162 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Juodas Varnas, on 04 July 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

I mean, as a sort of a test, i took a 40 random players that voted for the Nova in the Medium mech scaling poll and only 1 out of the 40 players had an IS tag, everyone else was either Lone Wolf or Clan (majority was Clan)
When i looked at the Centurion's votes, most of them were Inner Sphere and Lone Wolves

The sample size wasn't large (because i'm lazy as f*ck), but the pattern is pretty obvious.

You are also assuming that these are clan loyalists rather than mercs.
Example, I'm in a group that floats around, currently we are Clan Wolf for the event. The Nova is the most egregious medium when it comes to bad scaling, I voted there, same with the Kit Fox, Catapult, and both IS 80 tonners.

Either way, he made an over-generalization to fit his agenda when there are more factors than simply Clans voting for clan mechs and IS for IS mechs.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 04 July 2015 - 11:05 AM.

[Carrioncrows]

WM Quicksilver, on 04 July 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

This is a huge assumption by you that is purely based on your disdain for Clan, so while it may not be baseless, it is based on a huge assumption that is quite wrong. If anything, people are voting for the mechs that are statistically/visibly bigger at least for the first couple mechs.

There is nothing assumed about it.

People have their own best interest at heart.

You think any of the guys from CJF, CW or any of the other clans are going to vote to re-scale the Treb?

Of course not. They are going to vote on the Nova because it's the ONLY 50 ton clan mech they have access to.

You think any of the IS guys are going to vote to make the Nova smaller and make clans just a wee bit better?

Ginger please....

The vote is Fudged, results are tainted and it's basically a dogfight of IS versus Clan on what mech is going to win out.

I am sure that there are like 20 people who voted for what they seriously thought was the mech that needed to be re-scaled. The rest voted for their own interests of IS or clan mech they wanted fixed.

Edit:
I voted - Kitfox (because oddly enough all IS lights are solid), Treb because it's mountain tall, Quickdraw because I hate every QDK I have and i want to love you, and the Banshee because I hope if we get to be as skinny as the Executioner it might feel like BT again. (oddly enough the awesome didn't win out, as fat and silly as it look I actually like the way it looks even though it plays horrible)

Edited by Carrioncrows, 04 July 2015 - 11:10 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrioncrows, on 04 July 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

There is nothing assumed about it.

People have their own best interest at heart.

You think any of the guys from CJF, CW or any of the other clans are going to vote to re-scale the Treb?

Of course not. They are going to vote on the Nova because it's the ONLY 50 ton clan mech they have access to.

You think any of the IS guys are going to vote to make the Nova smaller and make clans just a wee bit better?

Ginger please....

The vote is Fudged, results are tainted and it's basically a dogfight of IS versus Clan on what mech is going to win out.

I am sure that there are like 20 people who voted for what they seriously thought was the mech that needed to be re-scaled. The rest voted for their own interests of IS or clan mech they wanted fixed.

Edit:
I voted - Kitfox (because oddly enough all IS lights are solid), Treb because it's mountain tall, Quickdraw because I hate every QDK I have and i want to love you, and the Banshee because I hope if we get to be as skinny as the Executioner it might feel like BT again. (oddly enough the awesome didn't win out, as fat and silly as it look I actually like the way it looks even though it plays horrible)

That's again, assuming most of the votes are from some sort of loyalist units. Last I checked Mercs outnumber IS or Clan Loyalists.

What's that saying...something like 75% of all statistics are made up on the spot? Welcome to the 75% unless you got more than "common sense" as proof.

Are there people voting for their pet mechs? Duh. The number of people claiming the CN9 is worse off than then either the Treb or the Nova is truly laughable. But just how many Mercs do you REALLY believe have a vested interest in the Nova?

Also, with Clan Dropdecks, the SCR is still the preferred choice, more than worth the extra 5 tons.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 04 July 2015 - 11:13 AM.

[One Medic Army]

I voted Nova, Trebuchet, and Kintaro for Mediums. After looking at them in-game using the store tab.

I own exactly 4 clan mechs (3 crows and a HBR) outside of Wave3, and 78 IS mechs.

[Carrioncrows]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 July 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

That's again, assuming most of the votes are from some sort of loyalist units. Last I checked Mercs outnumber IS or Clan Loyalists.

What's that saying...something like 75% of all statistics are made up on the spot? Welcome to the 75% unless you got more than "common sense" as proof.

The point is there should be a IS poll and a Clan poll.

There are more than enough mechs that need "Adjusted" on both sides without having to go Thunderdome on making the Nova more usable or the Treb / cent more usable.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ozealot, on 04 July 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

I don't want to insult you in any way - but what did you expect? I mean you are totally right with your assumption, and I'm only speaking for myself here. I got a Nova, but also Cents and Vindicats - but... CW limitations. I am a die-hard Clan player, because I was introduced to BattleTech with MW2 and actually never got to know more about the IS until the GBL expansion when I first had to deal with them, not because of MWO-meta. Being honest with you - when I first saw the poll there where already like 500 votes done already so thinking about it I choose which would be the option 1) the most likely to happen and 2) to benefit my personal mechcollection, especially the part being used more and being usable in CW.





Why did this had to happen? I actually do agree with you.




But I still do dislike you due to you patting your own shoulder. You're just such a good lass, aren't you? Done with it.

Truly, I'm heartbroken. Does it make your life somehow more enjoyable to set yourself up with a "Nemesis", even if your chosen one could truly care less? SMH.

Have fun.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 04 July 2015 - 11:26 AM.

[XX Sulla XX]

They need to do the top 10 and that would fix most problems.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Carrioncrows, on 04 July 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

The point is there should be a IS poll and a Clan poll.

There are more than enough mechs that need "Adjusted" on both sides without having to go Thunderdome on making the Nova more usable or the Treb / cent more usable.

Or they could fix all the mechs that have issues, but alas they aren't, so this way is perfectly fine since the worst scaled are currently winning regardless of Clan or IS.

Side note, trying to do split poles would be somewhat pointless, especially given that the Clans only have one real bad scaled mech per weight class. Maybe their would be some contention with the assaults, but it would probably be in the Gargoyle's favor.

[Bishop Steiner]

XX Sulla XX, on 04 July 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

They need to do the top 10 and that would fix most problems.

Do you really think only 5 will get rescaled? It's like the Maps. Grab some primaries, get some good will by letting community choose, and if it is deemed worth the effort after, more will come.

Carrioncrows, on 04 July 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

The point is there should be a IS poll and a Clan poll.

There are more than enough mechs that need "Adjusted" on both sides without having to go Thunderdome on making the Nova more usable or the Treb / cent more usable.

Point is, if more people vote for a clan mech, then that is what the COMMUNITY as a whole has voted for.

But since the Awesome is the clear winner on the Assaults, and the lead heavies are ALL IS, that would seem to speak against your Clan Player Conspiracy.....as why would those same biased players who voted Nova vote for the Catapult and Awesome, too?

Except the common sense trait they ALL THREE have in common? Because they are each the most obvious in their weight class that needs rescaling.

Also, if there IS an example of player bias, it's pretty clearly on the IS part....that the SHD is outvoting the Treb? LOL.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 04 July 2015 - 12:26 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrioncrows, on 04 July 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

Edit:
I voted - Kitfox (because oddly enough all IS lights are solid), Treb because it's mountain tall, Quickdraw because I hate every QDK I have and i want to love you, and the Banshee because I hope if we get to be as skinny as the Executioner it might feel like BT again. (oddly enough the awesome didn't win out, as fat and silly as it look I actually like the way it looks even though it plays horrible)

So, in at least 2 out of 4 of your own votes you admit to personal bias instead of actual need? Ironic, yes? Especially the Banshee that has zero need gamewise to be touched (yes, looks is it)? Lol.

[RedDevil]

Twist a Centurion, then twist a Nova. One gets smaller the other stays the same.

[Juodas Varnas]

This is getting beyond ridiculous.

Alright.
I'm sure there are people that are voting purely based on their own biases and preferences.
I'm sure there are people that are voting based on what mechs need it the most and would improve the game itself.

Neither of the groups are inherently wrong and since it IS a ******* vote, let people vote for whatever the **** they want and let's stop arguing about people voting for the wrong thing.

[Alienized]

yesyes.
make the QKD smaller....
i simply play them BECAUSE its such an outlaw mech. and by far not terrible in performance, just too fragile with its desperate need of XL engines to make it usable.

also: make the fkin firestarter BIGGER. same with the spider. why? hitbox issues. it happened to the cent so it has to happen with those 2.


as for mediums: treb... yes it soo needs it.
blackjacks are fine as they are, didnt play the vindi so i cant really talk about it. as for poptarting its a great mech tho.


assaults: awesome, victor and highlander. all 3 have massive hitbox problems and mainly suck because they are such massive targets. not even all those structure and armor quirks made the highlander better. that speaks for itself.

[Deathlike]

Regarding the Vindicator.

It needs help.

While I'm kinda unsure that it needs rescaling, but it gets the least love, and has been considered the worst medium (at least for the IS - Clans lean towards voting Nova for obvious reasons) in the game since day 1.

It doesn't even have a torso twist quirk!


Still, I think the Trebuchet should be #1 (it gets mistaken for a Highlander over long distances), but there's a whole host of Mediums that need it.

Fortunately, the BJ is perfectly sized...

Edited by Deathlike, 04 July 2015 - 12:46 PM.

[Deimir]

One Medic Army, on 03 July 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

[edit] Stupid autocorrect. Mechs don't have "hotboxes"

Speak for yourself.

[Carrioncrows]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 July 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

So, in at least 2 out of 4 of your own votes you admit to personal bias instead of actual need? Ironic, yes? Especially the Banshee that has zero need gamewise to be touched (yes, looks is it)? Lol.

Of course. I am the hitbox guy, not the rescale guy.

If asked I would say the Nova doesn't need a re-scaling. Firepower offsets it's goofyness. Even you admitted to having a blast and doing well in it.

And that's just the thing. I own the nova, but i will rarely if ever play the nova. And at this point I can make the clans better and vote nova, or I can try and bring a mech I "WILL" use up to manageable levels....

hmmm..

It all comes down to personal opinion and bias.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 04 July 2015 - 12:59 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Reposting this from Reddit, someone did a pixel area comparison of various mechs (front+side, front only, and tweaked):

https://www.reddit.c...ia_pixel_count/

Funny thing? The grasshopper shows up on each chart as one of the most undersized mechs from a profile perspective. Tall and lanky means lots of empty space to hit instead.

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrioncrows, on 04 July 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

Of course. I am the hitbox guy, not the rescale guy.

If asked I would say the Nova doesn't need a re-scaling. Firepower offsets it's goofyness. Even you admitted to having a blast and doing well in it.

And that's just the thing. I own the nova, but i will rarely if ever play the nova. And at this point I can make the clans better and vote nova, or I can try and bring a mech I "WILL" use up to manageable levels....

hmmm..

It all comes down to personal opinion and bias.

because I run Awesomes, Catapults and KitFoxes soooooo often.

And those same biased dirty Clanners who are pushing the Clan agenda on the Nova apparently also are voting for those dirty clan...:AWesomes, Quickdraws and Catapults?

Seeing the flaw in your theory yet, dude? If it were as you imagine we'd be seeing the Mad Dog and Warhawk (possibly Gargles, but doubtful) getting all the rescale votes. Yet no Clan Assault or Heavy are even in the running.

Yes, some people are voting with their heart, not their heads. But no, the leading candidates in every category are shockingly enough.....the right ones.

And no, the Nova does not have enough sustainable firepower to compensate for pretty much literally the worst hitboxes in the game. Not that there is a whole lot that can be done about that part without a redesign.

Not sure why it's so hard to believe that...the Nova just really needs to be rescaled. It's only as wide as a Direwolf and all. With "pickyourpoison" Hitboxes that only are exacerbated by the size...since you can pretty much choose whichever component you want, from any angle.

The "meta influenced" choice I can see is the Shadowhawk..... since TBH, it's height has had ZERO impact on it's in game durability and actually make the shoulder mounts more useful for peeking. In this current overquirked game, it needs to be upquirked (or better yet in the next balance pass, quirks in general will get significantly reduced) but that it or the Centy need rescaling more than the Trebbie? THAT is nonsense.

[The Mech behind you]

One Medic Army, on 04 July 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

Funny thing? The grasshopper shows up on each chart as one of the most undersized mechs from a profile perspective. Tall and lanky means lots of empty space to hit instead.

Well, actually I don't get why the Grasshopper is such a topic. Yeah it's tall but judging from fights with the GHR it doesn't have a disadvantage from its size when it comes to getting cored. Being tall isn't as bad as being wide. Almost all mechs wich have the most votes right now are wide not tall. Seems mechwarriors struggle to aim vertically. Actually yes they do. We learned that already from the jumpsniping issue.

The Awesome is rather short compared to other assaults but its width is making it the number one mech crying for a rescale. Maybe the whole rescaling campain started because of the Awesome.

[IraqiWalker]

oldradagast, on 04 July 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

Centurions have not been super-zombies or amazingly tough since the Clans came out and the game shifted to high pin-point alphas. Well,that and they changed the Centurion hitboxes over a year ago, making them less zombie anyway.

Truthfully, I rarely see anyone even playing them anymore, so they can't be that relevant in today's game.

They are too large, along with many other mechs, sadly.

Actually, that's not when they stopped being good zombie mechs. It's when their destroyed arm hitboxes were fixed. See the old destroyed arm had some cables, and debris dangling down, that still allowed them to shield the STs from most hits. Meaning that most of the time, the Centy was getting an 80% reduction in damage. When they shrunk the hitbox for the wrecked arm, the STs became easier to hit when the mech torso twists after losing an arm.

THAT is when they stopped being able to tank an orbital bombardment's worth of damage.

Wildstreak, on 04 July 2015 - 07:35 AM, said:

No you can only choose one in each weight class at least when I voted just now.

The buttons are boxes, not circles. That means you can put multiple checks. If you want, you could try re-voting.