94 replies to this topic

[Kristov Kerensky]

Dingo Red, on 29 June 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

Not new at all, I'm just fed up with the constant negativity that often surrounds stuff like this.

An alternative is to be positive and consider that PGI isn't the same as they were many moons ago, and will take into account the consequences of what they're releasing before the release it.

Maybe, if PGI had shown restraint in the past, we might could see that as a possibility. They haven't though, repeatedly, they've released clearly OP toys and once the whining gets too loud and the data shows the whining is actually based on something real, they grab the supersized nerfhammer and go to work. It's their Modus Operandi, their MO, a very well proven track record of doing this, even when the community warned them well in advance of the problem if they continued, they did it anyway.

THAT'S why we have to start making noise NOW, so they can revamp those hardpoints to fit canon and NOT inflate them. That is the ONLY balance mechanism for the Clan BattleMechs, keeping their weapons hardpoints limited to what the canon builds can carry, NOT doubling that or more.

[1453 R]

*Sigh*

I can't even be excited for things on this forum anymore.

All right goombas, listen up. PGI just announced a huge balance pass coming up, top-to-bottom, flip-the-table stuff. Do you think that maybe, possibly, potentially, they're doing this now because of the Origins pack?

I mean, let's face it. We all know what's going to happen. Origins pack announced, Clan BattleMechs are now a Thing. They were always going to be a Thing, but now they're not just some far-off future Thing, they're a concrete, here-to-stay Thing we'll be seeing a month after Fallout 4 releases.

Yes, they have customizable structure/engines.

Yes, they have more than three hardpoints.

Yes, they're going to get Clan gear nerfed to the tenth ring of the Inferno.

Frankly? I'm anticipating half-damage SRM launchers, ripple-fired Streak launchers with reduced range and (further, ludicrously) increased cycle times, cGauss inflicted with either an extra 2s cooldown or a doubled charge time, and Clan beams will all be essentially reduced to Spheroid range and damage figures, without actually taking into account the ER in their names. Or reducing their burn times or heat. They'll likely go back to the old cUAC burst numbers, and probably double the spread figures for the cLBX guns.

And when anyone on the Clan side tries to point out the gross infairness of it all, the only thing we'll hear is "CXL! 2-SLOT DHS! 7-SLOT STRUCTURE UPGRADES! SMALLER LIGHTER GUNS! SHUT UP YOU STUPID CRUTCHBABBIES!" over and over and over again, probably mostly by JohnnyZ.

We're going to get our BattleMechs. The Jenner, especially, will be utterly breathtaking...in theory. For the next month or so, before we see what Piranha's new balance plan is. Or, to put it another way - until we see the absolute train wreck hash they're going to make of all Clan gear so they can finally settle the forums down on that matter.

Yeah, the Jenner IIC has six missile hardpoints and seven jump jets. As of right now, it takes the largest dump I've ever seen on the Oxide. In a couple of months, when the Oxide has six missile hardpoints and a 315 engine rating too? When they tell us what the Clan balancing efforts are going to be, and how nothing on the Clan side is ever going to get a positive quirk again while the Sphere side keeps maintaining their 50% Supermech quirks?

The Jenner IIC is going to need every single one of those six racks just to avoid being completely irrelevant. Watch it happen. I'll betcha.

So until then, can we please show just a little bit of excitement for the awesome new toys we'll never actually get to play with? The Highlander still looks boss as hell, and my God that Jenner would be incredible if it released tomorrow. Just utterly incredible.

Edited by 1453 R, 29 June 2015 - 05:01 PM.

[Alan Davion]

Destructicus, on 29 June 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

I love the Unseen as much as anybody but I can't believe people are still holding their breath.

Believe it.

[Kristov Kerensky]

1453 R, on 29 June 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

*Sigh*

I can't even be excited for things on this forum anymore.

All right goombas, listen up. PGI just announced a huge balance pass coming up, top-to-bottom, flip-the-table stuff. Do you think that maybe, possibly, potentially, they're doing this now because of the Origins pack?

I mean, let's face it. We all know what's going to happen. Origins pack announced, Clan BattleMechs are now a Thing. They were always going to be a Thing, but now they're not just some far-off future Thing, they're a concrete, here-to-stay Thing we'll be seeing a month after Fallout 4 releases.

Yes, they have customizable structure/engines.

Yes, they have more than three hardpoints.

Yes, they're going to get Clan gear nerfed to the tenth ring of the Inferno.

Frankly? I'm anticipating half-damage SRM launchers, ripple-fired Streak launchers with reduced range and (further, ludicrously) increased cycle times, cGauss inflicted with either an extra 2s cooldown or a doubled charge time, and Clan beams will all be essentially reduced to Spheroid range and damage figures, without actually taking into account the ER in their names. Or reducing their burn times or heat. They'll likely go back to the old cUAC burst numbers, and probably double the spread figures for the cLBX guns.

We're going to get out BattleMechs. The Jenner, especially, will be utterly breathtaking...in theory. For the next month or so, before we see what Piranha's new balance plan is. Or, to put it another way - until we see the absolute train wreck hash they're going to make of all Clan gear so they can finally settle the forums down on that matter.

Yeah, the Jenner IIC has six missile hardpoints and seven jump jets. As of right now, it takes the largest dump I've ever seen on the Oxide. In a couple of months, when the Oxide has six missile hardpoints and a 315 engine rating too? When they tell us what the Clan balancing efforts are going to be, and how nothing on the Clan side is ever going to get a positive quirk again while the Sphere side keeps maintaining their 50% Supermech quirks?

The Jenner IIC is going to need every single one of those six racks just to avoid being completely irrelevant. Watch it happen. I'll betcha.

So until then, can we please show just a little bit of excitement for the awesome new toys we'll never actually get to play with? The Highlander still looks boss as hell, and my God that Jenner would be incredible if it released tomorrow. Just utterly incredible.

Actually the balance pass is to look at quirks again and redo them based on a new value system PGI has created. There's no physical changes being made to Mechs or actual weapon values being changed, just quirks.

[MerryIguana]

Called it. This is going to be wave 1 all over again. My mouth tastes like ashes.

[1453 R]

Kristov Kerensky, on 29 June 2015 - 05:02 PM, said:

Actually the balance pass is to look at quirks again and redo them based on a new value system PGI has created. There's no physical changes being made to Mechs or actual weapon values being changed, just quirks.

"Oxide Quirks:
LA: +16 Armor
RA: +16 Armor
CT: +30 Armor
LL +24 Armor
RL: +24 Armor

LA: +1 missile hardpoint. This is an experimental new quirk type which causes the first weapon of a given classification equipped to a location to not count against that location's hardpoint count.
RA: +1 missile hardpoint. This is an experimental new quirk type which causes the first weapon of a given classification equipped to a location to not count against that location's hardpoint count.
Max Speed +10%
SRM-2/4/6 Cooldown: +30%
Missile Cooldown: +30%
SRM-2/4/6 Range: +30%
Missile Range: +30%
Missile Heat Generation: -25%
SRM-2/4/6 Spread: -50%"

There ya go. Oxide is competitive, and will in fact pretty much just wreck the Jenner IIC pretty much 100% of the time. As well as every Fatlas, Manshee, and Dire Whale it decides it wants gone.

Especially after you folks manage to get the entirety of the Origins pack cut down to three hardpoints per chassis across all sixteen variants. Edit the stock loadout at all?, even for something like armor redistribution? "Chassis Invalid: please unequip invalid weapons."

[FupDup]

Also, relevant picture:

[Deimir]

1453 R, on 29 June 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

*Sigh*

I can't even be excited for things on this forum anymore.

All right goombas, listen up. PGI just announced a huge balance pass coming up, top-to-bottom, flip-the-table stuff. Do you think that maybe, possibly, potentially, they're doing this now because of the Origins pack?

I think maybe it would have been a more prudent course of action for them to share some preliminary details as to how the rebalance would work before tossing up a preorder for mechs that screams pay-for-power-creep.

[FupDup]

Deimir, on 29 June 2015 - 05:20 PM, said:

I think maybe it would have been a more prudent course of action for them to share some preliminary details as to how the rebalance would work before tossing up a preorder for mechs that screams pay-for-power-creep.

I think it would be okay if they didn't give us exact values, as long as they gave us a generic/broad qualitative overview. Something like this:

"Weapon X Buffed"
"Weapon Y Nerfed"
"Mech Z Buffed"
"Mech W Nerfed"
etc.

[1453 R]

Frankly? I'ma say something, and I'm going to get flamed to the Pit for it.

I miss Paul.

Russ is a good guy, and he's trying to give the forum what it wants - strength, power, Buffs instead of Nerfs, nobody getting left behind. People were cheering it on - until DRG-1Ns became M60s with feet, Huginns became P2W, and Hunchbacks obsoleted every other medium 'Mech in the game not named 'Stormcrow', and came pretty damn close to doing the same to Stormcrows.

The quirks system is a disaster. Power is not creeping, it's doing the 200-yard sprint, and it's been doing it long, long, LONGbefore the Origins pack was announced.. We can't keep going like this. Yes, I am and have always been a proponent of ups and downs balancing. I'm terrified of what The Community would do to Clan tech with a blank check, but if the alternative is theose Oxide quirks up there?

It's time for some normalization.

It's time for...

Edited by 1453 R, 29 June 2015 - 05:26 PM.

[FupDup]

1453 R, on 29 June 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

Frankly? I'ma say something, and I'm going to get flamed to the Pit for it.

I miss Paul.

Russ is a good guy, and he's trying to give the forum what it wants - strength, power, Buffs instead of Nerfs, nobody getting left behind. People were cheering it on - until DRG-1Ns became M60s with feet, Huginns became P2W, and Hunchbacks obsoleted every other medium 'Mech in the game not named 'Stormcrow', and came pretty damn close to doing the same to Stormcrows.

The quirks system is a disaster. Power is not creeping, it's doing the 200-yard sprint. We can't keep going like this. Yes, I am and have always been a proponent of ups and downs balancing. I'm terrified of what The Community would do to Clan tech with a blank check, but if the alternative is theose Oxide quirks up there?

It's time for some normalization.

It's time for...

Next patch:

New changes to IS Pulse Lasers
-Increased heat
-Reduced damage
-Reduced range

AC/2: Reduced cooldown again

Timberwolf and Stormcrow: Laser quirks replaced with Victor-style negative quirks


...I'm scared. Somebody please hold me.


Also, how DARE you edit my personal sacred/holy meme! You should also write the text in a way that more closely mimics the structure of the original Terminator poster:

Edited by FupDup, 29 June 2015 - 05:31 PM.

[Pjwned]

1453 R, on 29 June 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

*Sigh*

I can't even be excited for things on this forum anymore.

All right goombas, listen up. PGI just announced a huge balance pass coming up, top-to-bottom, flip-the-table stuff. Do you think that maybe, possibly, potentially, they're doing this now because of the Origins pack?

I mean, let's face it. We all know what's going to happen. Origins pack announced, Clan BattleMechs are now a Thing. They were always going to be a Thing, but now they're not just some far-off future Thing, they're a concrete, here-to-stay Thing we'll be seeing a month after Fallout 4 releases.

Yes, they have customizable structure/engines.

Yes, they have more than three hardpoints.

Yes, they're going to get Clan gear nerfed to the tenth ring of the Inferno.

Frankly? I'm anticipating half-damage SRM launchers, ripple-fired Streak launchers with reduced range and (further, ludicrously) increased cycle times, cGauss inflicted with either an extra 2s cooldown or a doubled charge time, and Clan beams will all be essentially reduced to Spheroid range and damage figures, without actually taking into account the ER in their names. Or reducing their burn times or heat. They'll likely go back to the old cUAC burst numbers, and probably double the spread figures for the cLBX guns.

And when anyone on the Clan side tries to point out the gross infairness of it all, the only thing we'll hear is "CXL! 2-SLOT DHS! 7-SLOT STRUCTURE UPGRADES! SMALLER LIGHTER GUNS! SHUT UP YOU STUPID CRUTCHBABBIES!" over and over and over again, probably mostly by JohnnyZ.

We're going to get our BattleMechs. The Jenner, especially, will be utterly breathtaking...in theory. For the next month or so, before we see what Piranha's new balance plan is. Or, to put it another way - until we see the absolute train wreck hash they're going to make of all Clan gear so they can finally settle the forums down on that matter.

Yeah, the Jenner IIC has six missile hardpoints and seven jump jets. As of right now, it takes the largest dump I've ever seen on the Oxide. In a couple of months, when the Oxide has six missile hardpoints and a 315 engine rating too? When they tell us what the Clan balancing efforts are going to be, and how nothing on the Clan side is ever going to get a positive quirk again while the Sphere side keeps maintaining their 50% Supermech quirks?

The Jenner IIC is going to need every single one of those six racks just to avoid being completely irrelevant. Watch it happen. I'll betcha.

So until then, can we please show just a little bit of excitement for the awesome new toys we'll never actually get to play with? The Highlander still looks boss as hell, and my God that Jenner would be incredible if it released tomorrow. Just utterly incredible.

1. All of those changes you "anticipate" are 100% speculation, meanwhile what is not speculation is that clans are going to get Battlemechs with access to clan tech and that Russ is quoted as saying the construction rules will be standard despite superior tech like cXL engines and such.

2. Even if the IIC mechs were balanced by nerfing the holy **** out of various aspects of clan technology, then that leaves clan omnimechs out in the cold and that is just as stupid.

[1453 R]

I was doing it on the fly in ten minutes at work between calls, Fup. Research was not something I had the luxury of doing

Besides! It got the point across, didn't it?

Pwned: the Origins 'Mechs being brutal and unrelenting engines of devastation also happens to be speculation. They're nearly six months out. A lot can happen between then and now. As for leaving OmniMechs out in the cold...well, as much as it would bother me, a goodly portion of the forum seems to've been screaming for the Clans to be rendered nigh unplayably bad since..well, since Wave I dropped. This latest balance pass will be pushed out "when the community is happy with it", and The Community is predominantly a bunch of Spheroids who want the game to be permanently stuck at 3025, many of whom would be totally okay with removing all Clan gear from the game without compensation for its previous owners.

Yeah, I'm just a twitch nervous over what you guys are going to do to my 'Mechs. No, I don't think there's a chance in hell I'm going to get to pilot a Jenner IIC that is actually good. Frankly, I'm surprised I'm going to get a crack at Arctic Cheetahs that aren't garbage. I don't anticipate it will last long.

Edited by 1453 R, 29 June 2015 - 05:37 PM.

[Thunder Child]

Well, all they need to do to ruin..... uh, I mean, "balance" the IIC mechs is things like +100% Ballistics CD to the Hunchie. Sorry, what? You don't like Goose Rifles that take 8 secs to recharge? Well, how about a 40% Jam Rate? No? +90% Heat Gen?

The Oxide IIC could just get a -50% ammo quirk.

The Highlander could get a +9001% Initial Jumpjet Thrust quirk. Sorry, but no amount of thrust will stop THAT landing. Oh, and locked JJs.

The Orion could get -50% LT and RT Armor quirks.

There ya go. The Clam IICs have been fixed to Spheroid expectations.

Give me an Inner Sphere Quirk Boat over a Clan Mech (except my Ebon or Summoner, but that is a Fetish from TT) any day.

[Impyrium]

I'm just going to admire the shinies and appreciate we finally got IIC 'mechs in the game.

[1453 R]

The real tooth-grinder is that all of this is basically because Spheroids don't have any of their goodies yet.

If this was a hundred years into the timeline's future? Nobody would bother with Clans, even with Clan gear in straight-from-TT form. Not when the Sphere has seventeen varieties of PPC, MMLs, MRMs, rotary everythings, Heavy everythings, Light everythings, VSPLs, at least three stealth systems the Clans never come close to parity on...

Heck, even ten measly years gives the Inner Sphere everything they need to hit back with. Frankly, as soon as MRMs hit the game us Clan-side folks are done. Nothing can really compare to stuffing forty tubes of death into a single hardpoint. Jenner IICs will not really be worrisome whatsoever when the Oxide can do three MRM-10s instead. Or worse.

[FupDup]

1453 R, on 29 June 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

The real tooth-grinder is that all of this is basically because Spheroids don't have any of their goodies yet.

If this was a hundred years into the timeline's future? Nobody would bother with Clans, even with Clan gear in straight-from-TT form. Not when the Sphere has seventeen varieties of PPC, MMLs, MRMs, rotary everythings, Heavy everythings, Light everythings, VSPLs, at least three stealth systems the Clans never come close to parity on...

Heck, even ten measly years gives the Inner Sphere everything they need to hit back with. Frankly, as soon as MRMs hit the game us Clan-side folks are done. Nothing can really compare to stuffing forty tubes of death into a single hardpoint. Jenner IICs will not really be worrisome whatsoever when the Oxide can do three MRM-10s instead. Or worse.

Note that in TT, most of the IS "advanced" tech was still inferior to Clan invasion-era tech.


MMLs: Significantly Inferior to ATMs, they also have fewer tube counts too

VSPLs and XPLs: Vastly inferior to Clan regular Pulse Lasers

Heavy and Light PPCs: Trying to imitate the mighty Clan ERPPC, failed at it (but in MWO, since it's not 15 damage they might have a chance)

Rotary ACs: Clans made their own, too, just being 1 critslot larger for some odd reason

MRMs: In TT they tried to mimic the damage-per-ton of Clan LRMs but failed, but with MWO's LRM mechanics I guess Clan LRMs wouldn't be superior to MRMs like TT

Light Gauss: Mediocre, 8 damage for 12 tons and a tiny range boost over Clan Gauss

Light ACs: Mirrored by Clan Protomech ACs, which are slightly better at it

Magshots: Inferior to AP Gauss

etc.


However, with MWO being MWO, I guess that PGI could make that IS fancy tech actually compete if they wanted to. Keywords "if they wanted to..."

Edited by FupDup, 29 June 2015 - 06:07 PM.

[Thunder Child]

I'm just waiting for my T-bolt missiles. Or Arrow. As soon as either of those are implemented, I'm dusting of my Catapults.
Although Dual RAC10s on a Jager could be fun too.

Edit: Or a Dual Heavy Gauss King Crab. Failing that, just give us the Fafnir and be done with it. Nothing quite like a dual 20pt Damage Gauss.

Edited by Thunder Child, 29 June 2015 - 06:18 PM.

[FupDup]

Thunder Child, on 29 June 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

I'm just waiting for my T-bolt missiles. Or Arrow. As soon as either of those are implemented, I'm dusting of my Catapults.
Although Dual RAC10s on a Jager could be fun too.

RAC10's don't exist, there's only RAC2 and RAC5.

I think you're thinking of the MW4 MekTek mod? They made up several of their own weapons...

[Thunder Child]

FupDup, on 29 June 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

RAC10's don't exist, there's only RAC2 and RAC5.

I think you're thinking of the MW4 MekTek mod? They made up several of their own weapons...

My bad. Yes, I was. I played quite a bit of Mektek. Oh well, quad RAC 2s will have to do then.