246 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

luigi256, on 02 July 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

Please do Jazzbandit. I'm also interested in if the game can play on windows 10.

It DOES play on 10 and WELL!

[Kristov Kerensky]

Almond Brown, on 30 July 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Pretty sure DX12 will require appropriate "graphics hardware" be operating as well. Those on-board graphic chips likely wont cut it with DX12. LOL

As Imperius already covered that, I'll just add that Russ already stated, MWO will not be upgraded for DX12 any time soon. The CryEngine 3 that MWO is running on HAS a DX12 update already put out by CryTek, there is ONE teeny tiny problem with that update however. It totally kills all DX9 functionality in the engine. That's a CryTek thing, NOT a DX12 thing, they did that with how they did their DX12 update.

[Mister Blastman]

Kristov Kerensky, on 30 July 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

I'll just add that Russ already stated, MWO will not be upgraded for DX12 any time soon.

Thank goodness! They've got their priorities straight here. Lots of other things they need to be spending their time on and it looks like that's what they've decided to do.

[KraftySOT]

Yeah and PGI simply doesnt have the staff familiar with it, or the capital to hire a good one.

Hence why their installer still needs C++ distributions from 2008.

Speaking of which, Windows 10 finally killed that problem. No one should have installer problems anymore. If they do get a corrupt file, supposedly windows update should fix that file. Windows no longer embeds any C++ distributions. Its all dynamically downloaded.

Edited by KraftySOT, 30 July 2015 - 09:12 AM.

[Sprouticus]

Kristov Kerensky, on 30 July 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

As Imperius already covered that, I'll just add that Russ already stated, MWO will not be upgraded for DX12 any time soon. The CryEngine 3 that MWO is running on HAS a DX12 update already put out by CryTek, there is ONE teeny tiny problem with that update however. It totally kills all DX9 functionality in the engine. That's a CryTek thing, NOT a DX12 thing, they did that with how they did their DX12 update.

In theory they could have a separate DX12 download, but if they fork it like that it could be a pain from a graphical bug standpoint.

What I would prefer to see is in maybe 6 months come out with 2 versions, then stop fixing bugs for DX9/11 in a year. At that point any PC that can't run DX12 will be literally 6 or 7 years old.

My FX-8100/Raedon 7600 series machine can run Dx 12 and that was mid level hardware 3+ years ago when closed beta came out.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Mister Blastman, on 30 July 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Thank goodness! They've got their priorities straight here. Lots of other things they need to be spending their time on and it looks like that's what they've decided to do.

Actually, DX12 would do a lot for the game, without them actually spending any time updating the graphics, as it really does make games run faster across the board. And it's a constant complaint, MWO runs slow, fps are low, etc, and it would help EVERYONE who's system isn't below the standards needed for the CryTek 3 engine. Win10 users are already seeing an increase in fps, and that's without the extra boost DX12 would give.

KraftySOT, on 30 July 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

Yeah and PGI simply doesnt have the staff familiar with it, or the capital to hire a good one.

Hence why their installer still needs C++ distributions from 2008.

Speaking of which, Windows 10 finally killed that problem. No one should have installer problems anymore. If they do get a corrupt file, supposedly windows update should fix that file. Windows no longer embeds any C++ distributions. Its all dynamically downloaded.

Is it really PGI at fault there or is that a CryTek engine thing? Seem to recall the same thing with SC, so I'm inclined to believe it's a CryTek issue.

And getting DX12 up and running isn't that difficult, CryTek has it already to go, it just means losing all DX9 functionality, which means a big chunk of the playerbase wouldn't be able to play MWO anymore, and that's TOTALLY on CryTek, they did that when they upgraded the engine to DX12, plenty of other software out there upgraded to 12 still supports 9.

[Imperius]

Kristov Kerensky, on 30 July 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

As Imperius already covered that, I'll just add that Russ already stated, MWO will not be upgraded for DX12 any time soon. The CryEngine 3 that MWO is running on HAS a DX12 update already put out by CryTek, there is ONE teeny tiny problem with that update however. It totally kills all DX9 functionality in the engine. That's a CryTek thing, NOT a DX12 thing, they did that with how they did their DX12 update.

DX 9 is sadly still in the game because DX 11 performs like crap for some people. If your card supports DX 11 then it will run 12 just fine as it will run the basics of 12 which is a huge thing. If your card is not new enough to use DX 11 you need to update that simple that means your card is over 5 yrs old.

[KraftySOT]

Kristov Kerensky, on 30 July 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

Actually, DX12 would do a lot for the game, without them actually spending any time updating the graphics, as it really does make games run faster across the board. And it's a constant complaint, MWO runs slow, fps are low, etc, and it would help EVERYONE who's system isn't below the standards needed for the CryTek 3 engine. Win10 users are already seeing an increase in fps, and that's without the extra boost DX12 would give.



Is it really PGI at fault there or is that a CryTek engine thing? Seem to recall the same thing with SC, so I'm inclined to believe it's a CryTek issue.

And getting DX12 up and running isn't that difficult, CryTek has it already to go, it just means losing all DX9 functionality, which means a big chunk of the playerbase wouldn't be able to play MWO anymore, and that's TOTALLY on CryTek, they did that when they upgraded the engine to DX12, plenty of other software out there upgraded to 12 still supports 9.

PGI.

Its the installer. CryTek has nothing to do with Install Shield (or whatever they use). PGI had to make their own installer, either using an existing "install engine" like Install Shield, or writing their own, so thats on them. The uninstaller is the same thing. Relies on extremely old, and for three windows versions, extremely difficult to repair, C++ redistributibles.

Also putting it in, isnt the problem, its converting and making assets that take advantage of it.

Its like, you have direct X 11 on your machine now, do you know how to make a shader, and put that shader into a game? Yeah. So for DX12, cool, you know how to make shaders for DX11, do you know how to make tessellation? No? Yeah you need to hire a guy for that.

Just because you can update your engine, and it now supports tessellation, you still have to actually make assets that utilize tessellation, put those in game, and make them work.

There isnt an ambient occlusion or depth of field, and thats DX11, and supported by CryTek...so I have to assume its because no one at PGI knows how to use those features. Its not just a matter of HAVING the feature, you have to actually know how to put it in a game.

If you hack the heck out of it, you can get ENB to work with MWO, and get some Depth of Field. Its really wonky.

Edited by KraftySOT, 30 July 2015 - 10:08 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

KraftySOT, on 30 July 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

PGI.

Its the installer. CryTek has nothing to do with Install Shield (or whatever they use). PGI had to make their own installer, either using an existing "install engine" like Install Shield, or writing their own, so thats on them. The uninstaller is the same thing. Relies on extremely old, and for three windows versions, extremely difficult to repair, C++ redistributibles.

Also putting it in, isnt the problem, its converting and making assets that take advantage of it.

Its like, you have direct X 11 on your machine now, do you know how to make a shader, and put that shader into a game? Yeah. So for DX12, cool, you know how to make shaders for DX11, do you know how to make tessellation? No? Yeah you need to hire a guy for that.

Just because you can update your engine, and it now supports tessellation, you still have to actually make assets that utilize tessellation, put those in game, and make them work.

There isnt an ambient occlusion or depth of field, and thats DX11, and supported by CryTek...so I have to assume its because no one at PGI knows how to use those features. Its not just a matter of HAVING the feature, you have to actually know how to put it in a game.

If you hack the heck out of it, you can get ENB to work with MWO, and get some Depth of Field. Its really wonky.

The installer I'll give you, not my thing, never worked with them, that was always someone else's headache

As far as implementing DX12, PGI isn't going to do it because too many of the playerbase are DX9 based, so it really doesn't matter what it would take, they won't do it regardless. Which really sucks, the performance increase with 12 is really something, and the graphic goodness that comes with that performance boost is just...WOW!

Imperius, if 11 doesn't work, your card doesn't actually support it, simple as that. I know a lot of people bought 'new' vcards which aren't 'new' at all, they've been sitting on a shelf somewhere for years now, they are multiple generations behind the current 'new' vcards. I had a GTX470, full DX11 support, and there was an actual obvious increase in performance between 9 and 11 on that card. My current GTX 750, it's an even more obvious performance boost between 9 and 11. I would see a jump of 10-15fps with my 470, it's 25-30fps with my 750 in MWO, other games, it's a lot more pronounced, 25fps on the 470, 40fps on the 750(MWO is real cpu bound). If you don't see that performance boost, you've probably got a driver issue, or a cpu bottleneck, or both, as MWO is real cpu bound(CryEngine issue, all CryEngine games have this, even SC and they have a much better version of the engine).

CryEngine can do some amazing things, but we all know PGI really isn't taking advantage of that, but it does have some serious drawbacks, like being cpu bound, the total loss of all DX9 functionality if you upgrade to DX12, and the entire clientside auth netcode as part of the core engine. Even CIG is finding out that they may have not chosen the best engine to build SC on as time goes by

[KraftySOT]

Well in theory, you can, make it for both spectrums.

GTA5 for the PC is a pretty good example of how to elegantly do your "graphics options". Though they too, dropped some stuff at the last minute because basically no one can use it yet (just a small segment of the top end of PC users), and it just was increasing the already enormous footprint of the game itself.

Youre absolutely right though, PGI wont do it. Not even if they had the capital, or know how. If its not worth Rockstar doing it, why would PGI?

As well right about the limitations, and unused aspects of Cryengine.

Its a shame.

Im just happy we got a 64bit client AT ALL.

Edited by KraftySOT, 30 July 2015 - 11:01 AM.

[Richard Hazen]

Upgraded mine and it works fine

[Ordin Hall]

Does this game even run at a playable framerate on DX9 tier cards? If not, I don't see the point in supporting it.

[TWIAFU]

TWIAFU, on 30 July 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

It DOES play on 10 and WELL!

Ok, I did have a small issue with Win10 and MWO.

Had a couple of Visual C++ errors, reinstalling the 2010 x64 redistributable as Admin fixed it.

Also reinstalled Dx via web setup as Admin.

That was the only hiccup I encountered with 10 and MWO.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Ordin Hall, on 30 July 2015 - 12:55 PM, said:

Does this game even run at a playable framerate on DX9 tier cards? If not, I don't see the point in supporting it.

According to many of the people using DX9 who CAN use DX11, they use it instead of 11 because 9 gives them better fps. The only time 9 will give better fps is if your system doesn't actually support 11 properly due to the conditions I already mentioned, drivers, cpu bottleneck, or both. So these people wouldn't be able to use 12 anyway.

Now, people who don't have 11 as an option, I'd say the game probably runs pretty badly, but if they find it acceptable, what can you do? PGI isn't going to upgrade the engine to 12 due to the amount of the playerbase using 9, which says it all, that number is obviously much larger than the number using 11, by a pretty good factor I'd wager, otherwise the money they'd lose wouldn't be worth sticking with outdated tech that isn't supported anymore by the creators of said tech.

Keep in mind, MOST of the people playing online games are using systems that are typically below the min required specs, been that way since online gaming started and hasn't gotten any better. I still laugh when someone complains that their system should run PS2 or BF4 better than it does because WoW runs great on it. WoW has, sadly, created an entire generation of online gamers who just don't realize that new games generally require new hardware, because Blizzard has been careful to make sure WoW will still run on systems from 2006. MWO wouldn't even load on the min req system for WoW, while the recommended system for WoW would barely run MWO in low at 30fps, so the average gamer doesn't get why MWO runs so badly when WoW runs great. Hit Newegg, video cards, check the reviews, you'll quickly see that WoW is the standard most people use, it's THE online game everyone knows, so it's what they judge everything else by, and they get so confused when a vcard that runs WoW at 60fps won't run MWO at all

[Tristan Winter]

Rhaythe, on 30 July 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

Don't bother with that. Go to the source:
https://www.microsof...nload/windows10

Oh God, thanks for that.

I spent hours yesterday trying to install Windows 10 on my two computers that didn't get the notification.

[Piney II]

I'm installing W10 on my gaming machine now. Hope it works!

[spectralthundr]

Mister Blastman, on 30 July 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Thank goodness! They've got their priorities straight here. Lots of other things they need to be spending their time on and it looks like that's what they've decided to do.

There's a good reason for that, the way Crytek handled their engine DX12 update it kills support for DX9. But yes please blame PGI for it.

On topic, game runs fine with Win 10 64bit so far.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Tristan Winter, on 30 July 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

Oh God, thanks for that.

I spent hours yesterday trying to install Windows 10 on my two computers that didn't get the notification.

If you don't have the little Windows 10 thing in your status bar, it means you are missing some Windows Updates, run the updater and it'll magically show up after that. I had this on my personal gaming rig at home, never got the Win10 notification on it, so I checked with MS, missing some updates they said. Rather surprised me since I literally just updated my system this week, but whatever, ran their updater and...wow...a long ass list of missing updates that for some reason the automatic updater never installed. So, ran that and boom, Win10 indicator showing up now! I'll probably update my personal rig tonight when I get off work.

The work computers, well, probably do them tomorrow, or maybe come in on saturday and do it, when no one is using them, depends on how long it takes.

[Tristan Winter]

Kristov Kerensky, on 30 July 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

If you don't have the little Windows 10 thing in your status bar, it means you are missing some Windows Updates, run the updater and it'll magically show up after that. I had this on my personal gaming rig at home, never got the Win10 notification on it, so I checked with MS, missing some updates they said. Rather surprised me since I literally just updated my system this week, but whatever, ran their updater and...wow...a long ass list of missing updates that for some reason the automatic updater never installed. So, ran that and boom, Win10 indicator showing up now! I'll probably update my personal rig tonight when I get off work.
The work computers, well, probably do them tomorrow, or maybe come in on saturday and do it, when no one is using them, depends on how long it takes.

Nah, it wasn't that. Trust me, I've spent hours researching this thing. There are probably a dozen different solutions to the problem and I tried most of them. Updates, deleting old updates, running the .exe file directly from the folder, running various files from cmd.exe with administrator privileges...

It's really quite fascinating how difficult it can be to fix simple problems, because Microsoft is trying to make everything so user-friendly.

[Imperius]

Kristov Kerensky, on 30 July 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

As Imperius already covered that, I'll just add that Russ already stated, MWO will not be upgraded for DX12 any time soon. The CryEngine 3 that MWO is running on HAS a DX12 update already put out by CryTek, there is ONE teeny tiny problem with that update however. It totally kills all DX9 functionality in the engine. That's a CryTek thing, NOT a DX12 thing, they did that with how they did their DX12 update.

Where did he state this? Or are you just adding it to a past statement from like 1.5yrs ago? Cause I've been tweeting him about it he hasn't said jack.

The statement back then was since DX 11 wasn't much of a gain they were not going to support DX 11 updates we are now at DX 12 which offers too much performance boosts to ignore.

Edited by Imperius, 30 July 2015 - 02:15 PM.