246 replies to this topic

[Mister Blastman]

Imperius, on 30 July 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

I don't ignore his Twitter, why do you think he came in this thread? Obviously you don't know my Twitter...

I don't use Twitter. It's a waste of time. Anyways, enjoy your crusade. It might be a very long while before they get to it. I'm excited about all the other new things they'll add in the meantime to enrich the gameplay we get to experience.

[Imperius]

Mister Blastman, on 30 July 2015 - 07:31 PM, said:

I don't use Twitter. It's a waste of time. Anyways, enjoy your crusade. It might be a very long while before they get to it. I'm excited about all the other new things they'll add in the meantime to enrich the gameplay we get to experience.

I knew you came here just to troll, no proof of anything, no legitimate reasons backing up your claims, and insults have a great day man. Please see yourself out you've derailed the thread enough.

[Mister Blastman]

Imperius, on 30 July 2015 - 07:36 PM, said:

I knew you came here just to troll, no proof of anything, no legitimate reasons backing up your claims, and insults have a great day man. Please see yourself out you've derailed the thread enough.

Legitmate reasons? Read the forums. There are PLENTY of other issues folks would like fixed that would have a far more meaningful impact to the game. Troll? Nope. Not at all. I'm just telling what I observe around here and graphics are a minor issue.

The truth of the matter is for the most part, there's plenty other things to keep PGI busy for years before they get around to updating to a new graphics API.

[nitra]

Imperius, on 30 July 2015 - 07:30 PM, said:

Maps and polish is the art team, and since you said polish you won't be getting any more of that unless we upgrade to DX12

LOL dx12 is not some magic everything pill .......

dx12 is not just plug and play . especially in this game.

if it was new then yes but as it stands right now no.

not with out a team dedicated to porting it over and that takes time, effort, and money, that would be better spent elsewhere as the move to dx 12 is not going to change the basic game play of mech warrior online.


oh and by the way .... Polish

so no not just the art team.

Edited by nitra, 30 July 2015 - 07:51 PM.

[Imperius]

nitra, on 30 July 2015 - 07:47 PM, said:

LOL dx12 is not some magic everything pill .......

dx12 is not just plug and play . especially in this game.

if it was new then yes but as it stands right now no.

not with out a team dedicated to porting it over and that takes time, effort, and money, that would be better spent elsewhere as the move to dx 12 is not going to change the basic game play of mech warrior online.

It took two engineers 6 weeks to port their game in cryengine to DX 12, are you telling me that increased FPS and resources across the board won't change MWO?

Most of your claimes about what needs fixed seems to come from the art team which isn't needed to add DX12

Strait for your polish link... You're digging your own grave with each post.

r. For an engineer, polishing means is it optimized."

Edited by Imperius, 30 July 2015 - 07:57 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

nitra, on 30 July 2015 - 07:26 PM, said:

game polish, maps are a prime example look at the new river city

game modes absolutely terrible game modes these have need fixing for a long time. sure they provide the basics for game play but they could be so much more better.

we need Solaris

we need stock only matches

we need escort the urbie matches


and we need reasons to play these modes like extra goodies or badges or trophies or anything that breaks up nascar 3055

netcode netcode netcode cryengine needs better netcode pgi found this out the hard way .

art assets if the game wants to be free to play then it needs to fully embrace the pimp your mecha. as much as i hate angel wings mwo needs its own equivalent to these in game.
whether it be spot lights, netting, crates and other odds and ends selling mech pimping gear should be on the plate. and russ should really look into licensing the hello kitty tradmark and make a camo for it .. because it will sell sell sell. why i dont know but it will. just imagine the hello kitty urbie with special add on ears. (dear lord) .


oh yeah the biggie ... mc to allow us to attach cammo to maps !!! that would boost some extra income.
allowing you to have a favorite camo for use on each map snow camo for snow maps desert camo for desert maps etc etc. and last but not least helo kity camo for mordor.

basically we need attention to game mechanics game design and how the game is played.

as for why this needs the programmer/engineers ummmm because who else is going to do it ?

A lot of what YOU listed as 'NEEDED' has already been stated as NOT HAPPENING by Russ in Town Halls and on Twitter, do you realize that? And most of what you demand isn't programming, it's art assets, again, do you realize that?

DX12 upgrade will take 2 people a couple of months of work, that's for the assets and programming changes needed on top of what CryTek already did with the DX12 upgrade for the engine. Yeah, it's THAT complicated! It won't take a dedicated team half a year or longer, not even close to that, hell 2 guys did the entire upgrade for Age of Wushu in 6 weeks. CryTek has had the DX12 upgrade for CryEngine 3 for a few months now, it's not THAT complicated of a deal, despite what you think.

Thing is, it IS a couple of months of work, not something you kick out in a week or two, and it'll be a pain because many of the things PGI has done to the engine for MWO will have issues with the CryTek DX12 installed, as it will undoubtedly undo many things they've already done, so they'll have to redo a lot of stuff, it's mainly PITA grunt work, but it's slow, gotta find all those changes that got undone by hand, because there won't be a change log showing you them and I'm pretty sure a lot of the changes PGI's made aren't properly documented(we know this already) which makes it even more fun! It's a bug hunt in a dark room with a blind fold on and no nets! So, I'd just as soon they get some other things done first, as they do take priority, and not a single one of the things on your list is one of them.

And actually, upgrading to DX12 will garner this game customers, because it will look a LOT better, and that's a big complaint among the users now, this game does NOT make good use of the graphics that CryEngine can do. New players say it too, this game doesn't look like a CryEngine game, it's too drab, too dull, not vibrant and pretty. DX12 will definitely help with that, as well as allowing a lot more effects and particles without killing performance, and eye candy, despite what a FEW of you say, really is quite important. Sorry Blastman, no one really gives a rat's ass about your DOS based games and how much you enjoy them, the average customer wants a game that reaches out and grabs them by the eyeballs and yanks them into the game. You don't, that's cool and all, but you are such a minority of a minority of the playerbase that you literally don't matter. No offense, but if you like old DOS games, your opinion is literally not worth the neurons required to process it.

[nitra]

Imperius, on 30 July 2015 - 07:51 PM, said:

It took two engineers 6 weeks to port their game in cryengine to DX 12, are you telling me that increased FPS and resources across the board won't change MWO?

Most of your claimes about what needs fixed seems to come from the art team which isn't needed to add DX12

that example you keep using is not applicable here .... why cant you understand that .

and why is it so difficult to understand that in game art is not just creating a 3d model and dropping it in game ,

all my features suggested will require engineering. some to a greater degree than others.

but your to blind to see that something has got you set on this whole dx12 thing i swear your paid buy Microsoft to this.

[Imperius]

nitra, on 30 July 2015 - 08:09 PM, said:

that example you keep using is not applicable here .... why cant you understand that .

and why is it so difficult to understand that in game art is not just creating a 3d model and dropping it in game ,

all my features suggested will require engineering. some to a greater degree than others.

but your to blind to see that something has got you set on this whole dx12 thing i swear your paid buy Microsoft to this.

What paid to sell free copies of Windows 10? Dude if Windows wanted MWO to have DX 12 I'm pretty sure they would just walk into PGI studio drop cash talk to Russ drop of some DX12 engineers for 6 month contract and walk out.

You on the other hand just spit out uneducated guesses and claims left and right. I already shut down the dude claiming he got his info from Twitter then turned around and claimed he didn't use Twitter.

Did I kill you in the game or something? You seem to have a vendetta.

Edited by Imperius, 30 July 2015 - 08:17 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Imperius, on 30 July 2015 - 08:16 PM, said:

What paid to sell free copies of Windows 10? Dude if Windows wanted MWO to have DX 12 I'm pretty sure they would just walk into PGI studio drop cash talk to Russ drop of some DX12 engineers for 6 month contract and walk out.

You on the other hand just spit out uneducated guesses and claims left and right. I already shut down the dude claiming he got his info from Twitter then turned around and claimed he didn't use Twitter.

Did I kill you in the game or something? You seem to have a vendetta.

I think you're delusional. That must be it. I quoted someone else who got their quote from twitter--so no, you didn't shut me down. My quote above is a legitimate quote (possibly paraphrased, who knows? Doesn't matter). But keep it up, you're only making yourself look bad at this point.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 30 July 2015 - 08:59 PM.

[nitra]

Kristov Kerensky, on 30 July 2015 - 08:02 PM, said:

A lot of what YOU listed as 'NEEDED' has already been stated as NOT HAPPENING by Russ in Town Halls and on Twitter, do you realize that? And most of what you demand isn't programming, it's art assets, again, do you realize that?

DX12 upgrade will take 2 people a couple of months of work, that's for the assets and programming changes needed on top of what CryTek already did with the DX12 upgrade for the engine. Yeah, it's THAT complicated! It won't take a dedicated team half a year or longer, not even close to that, hell 2 guys did the entire upgrade for Age of Wushu in 6 weeks. CryTek has had the DX12 upgrade for CryEngine 3 for a few months now, it's not THAT complicated of a deal, despite what you think.

Thing is, it IS a couple of months of work, not something you kick out in a week or two, and it'll be a pain because many of the things PGI has done to the engine for MWO will have issues with the CryTek DX12 installed, as it will undoubtedly undo many things they've already done, so they'll have to redo a lot of stuff, it's mainly PITA grunt work, but it's slow, gotta find all those changes that got undone by hand, because there won't be a change log showing you them and I'm pretty sure a lot of the changes PGI's made aren't properly documented(we know this already) which makes it even more fun! It's a bug hunt in a dark room with a blind fold on and no nets! So, I'd just as soon they get some other things done first, as they do take priority, and not a single one of the things on your list is one of them.

And actually, upgrading to DX12 will garner this game customers, because it will look a LOT better, and that's a big complaint among the users now, this game does NOT make good use of the graphics that CryEngine can do. New players say it too, this game doesn't look like a CryEngine game, it's too drab, too dull, not vibrant and pretty. DX12 will definitely help with that, as well as allowing a lot more effects and particles without killing performance, and eye candy, despite what a FEW of you say, really is quite important. Sorry Blastman, no one really gives a rat's ass about your DOS based games and how much you enjoy them, the average customer wants a game that reaches out and grabs them by the eyeballs and yanks them into the game. You don't, that's cool and all, but you are such a minority of a minority of the playerbase that you literally don't matter. No offense, but if you like old DOS games, your opinion is literally not worth the neurons required to process it.

First I did not demand anything mind you. i know you read the question that was asked so there is no need to construct your post as an attack on my ideas as premise for how mwo should be played . my answer was what i though the game needed. irrelevant to town halls and twitter droppings and regardless those ideas are a hell of lot better than adding dx12 to the game.
Again these porting to dx12 examples are not applicable. different code base, different art different engineers , totally different freaking games. was age of wushu even dx9 when it came out ?? Then you confusingly go into detail how it will be difficult to implement dx12 in this current engine of mwo

Kristov Kerensky said:

'it's not THAT complicated of a deal, despite what you think."

Kristov Kerensky said:

"Thing is, it IS a couple of months of work, not something you kick out in a week or two, and it'll be a pain because many of the things PGI has done to the engine for MWO will have issues with the CryTek DX12 installed, as it will undoubtedly undo many things they've already done, so they'll have to redo a lot of stuff, it's mainly PITA grunt work"

wow that really sounds umm complicated.

Kristov Kerensky said:

" it's slow, gotta find all those changes that got undone by hand, because there won't be a change log showing you them and I'm pretty sure a lot of the changes PGI's made aren't properly documented(we know this already) which makes it even more fun! It's a bug hunt in a dark room with a blind fold on and no nets! So, I'd just as soon they get some other things done first, as they do take priority, and not a single one of the things on your list is one of them.

yep this will be quick project .. . i have no idea what you was trying to accomplish there but it further reinforces why dx12 is bad idea at this stage for mwo .
and your whole argument about graphics is rendered null by the 20,346,974 people who bought minecraft further reinforced by 10,000+ of them being new players
and to further address whatever that was you posted my ideas would need engineering into the game they are not just art assets .
just to reinforce the point since it seemed lost on you.
i personally would rather have tangible game changing features that provides me with more game modes more things to do with my mech and more things to do in game rather than have a api update that will mainly increase client side performance .

and no. dx12 will not make this game look any better.. that will take more work in the art assets ala the new river city map. as case in point.

Edited by nitra, 30 July 2015 - 09:23 PM.

[nitra]

Imperius, on 30 July 2015 - 08:16 PM, said:

What paid to sell free copies of Windows 10? Dude if Windows wanted MWO to have DX 12 I'm pretty sure they would just walk into PGI studio drop cash talk to Russ drop of some DX12 engineers for 6 month contract and walk out.

You on the other hand just spit out uneducated guesses and claims left and right. I already shut down the dude claiming he got his info from Twitter then turned around and claimed he didn't use Twitter.

Did I kill you in the game or something? You seem to have a vendetta.

Forgive me im just struggling to understand the effort and the time you are putting into pushing for dx12

i mean c'mon a few post a week ok maybe fine your a advocate for dx 12 thats great . i cant wait to see some of the first dx 12 games to .

but no .

all of sudden and seemingly out of nowhere this whole mech warrior online needs dx12!!!

then the rhetoric you spill is nothing short of propaganda.

it is flat out marketing, intentional or not it still is .

and then you try to insult and attack those who disagree with you

its just frankly bizarre behavior.

all over some api that were not even playing with yet.

vendetta ? no just really confused and being the jaded person i am when it comes to technology .

your fanaticism is quite grading when it comes to untested technologies.

[Imperius]

I've been around since closed beta there are few things I fight for I'll list 3 and 1.5 of them have happened so far.

One I was a huge advocate for playing in groups larger than 4 with your friends. (Builds Community)
Two Single Player/Co-Op campaign. (Needed First User Experience for Steam and closing the skill gap do to the high learning curve)
Three performance and graphic fedility. (Dx12 will have a high adoption rate because it's free and sold as the "Gaming Windows")

I really don't care if you think I'm a marketing guy, point will be big names already are porting dx12, I'm sure rivals will too, 78% of steam uses DX11 it's time to drop DX9 and move MWO into the future where it belongs. Steam requires at least the first 2 bullets the 3rd like it or not will attract many to this f2p do some research DX12 is the era of gaming on PC.

[TWIAFU]

DivideOverflow, on 30 July 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

I'm getting a CTD on launch (when I click play) after moving to windows 10. I updated the nvidia driver, Windows says MWO is incompatible.

GTX 870M, i7-4810MQ, 16gb ram.

PM me if you read this.

Had a couple issues myself and MIGHT be able to help.

NVM, reads like you got it fixed.

Edited by TWIAFU, 31 July 2015 - 02:40 AM.

[Thorqemada]

German Computerbase has tested the Win10 Gaming Performance and Win10 is even without Dx12 often faster.
Graphic Cards like the Radeon Fury and Radeon 390 run up to 20% faster in games like Ryse, Attila or Project Cars:
http://www.computerb...eschwindigkeit/

Nvidia has also performance increases.

Overall Radoeons have bigger gains in specific games while GeForces gain something in all games - the faster the GPU is the bigger the gain (reason for the gain is how the Drivers work in Win10 that uses the new WDDM 2.0).

Edited by Thorqemada, 31 July 2015 - 07:48 AM.

[hero2zero]

Not related to the previous comments, but to the original post: I've just upgraded my fresh win 8.1 install to windows 10 and installed MWO. First impression after a couple of training and live matches is that the performance is at least on par with that of windows 7 (DX9 since DX11 would crash for me every 5th match or so). So thumbs up for MWO on windows 10.

[LORD ORION]

Quote

Probably the best example in a while that shows why I don't spend more time on the forums. Wild assumptions.

Website quote functionality is not working in MS Edge.... now I can't quote like-a-boss, like you.

Also 64bit client does not work for me in Win10 x64.... it did work for me in Win7 x64 though.

Pls fix mech is dead packets? I can shoot 500 registered dmg into a mech and it does not die.

[Imperius]

Mister Blastman, on 30 July 2015 - 08:58 PM, said:

I think you're delusional. That must be it. I quoted someone else who got their quote from twitter--so no, you didn't shut me down. My quote above is a legitimate quote (possibly paraphrased, who knows? Doesn't matter). But keep it up, you're only making yourself look bad at this point.

I get notifications from his Twitter, and the quote in question is from a year ago when DX12 wasn't even a thing, it was referring to DX11 updates which since DX11 was performing poor anyway PGI decided to not support it past adding the basic API.

I'll even give you a link to the Twitter conversation to where Russ did come in here and say DX12 will happen, but when is the question. I'm far from delusional.

Here is the Twitter link
https://twitter.com/...879322037485568

Edited by Imperius, 31 July 2015 - 06:06 AM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

nitra, on 30 July 2015 - 09:05 PM, said:

and your whole argument about graphics is rendered null by the 20,346,974 people who bought minecraft further reinforced by 10,000+ of them being new players

I'm not part of this argument, but I just wanted to chime in on this part.
You're confusing art style with graphics. (there's a TL;DR at the bottom if you don't want to read everything...)

Minecraft:
Minecraft is a sandbox game with building blocks and crafting. With a style focused around 8-bit/blocky look, you can only make the giant pixels in their textures so crisp. If graphics weren’t important, there wouldn't be any particle effects coming off of the blocks when you hit them with your pick axe, or shadows and light. Except that Minecraft does have that. And it goes to show the importance of graphics. I'll note that I’ve seen a few games try to pull off the Minecraft look, and I find they just can’t do it, it’s either jarring to look at, or there isn’t any consistency in appeance and doesn’t feel right. Just because there's "lesser" requirements for graphics, doesn't mean that it's the best choice...

Basically, because Minecraft looks blocky and doesn't require beefy graphics cards doesn't mean that Minecraft has no graphics. It’s just their choices for art style are limiting the need to do anything more. The gameplay and art style complement each other well.

MWO:
Now, this is where things get vastly different with MWO. Higher fidelity and a realistic appearance in MWO serves the purpose of convincing the player in a setting that is relatable and believable. Something easily defined with one word: immersion (although I don’t like saying that word because people are sick of hearing it).
Obviously to achieve this comes with its own hardware requirements and dependencies on graphics. From day one we were told MWO would be an immersive AAA game with the high level of fidelity. "Graphics” in this regard would require better reflections, lighting, higher textures, more environmental greebles, particles and so forth as a realistic appearance/immersion are a key point. (and in my opinion, probably the only real part that is “sim” about MWO… I think maybe PGI silently shuffled the sim part of their game under the rug.)



The amount of people playing a type of game says very little about the importance of graphics in games (Yes, you’ll notice that you made this point, so you are right, but in the wrong context). Graphics are an art choice, and popularity says more about what type of game it is, rather than how it looks. The only thing that it suggests is that lesser hardware requirements means that it’s available to a wider range of players, but not because people don’t care about graphics. (Minecraft is on tablets, phones, computers, and promoted as a learning game for children to inspire their creativity… I mean come on. Comparing the amount of players in Minecraft vs MWO isn’t even fair and is a biased point of view in some regards).
If the game requires graphics to enforce the “immersion” that was advertised, like MWO, I have no problem demanding for that.


Anyways, TL;DR:
Graphics do and don’t matter. I felt that you used the "20mill people bought Minecraft" point incorrectly. They don’t matter as much for Minecraft, they do matter for MWO. Different games. Popularity says more (in comparison) about accessibility, which graphics do affect, but doesn’t imply that graphics are invalid across all platforms or games.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 31 July 2015 - 07:52 AM.

[Charronn]

The graphics are great as is,I don't really see the need for dx12.
New maps,modes is what me need.

[Kristov Kerensky]

nitra, on 30 July 2015 - 09:05 PM, said:

First I did not demand anything mind you. i know you read the question that was asked so there is no need to construct your post as an attack on my ideas as premise for how mwo should be played . my answer was what i though the game needed. irrelevant to town halls and twitter droppings and regardless those ideas are a hell of lot better than adding dx12 to the game.
Again these porting to dx12 examples are not applicable. different code base, different art different engineers , totally different freaking games. was age of wushu even dx9 when it came out ?? Then you confusingly go into detail how it will be difficult to implement dx12 in this current engine of mwo




wow that really sounds umm complicated.



yep this will be quick project .. . i have no idea what you was trying to accomplish there but it further reinforces why dx12 is bad idea at this stage for mwo .
and your whole argument about graphics is rendered null by the 20,346,974 people who bought minecraft further reinforced by 10,000+ of them being new players
and to further address whatever that was you posted my ideas would need engineering into the game they are not just art assets .
just to reinforce the point since it seemed lost on you.
i personally would rather have tangible game changing features that provides me with more game modes more things to do with my mech and more things to do in game rather than have a api update that will mainly increase client side performance .

and no. dx12 will not make this game look any better.. that will take more work in the art assets ala the new river city map. as case in point.

I actually did graphics, modelling and effects coding, so I do know what's involved. The actual upgrading and updating of the code, simple process, not complicated, not difficult, few weeks of work NORMALLY to work out any kinks and bugs that might occur.

PGI's situation with MWO is something we have direct knowledge of, we know there's lots of coding that wasn't documented and that the current dev team doesn't understand, and the people who did the work probably don't remember why they did what they did, it worked, end of story, forget it because there's another thousand things on your list for this week, move on.

So updating the API, not that complicated. Fixing all the changes that no one was even aware were made and got undone when updating the API, PITA, takes time, we're talking WEEKS not months however.

Age of Wushu was a DX9/11 game, took 2 of their devs 6 weeks of time to upgrade it to DX12 and get all the graphical goodness out of DX12 on top of that. You should check it out, really is quite amazing what the final results are. Increased eye candy by a pretty big factor, seriously decreased overhead by a huge factor, so much so that they could double or triple the number of entities on the screen at a time while increasing the fps AND dropping the overhead cost, all with the amazing boost to graphical fidelity. THAT is what sold me on DX12, not the tech demos, but the actual conversion of a working game to DX12 and the final results of that conversion. It's finally the fantasy that MS has been preaching about DX for so many years, come to reality.

All reports so far say the same, MWO runs better under Win10 than it does under any other OS, can't wait to get my system upgraded and get that performance boost myself, it's not NEEDED but it's always nice to get better performance at no cost to quality. Sorry you don't understand that.

Oh, and Minecraft, MoonUnitBeta covered the art side pretty well, let me touch on some other factors for you. Minecraft isn't very successful yet, it's numbers aren't even a fraction of CoD or GTAs, seriously, we're talking almost 200m units for those games EACH, compared to 20m for Minecraft. It's put out on almost every single OS out there, PC, Mac, iOS, Android, Windows Phone, hell even Amazon Kindle Fire! People get it for their kids, it's a safe game, no blood, no drugs, the violence is so non-violent it's a joke(seriously, have you watched the game being played or played it, I have, my grandson loves it when he's not blasting people in CoD or Borderlands 2, he likes to get in Minecraft and build stuff for hours). His parents and I have spent less on Minecraft than we'd spend on Legos, and we don't have to worry about stepping on anything in the middle of the night, so it's WELL worth the price! You have to look at the game, what it's marketed at, before you can say 'you can do just fine with bad graphics!', because that's not reality. Minecraft has no immersion factor AT ALL, it doesn't try to have one, it's a sandbox building game for kids. MWO is a combat game for adults where immersion is part of the game, so looking as realistic as possible is a selling feature, ugly graphics are not.