostNightshade24, on 22 June 2015 - 02:01 AM, said:

Yes, a Direwolf can load 3... so can the Cataphract hero mech and there is IS mechs out there in BT who stock had 5 gauss rifles.. may be added, may not. All I know if that there are choices out there that can end up giving IS a 3 or 4 gauss rifle mech...
Also King crab can do 2 Guass and 2 ER PPC and in some ways better due to extra armoured arms, high mounted ER PPC's, faster fire rate Gauss due to quirks, etc... or the 3 large/ er large/ large pulse laser + 2 gauss rifle, which would beat any combo a duel gauss + ranged E build a direwolf can do, but let's not get into that to far for now...

Well there is a few IS mechs out there that can handle gauss with a Standard and some mechs out there can use XL and be oblivious to in coming damage like the Catapult K2 who can mount 2 gauss rifles with ease... or the Jagermech whose this time isn't being uber XL friendly (only XL friendly, not uber), but it has high head and arms that you can expose less then 10% of your mech over a ridge, building, etc and fire down at an enemy mech.
Lets look at the Jagermechs clan counterpart for this... the Mad Dog... you need 2 thirds exposed to fire at a mech with twin or one gauss... on top of that. BUT the mad dog will ALWAYS have less ammo then the duel gauss jager and with less armour.. the jager can even mount supportive weapons and still have more ammo and armour.
The Clan XL engines do have quite a bit of disadvantages, ranging from the fact you can't change there rating or type.
"I do not like dying or getting penalties because my barn door side torso keeps being blown off.. I will switch to a standard engi- oh wait..."
Mechs like the ice ferret, Nova, Mad Dog, Timberwolf, Warhawk, Gargoyle, Executioner, etc are all hindered by there engines or heatsinks so they can't do gauss rifles or do them effectively or in quantity...
Talk about near no advantages eh? Forcing to have less ammo and armour then the IS equivilants... from memory only the ebon jaguar can do duel gauss for heavies effectively and Direwolf can do it for assaults (2 Clan mechs... out of... how many IS? 5? 10? 20?), Quite sad really. Even then the Ebon Jaguar due to hardwired heatsinks losses it's lighter clan gauss rifle advantage because it has more then 10 heatsinks for a weapon that makes 0 heat.


That problem is how the Meta evolves, Duel PPC + Gauss isn't a meta anymore. Nor pop tarting... nor victors in general.
If you are using a victor as a baseline for Gauss rifles you are very mistaken.., That should be for a thread complaining about the victor and how it's unappreciated as well as the Highlander, not the Gauss rifles...

35 alpha is still pretty mean. But you can't just cheese your way in with peperoni and some oregano like you did awhile back.

The tip to use the gauss rifle is to charge before aimming. If you step out of cover, and charge your gauss rifle expecting the enemy team will wait for you then fire only to find out they are already eating half way through your mech then I see a problem.

That's like some guy coming out from behind the corner, decides then is the best time to load there bullet into the gun and open fire. Problem with that is they are most likely peppered with bullets the second before they grab the loading mechanism on there gun.

also congratulations for putting a standard engine on your DS, if only I can do the same for my direwolf or adder...

Quickly did the math and looked at a 60 damage alpha for a timberwolf, which can ONLY be achieved by 5 ER medium lasers + 2 large pulse lasers, which I did math earlier to point out how those kind of builds are rather stupid in my mind because you are not that efficient under 400 meters range compared to close range weapons such as AC 20's, AC 10's, LBX 10's, LBX 20's, SRM and SSRM's, and IS medium lasers and pulse lasers.
Of course that doesn't stop the meta craze... however I do have to mention you did take the most recent meta mech and build and compared it to an extinct meta mech and build.

I do not cry the Victor is OP because it's better then the atlas in every way or cry to the Stalker that it can out LRM boat my Atlas or a thunderbolt does ER PPC boating better then an atlas.
or Say how it sucks that the Jagermech is so OP because my duel AC 20 catapult can't carry anymore. Or how I can no longer use my 4 AC 5 cataphract because of the 2 AC 5 dragon. etc. Times do change. rather that be for the worst or better depends. but in meta perspective they have a very little window for the light to come through and they do represent the median of weapons that peform well in nearly every situation.
Notice how PPC's is not in that list (unless over quirked) nor the victor...
As mentioned earlier: Victor is to blame here so to say and not the weapons. As you can find on another thread there are many people out there who consider the victor in general poor and require serious quirking and introduction of the 9A model... BTW the flaw of using the victor over and over as your base line is the fact most variants is a brawler and not a sniper...



Also... boom
KGC-000
Duel Gauss, Duel PPC's, and a standard engine. In an esense: does everything better or equal to the Direwolf.
and Boom. KGC-000. ER PPC's this time if you are one of those people who actually use it and not use the more effective PPC.
Also just to rub it in the Direwolfs face and for those who can actually handle XL engines.
KGC-000 boom. Duel ER PPC, Duel Gauss rifle, better heat effeciency, XL 350, it now can out run quite a few 75T to 100T mechs at least some builds commonly seen on some mechs at that tonnage range, and have as good or better heat effeciency.

Of course this is only for those who can handle a XL engine, but this thing is deffinitly better then the Direwolf stat wise. you can not be left behind your team and lose because your team ditched all the assault mechs ie you. AS WELL as the fact that you can actually use this king crab in CW, Direwolf reguardless of build is often suicide or stupid for CW, even a lunatic like me wouldn't be cought alive in one. (I would be cought dead however... for obvious reasons).

also boom KGC-0000.
3 ER large laser, 2 Gauss, std 300. Alpha strike = 57 damage alpha strike as far as 630 meters. Better then the Direwolf builds for duel ER PPC + duel gauss, which is 50 damage. (I know it's only 7 damage difference, but the tripple ER large lasers are much more heat effecient which is odd as it is an E R large laser as well as the fact that it does damage instantly and if you miss for the first few seconds you can still do the rest of the damage..
Also...

KGC-0000

Shorter range, lower beam durration, 63 damage alpha strike with no ghost heat and good heat effeciency on top of that but with an XL engine.

63 damage alpha strike... may I remind you that is 3 more then the dreaded 6 ppc deathstar stalkers that was around before ghost heat?

Most of the XL builds I did above can be swapped wiht a lower Standard engine for those who REALLY hate Xl engines and will still have better heat effeciency over the direwolf, just ammo and speed will take a hit.


I thought capacitors for PPC's in lore were added for extra damage, range, and general firepower... if they add these PPC + Capacitors or Heavy PPC's in this game then I'm out...


Well thx for the wall of text I don't know what I did it to deserve it but I guess I hit a nerve.

When I read 3 Gauss rifles for Ilya Mourmet I had a feeling your intention is about trolling then serious answer. IM with 3 Gauss will run around probably with XL200 and only with 30 rounds of gauss ammo. When it pops up anywhere it will be with sign of shoot shoot me I like to blow up with that low swung ams.

And I sry I forgot the King Crap they are for me nice looking but useless crap mechs that you reap it arms in nano seconds and with STD 300 will be slower then Dire and will be much easier food for NASCAR.

The fact is you ignore with the all the negativity you pump out about clans fixed engines it doesn't change that it can continue to fight, specially to a ballistic build, after side torso blown off during an IS mech dies.

I accept that during the finest hours of jump shooting a charge up to IS Gauss Rifle is acceptable in the days of JS does not exist anymore and I stay in my statement, with the fact for any efficient load out you have to take XL engine with Gauss in IS mechs, PGI should really consider removing Gauss charge up for IS.

If they don't want Gauss to be melee weapon put a 100m min range and the 4 CD for Gauss I am fine with it, but when I am in the fire line I need 1.5s face time the enemy, specially with the new clan infection, I find it quite unfair while I am taking the risk that my side torso blows up and I die and they don't.

Edited by speleomaniac, 22 June 2015 - 02:34 AM.


#34 TanE

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:49 AM

Well, the Tripple-G Ilya isn't a troll, it was on the battlefield. Not as much as the Tripple-UAC5+3ML I-kill'em-all-Ilya. But it was fielded. When it hits you, it was awfull, but every bullet counted.

@1.5 seconds facetime:
Do the ERLLasers on ClanMechs with low weapon slots, then we speak again.

But if you are experienced and your mates lock Targets, you can chrge up when leaving cover and release when you have a line of sight, In this case you don't have to facetank 1.5 seconds.

Edited by TanE, 22 June 2015 - 02:53 AM.


#35 Kiiyor

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:50 AM

View PostFlash Frame, on 22 June 2015 - 01:34 AM, said:


No, the concept was a balance decision for tabletop to keep said long range weaponry from being effective in brawling range.


I understand this, but how do you justify it in any way that doesn't involve stretching your suspension of disbelief to breaking point? An argument can be made for the minimum range of PPC's that makes sense, as they are an energy weapon, but how do you explain it for ballistics?

Also, I don't really think they need to be balanced for close range at all. There are far more effective weapon systems for knife fighting. Gauss at sub-90m doesn't bother me at all, unless i'm, in the front 20 degree arc of a DireWhale.

#36 KuroNyra

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:59 AM

View Postspeleomaniac, on 22 June 2015 - 12:41 AM, said:

Lets be honest here.

Gauss charge up is there because of Clans.




The charge mechanic has explained by the others is here because it was basicly a AC/15 with no heat. You never saw Gaussapult? Where Catapult K2 were used with only 2 gauss and could literraly tear the whole ennemy team apart?
Let's not talk about hunchbacks and jaeggermech who were devastating.



View Postspeleomaniac, on 22 June 2015 - 01:09 AM, said:

Are you really sure charge up is there before clans.

I started playing this game around the time people start complained about 2 x Gauss 2 x ER PPC dires and I think they introduce the charge up after that.

Definitly sure, heck there was even rumor before clan coming out that there Clan Gauss wouldn't have the charge mechanic. Rumor who prooved false hopefully.

Edited by KuroNyra, 22 June 2015 - 03:02 AM.


#37 Nightshade24

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 03:05 AM

View Postspeleomaniac, on 22 June 2015 - 02:32 AM, said:


Well thx for the wall of text I don't know what I did it to deserve it but I guess I hit a nerve.

When I read 3 Gauss rifles for Ilya Mourmet I had a feeling your intention is about trolling then serious answer. IM with 3 Gauss will run around probably with XL200 and only with 30 rounds of gauss ammo. When it pops up anywhere it will be with sign of shoot shoot me I like to blow up with that low swung ams.

And I sry I forgot the King Crap they are for me nice looking but useless crap mechs that you reap it arms in nano seconds and with STD 300 will be slower then Dire and will be much easier food for NASCAR.

The fact is you ignore with the all the negativity you pump out about clans fixed engines it doesn't change that it can continue to fight, specially to a ballistic build, after side torso blown off during an IS mech dies.

I accept that during the finest hours of jump shooting a charge up to IS Gauss Rifle is acceptable in the days of JS does not exist anymore and I stay in my statement, with the fact for any efficient load out you have to take XL engine with Gauss in IS mechs, PGI should really consider removing Gauss charge up for IS.

If they don't want Gauss to be melee weapon put a 100m min range and the 4 CD for Gauss I am fine with it, but when I am in the fire line I need 1.5s face time the enemy, specially with the new clan infection, I find it quite unfair while I am taking the risk that my side torso blows up and I die and they don't.


I sh*t you not, the IM 3 gauss troll is a mech that does 45 damage alpha at virtually any range.

It was the whole reason you can't fire more then 2 for nearly a year now. It was to kill this build. and later on kill the Direwolf 3-4 guass build but let me remind you this was way before PGI even had a concept for Clan mechs and how they will be in game. For all they knew virtually every weapon will be hardwired and clans will kinda peform simular to MW: LL but in MW: O, You can't modify your mech, but it has untouched stats and no nerfs . A possible outcome to clans.

Also escuse me? The King crab has a better profile then a direwolf and the arms not only have minor quirks to them but due to the 'claws' has a natural 10% immunity to damage, if your arms keep popping off I do not know what to say to you, because the direwolf torso pops off even more often... Nano seconds? tell me any mech or 2 mechs or even 3 mechs iwht a legitiment build that isn't a direstart that can take it off in even 1. And being 3 missile mechs at 2 meters range with SRM spam wouldn't be practical...

Also "slower" then the direwolf? the Direwolf is another 100 tonner with a 300 rating engine. It would be the same speed as a direwolf and the XL / other builds I posted would out run a direwolf... DWhy do you think the direwolf is the first mech to die in any game of NASCAR?

Also you say all my 'negativity' ? I was mainly filling you in on all the negativity you forgotten, the key to the debate is a balanced argument, should have thanked me for helping you out make a point or see that a point is false, instead of blame it on someones negativity. Do you want me to mention all the positives of the Inner sphere XL engines and Standard engines have because of all your negativity towards them? hmm?

Also after a ST of a clan mech falls, off, which is common for a direwolf as it has ST's the side of the awesomes Ct's which can even be hit from behind... the Direwolf will loose most of it's ammo as well as it's heatsinks and such, as well as a few engine heatsinks, thus it would have issues maintaining that 1 er ppc it has remaining, also due to how ammo drains from a mech, if the enemy hits you on the left side of the mech, you loose 50% (fresh mech) to 100% (half way through your ammo) on your direwolf if he takes your left side out. having a single ER PPC on an assault? the Cicada can do that better or a spider...

This is why you would more likely see a direwolf with a shield side and dumping all the ammo to the legs, ct, head, and the side the shield is on with few ammo on the shield side. (note: weapons on left side), however this prevents a duel gauss build and devoting that much space for simple shielding is in my mind stupid for a 100 tonner. however that's the meta of the direwolf atm... that or 4 er medium laser + 2 large pulse + 2 gauss rifles, however that's like the elite-players version of the timberwolf meta as you need 3+ keys to use it for firing as well as not die durring NASCAR, LRM's, NARCIng, etc. practically you need a pocket player with ECM to make sure you survive that ordeal and to help ease the pain of using shortcuts for NASCAR.

As I have seen from some units who successfully use the direwolf.

And I have shown some IS 100 tonners that's MORE then on par with the clan example you gave: the Direwolf. both 100 tonners, but King crab does it much more better in every way. What? you trying to compare a 85 tonner to the 100 tonner?
As odd as that is... I could point you the Battlemaster 2C who has more armour then a direwolf could ever have... or the Dragon 1N that out does it in Dakka / ballistics for small arms. However I doubt you want to turn the debate off the topic of Gauss rifles for those match ups to be valid for the debate at hand.

Also you say you need 1.5S face time, however the SAME applies to a clan mech. You need to CHARGE your gauss rifle before peaking.

Look at the jagermech, due to it's high mounts and such, it only needs to expose as I said above less then 10% to the enemy to fire for literally 0.5 seconds if you are good at timing (my friend only needs 0.16 seconds to fire off his gauss and hit a CT of an enemy mech in a jager from recordings and on reaction time rests we threw at him online he scored sometimes after 30 seconds of practicing under 0.12 seconds reaction time... however 0.3 to 0.5 is the average and for a game that's quite a bit, especially considering that quite a few people have 200-300 ping meaning you can charge, poke out, shoot, and go back behind cover before a person even has a chance to see you and hit you)


Also it owuld not be a 100m min range, it would be a 60m min range as part of TT... yep, this weapon as well as AC 2 and 5 had around 60m min range. to prevent snipping weapons used in brawling. This may be alright, but would be a bit confusing... I would welcome this though.


Also for your XL issue: the thing is not many people aim for a ST unless it's damaged and most likely from a rookie mistake on the shooter or hitboxes messed up or out of proportion, or a indirect wepaon like arty, lrm's, srm's, lbx, or you rolled your armour (which you SHOULD do in a Victor, that's like first step of usign a victor!), or what ever other reason: most people aim at the CT.

they only aim at your ST when it's in a worse condition then CT.

Clan mech suffer too from ST explosion, not a instant death, but in the form of major heat penalties and later on speed and movement penalties. Which if you compare to a IS standard engine (which is a fair debate as not all clan mechs or even most clan mechs have endo steel or a good sized engine or hardwired equipment that in some cases are useless, to the point all your weight savings is put towards an over sized standard engine that is more fragile in a IS one for eg)

Look at the Nova for eg... the direwolf, the executioner... the summoner, etc... do you think it has the average benifits of an XL engine? when they lack ES, or sometimes both ES and FF?
How many times have you choosed FF over XL engine?


Anyway, to see if I can prove against your point I made a standard engine heavy mech with duel gauss: JM6-A
Average speed, is at least on par with most assaults and some heavies. On top of that it has MORE ammo then the Mad Dog C and 5 more shots then the mad dog C, if you land all your hits in range, you would get 675 damage in your game, rather above average I would suppose, assuming a 25% miss chance and depleation of ammo that's a 500 damage game rounded down at least coming your way. Still rather decent.

Also single gauss builds? I can name PLENTY of builds for those.

My zeus, highlander, victor, banshee, king crab, stalker, battlemaster, for a while my catapult K2, and my Hunchback as well as my centurion and shadowhawk ran 1 gauss with a standard engine plenty fine and in most cases on par with clan counterparts.

however I learned the catapult is beast with an XL engine reguardless of build as well as the dragon, so those are 2 very good XL mechs that behave if like they had LFE's (aka clan xl engines) but not hardwired...


You didn't hit a nerve. just throwing the counter arguement and using this thread instead of making a new one called "does the clan gauss cannon really need charge up for clan mechs" =P

what you did to deserve this and that wall of text?

Ignore one of the most IMPORTANT rules of a debate, which is ballance.

if you do not do it yourself, your oponent will do it for you and then does his own. Which tips the scale in his favour and not yours.

As not only does the person in the debate know the "problem" more then you, but also has more of an idea on the solution and how to execute it over you in a situation like this...

Trust me I am not a politician here to robe you of money when you are not looking. :ph34r: Just here talking about pixel guns in a pixel game in a pixel world that I am a bit obsessed over for the past decade.

#38 Curccu

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 03:07 AM

View PostTitannium, on 22 June 2015 - 12:52 AM, said:

hold the button 2 seconds, then you have 2 seconds to fire, or you wont fire at all.
What a stupid mechanic, devs, you dont know how to balance this weapon right ? So you make it useless.

GJ.

Probably the best ballistics weapon in the game.

View PostTitannium, on 22 June 2015 - 01:32 AM, said:

best doesnt mean, i have to not enjoy when firing the weapon.

Yet your liking how it works doesn't make it bad

#39 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 03:10 AM

View PostKuroNyra, on 22 June 2015 - 02:59 AM, said:

The charge mechanic has explained by the others is here because it was basicly a AC/15 with no heat. You never saw Gaussapult? Where Catapult K2 were used with only 2 gauss and could literraly tear the whole ennemy team apart?
Let's not talk about hunchbacks and jaeggermech who were devastating.
I used to tear these apart with 2 LRM20. Sure splash damage made it easier, but with as bad as my frame rate was...

#40 Nightshade24

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 03:17 AM

View PostKuroNyra, on 22 June 2015 - 02:59 AM, said:




The charge mechanic has explained by the others is here because it was basicly a AC/15 with no heat. You never saw Gaussapult? Where Catapult K2 were used with only 2 gauss and could literraly tear the whole ennemy team apart?
Let's not talk about hunchbacks and jaeggermech who were devastating.


not here to be the devil in your statement, but the reason the Guass catapult stopped existing was the Jagermech which nearly made it obselete in every way :ph34r:
Point is highly considered though as the Catapult K2 "Gauss-a-pult" was the meta and the bane of most peoples existance in closed beta as it's the only mech to be able to do duel AC 20 or duel Gauss rifle up until the jager mech arived...

I still love those old videos <3 should do a gauss-a-pult someday just for ol' memories sake.



CPLT-K2 Gaussapult what I may use for the old-timey build... I miss this more and more as each second passes by...





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