351 replies to this topic

[Kristov Kerensky]

McGral, a larger monitor and higher resolution will definitely help. On my screen, from where you where standing in that video, I can make out the Mech's arms/legs on my own screen easily and targeting the cockpit wouldn't be EASY, but I can see enough to aim for it, 24" Asus 3D monitor running at 1920x1080 res. Size of screen and resolution really do make that much of a difference, you should see what it was like on my 42" HD TV I just gave to my grandson to use with his XBox since the older 720 res TV he'd been using died. HE loves the upgraded resolution on his XBox games, so grandpa scored some serious brownie points

[Thorqemada]

It takes me Eons to get Sensor Info - BAP or not - the fate of an IS Scrub...
And the Paperdoll is somtimes updated 5 seconds later and occasionally the readout changes after a while and i had some old data from a mech i had targetted b4.

Aside of that afair i have Headshot way back an Atlas with 2 PPC - if you can get over that 18 Head armor its obviously possible to 1-Shot Heads (or at least it was possible - i almost never go for the head and its random luck when i do one or a desperate Hail Mary Shot).

The Mechs i own that have reduced Head Armor have no statistically signifiant more deaths by HS.
A Strike HS will kill you anyway but since it seems they made Strikes not hit Heads anymore or very very rarely.

Edited by Thorqemada, 06 July 2015 - 10:59 AM.

[stjobe]

Great thread Mcgral18, it's always good to discuss and explain game mechanics.

As to the "are we okay with it?" question - well, I think I am, at least.

In TT, a single gauss or AC/20 shot would take any 'mech's head clean off (3 IS + max 9 armour); here (15 IS + 18 armour) we need dual AC/20s to guarantee it, or a bit of luck with dual Gauss.

It is a bit strange though that PGI increased head internals from 6 to 15 to keep the GaussCat from insta-gibbing people with headshots, but didn't have enough foresight to see that increasing IS damage from crits by 15% of crit damage would make them capable of the same insta-gib.

Or why they thought it was a problem in the first place - and then a couple of years later introduced dual-AC/20 'mechs?

Kind of like the whole "6 MG Spider could do devastating things to the back of an Atlas, so the MG can't be buffed", and then a bit later the 4 MG+4 ML Firestarter is introduced.

Makes zero sense to me, but hey! 'Mech pack!

[Hit the Deck]

stjobe, on 06 July 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

...
In TT, a single gauss or AC/20 shot would take any 'mech's head clean off....

Somehow I like to hear this!

Edited by Hit the Deck, 06 July 2015 - 10:55 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

CapperDeluxe, on 29 June 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

Personally I think they should only allow one Gauss to be charged at a time, instead of two.

...

I'd be ok with that as long as EVERY OTHER weapon, INLCUDING small lasers, MG's, and flamers, ALSO suffered the same extreme limitation.

All the extreme limitations already put on the gauss, it doesn't need yet another handicap to dumb the game down for people who refuse to learn.

[Dimento Graven]

Khobai, on 30 June 2015 - 01:20 AM, said:

I didnt say it was easy. I said it shouldnt be possible to one shot mechs. Regardless of whether its easy or not is irrelevant. The fact remains nobody should be taken out of the game by a lucky shot. It adds absolutely nothing beneficial to the game and all it does is make someones play experience miserable.

...

First: 30+ years of BattleTech gaming, both table top and PC games are against you on the 'it shouldn't be possible'. It's ALWAYS been possible to one shot a 'mech.

Secondly, 'lucky shots' aren't always luck, for those of us good at aiming, your "never allow a one shot" rule penalizes us.

Thirdly, it absolutely DOES add to the game, it adds an element of risk as soon as the enemy is visible, it helps to prevent some stupid and lazy play (though not all of us are perfect at avoiding stupid and lazy play all the time), and again for those who have some proclivity at aiming provides some incentive for improving that skill.

[stjobe]

Dimento Graven, on 06 July 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

I'd be ok with that as long as EVERY OTHER weapon, INLCUDING small lasers, MG's, and flamers, ALSO suffered the same extreme limitation.

I've been known to argue for a global cooldown on all weapons as a way to work around the instant convergence and armour-system-breaking massive pinpoint alphas we have; having a 0.1 - 0.2 global cooldown on every weapon, only allowing one to fire at any time, would spread e.g. a 6-ML alpha out to 0.6 - 1.2 seconds (plus beam time, of course), making it a lot less like a 30-point hyper-ML and a bit more like six discrete weapons firing.

It would be a lot closer to the spirit of BattleTech than our current instantly converging pinpoint system, but it doesn't get a lot of traction around the forums; people seem to like their weapons coalescing into one giant hyper-weapon when they use them.

Dimento Graven, on 06 July 2015 - 12:04 PM, said:

First: 30+ years of BattleTech gaming, both table top and PC games are against you on the 'it shouldn't be possible'. It's ALWAYS been possible to one shot a 'mech.

Not to mention the fact that it could also be done with a single shot from a MG... 2 points of damage on a fresh assault, roll 2 for hit location meaning a through-armour crit to the CT (if firing into the front or rear arc), roll 12 on the crit roll, have all three crits hit the engine, and hey presto - instant dead assault.

[Khobai]

Quote

First: 30+ years of BattleTech gaming, both table top and PC games are against you on the 'it shouldn't be possible'. It's ALWAYS been possible to one shot a 'mech.

wrong. other mechwarrior games like MW4 had one shot kill protection. mw4 had way more pinpoint damage then mwo does but the game still wouldnt let you destroy a head in one hit.

also tabletop should not be literally translated to mwo. trying to make mwo identical to tabletop is what created some of the biggest balance problems in mwo in the first place (for example, the screwed up heat system). one shot kills is one aspect of tabletop we can do without and the game would be better off for it.

Quote

Not to mention the fact that it could also be done with a single shot from a MG... 2 points of damage on a fresh assault, roll 2 for hit location meaning a through-armour crit to the CT (if firing into the front or rear arc), roll 12 on the crit roll, have all three crits hit the engine, and hey presto - instant dead assault.

Thank you for proving my point. That stupidity doesnt belong in MWO.

Quote

I've been known to argue for a global cooldown on all weapons as a way to work around the instant convergence and armour-system-breaking massive pinpoint alphas we have; having a 0.1 - 0.2 global cooldown on every weapon, only allowing one to fire at any time, would spread e.g. a 6-ML alpha out to 0.6 - 1.2 seconds (plus beam time, of course), making it a lot less like a 30-point hyper-ML and a bit more like six discrete weapons firing

I personally think they should just redistribute the armor/structure values.

MWO currently uses max armor/structure values that are based off of tabletop's randomized distribution of damage. That makes no sense considering MWO allows aiming and damage distribution isnt randomized.

Instead MWO should be have redistributed max armor/structure values based on CT and side torsos getting hit the most with arms and legs getting hit the least.

That would also make XL a heck of a lot better for IS mechs.

Edited by Khobai, 07 July 2015 - 03:18 AM.

[General Solo]

Most mechs that can mount dual guass have mild to severe disadvantages in other areas.
Dire whale - slow whale
Jagger - Glass Cannon
Warhawk - No room for other weapons without losing armour

etc

Its not like you can mount dual guass on every mech
So the mechs that can mount them should be able to do dual guass and not Dual and a half lite with reduced sugar.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 09 July 2015 - 10:18 PM.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

Wintersdark, on 29 June 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

My thinking as well. Not FPS level headshots (which are stupid, in this context) but our nice, very difficult headshots that are somewhat challenging even if someone is standing still.



Making something up? He has video proof. Clearly, there is no "making up" - what's more, those are known, understood, existing game mechanics not some flight of fancy.

Simply because YOU don't get dual gauss headshots doesn't mean they can't happen. As I said above, I don't agree it's a problem, but it obviously happens.

MSI Afterburner. It's not actually video card specific, and it's ostensibly primarily for video card overclocking, but it's fully free, you don't need to use the overclocking features if you don't want to, but it DOES do full video capture at a very, very minor (the lowest I've found so far) performance impact. I find I lose ~2fps recording raw, uncompressed video at 1080p60.

Right.

One can argue (Several of us are) that it can and does happen, but it happens rarely, and requires skill and luck (or prodigious luck) to pull off, so it's a feature not a bug.

But just attacking McGral for taking a scientific approach here and investigating a phenomena that few people understand, then asking your opinion on it? What's up with that? He's doing what we need MORE posters doing: Objectively analyzing game mechanics, educating players, getting people talking about how the game works.

I am totally on your side.
At the moment i am sitting on 454 headshots in around 4.5k games in dual gauss mechs averaging at around 10 games per headshot. At the beginning it was way harder - lets say 20 games per headshot. Lateiy have done a headshot every 5 games. So i am defenetly getting better even though they narrowed the head hitbox down (i think). I am training this specifically.

Considering my K/D i get a headshot every 30 kills and i am only trying to get headshots. Its ******* hard and took 2 years to get to this point where i can with a huge amount of luck get a headshot every 5+- a few games.

And yes its still luck considering all the hitreg, ping, invisible wall problems etc.

However i rarely do a only dual gauss headshot. Most of the time my lasers do damage too. The chance is a bit above 14% if i get it right to get the crits needed for a only gauss haadshot.

I have almost 200 Headhots on video since people started to call me a cheater. If needed i can upload a few showing how lasers and good aim is part of the equation.

Removeing the ability to 1 shot mechs would change my headshot by almost nothing since most cockpits i got were predamaged by somebody elses srms lasres whatever.

Another huge part of my headshots is artys after i hit the cockpit and the enemy goes away.

Makeing dual gauss instant kills due to the 14+ something % crit change is i think laughable. It would reduce the number headshots that are happeining at the most those few percents.

[C E Dwyer]

Head shot stuff

I hadn't really thought about it but i'd let Dimento finnish off his 1000 HS's before you lobby to have the rate gimped

[C E Dwyer]

o.k. Joking aside, TTK is so damn low, making head shots impossible I think is a waste of time, and very few people that play, have the skills to do it on a regular basis.

[Mystere]

Holy Necro Batman!

[C E Dwyer]

Mystere, on 06 April 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:

Holy Necro Batman!

lol beat me to it, I just saw it was a necro post, Frankenstein is proud of you Cara !

[sycocys]

I'll just pose these questions -

How do you feel about me quick (or macro) tapping of dual ac20s and effectively doing the same thing without a crit?

Or ac20/10/5 alpha?

How about the same exact result with 6 MPL and its .6s duration?

Or 9 SPL and its .5s duration?

It's just ridiculously rare to see a single mech instagib another mech with a headshot, and the odd one-shots are generally high alpha vs non-moving light.

[Mcgral18]

sycocys, on 06 April 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

I'll just pose these questions -

How do you feel about me quick (or macro) tapping of dual ac20s and effectively doing the same thing without a crit?

Or ac20/10/5 alpha?

How about the same exact result with 6 MPL and its .6s duration?

Or 9 SPL and its .5s duration?

It's just ridiculously rare to see a single mech instagib another mech with a headshot, and the odd one-shots are generally high alpha vs non-moving light.

None of those are instant kills, unless you take a high heat penalty from AC20s.

It's also the fact the Gauss is the best Crit weapon in the game. It WILL destroy whatever item it hits (AC20 the one exception, most of the time, at 18 HP) when it rolls a Crit.


Those features, alongside the ease of use, long range, and altogether good characteristics, I support the sub-1 CritDamMult.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 28 June 2015 - 05:44 PM, said:

I'm starting to get tired of people not understanding how MWO game mechanics work, then trying to spread their own BS.

I've had people try to tell me you can't one shot a mech with Dual Gauss (or any 30 PP FLD source) because crits don't work they way they do (they're wrong).

And, yes, the Gauss Rifle can have a better crit chance than the Machine Gun. I found that amusing.

If a person has the skill to get off a headshot and gets awarded a crit kill, then they earned it. It happening by happenstance is so rare that no, I would actually be against wasting any time needed to change the programming to accommodate a bunch of Nancy's crying because 1x in 10,000 matches they got insta killed.

Crap, I can't even recall the last time I was killed by a headshot.

[Dimento Graven]

Holy F***!!!

People are STILL crying about this?!?!??

You don't want to be headshot? Here you go:

1. Don't face tank, TORSO TWIST, YOU SILLY MORON!
2. Do NOT shut down due to over heating. Either control your heat, OR, turn override on first thing every match.
3. Pay the F*** attention when the match starts. You sitting there AFK because you're drooling over the latest furry porn puts you at risk of some smart *** light running straight up to you and face shooting you for LOLs.
4. ALWAY, ALWAYS, ALWAYS load full armor on your head.

Do these 4 things, and you will EXTREMELY RARELY IF EVER be "insta-one-shot-headshotted".

Now, please STFU, and stop crying about other people playing in a skilled manner.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 06 April 2016 - 03:54 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Dimento Graven, on 06 April 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

Holy F***!!!

People are STILL crying about this?!?!??

You don't want to be headshot? Here you go:

1. Don't face tank, TORSO TWIST, YOU SILLY MORON!
2. Do NOT shut down due to over heating. Either control your heat, OR, turn override on first thing every match.
3. Pay the F*** attention when the match starts. You sitting there AFK because you're drooling over the latest furry porn puts you at risk of some smart *** light running straight up to you and face shooting you for LOLs.
4. ALWAY, ALWAYS, ALWAYS load full armor on your head.

Do these 4 things, and you will EXTREMELY RARELY IF EVER be "insta-one-shot-headshotted".

Now, please STFU, and stop crying about other people playing in a skilled manner.

Someone's a tad illiterate.

[Dimento Graven]

Mcgral18, on 06 April 2016 - 04:21 PM, said:

Someone's a tad illiterate.

Some of us just avoid dignifying a silly premise, "no one shots, ever" is totally silly, I'm sorry it happens to you enough to motivate you to waste time on posting a thread asking for more "easy mode" but seriously, get over it.