152 replies to this topic

[Candrill]

I think you are talking about the 5S. At any rate having one or two mechs that are "as good as a Clan Mech" does not make much of a difference

[demoyn]

Hmm... I see a thread full of Davion posting about how they use too many LRMs, can't use voice chat effectively, and don't understand how to use cover while advancing towards a clan target. Then I see how they were dead last in the Tukkayid statistics. I'm trying to piece this information together to form some sort of amazing insight, but it's just not coming to me...

[demoyn]

Candrill, on 09 July 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

I think you are talking about the 5S. At any rate having one or two mechs that are "as good as a Clan Mech" does not make much of a difference

The KGC-000, STK-4N, Misery, TDR-9SE, QKD-5K, WVR-6k, FS9-S, RVN-2X, SHD-2K, Grid Iron, TDR-9S, JM6-S, TDR-5SS, FS9-A, DRG-1N, BNC-3E, and Huginn are all just as good as (or in some cases better than) clan mechs. It's not PGI's fault that people drop with crappy mechs and crappy builds in CW.

Edited by demoyn, 09 July 2015 - 06:52 PM.

[YourSaviorLegion]

Lol I bought a Thunder Bolt and piloted it in a few pub matches and got 7 kills with it in one match, 7! The stupid thing hardly overheats so it can shoot lasers for days and yet the "CLANS ARE OP!" crap persists. The Clan Mechs aren't OP but the pilots certainly are compared to most IS pilots. Clan mechs kind of blow comparative if I were to shoot 7 medium pulse lasers on a Clan Mech it would overheat, yet the T-bolt can do it 3-4 times. Plus our laser duration is terrible.

demoyn, on 09 July 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

The KGC-000, STK-4N, Misery, TDR-9SE, QKD-5K, WVR-6k, FS9-S, RVN-2X, SHD-2K, Grid Iron, TDR-9S, JM6-S, TDR-5SS, FS9-A, DRG-1N, BNC-3E, and Huginn are all just as good (or in some cases better) than clan mechs. It's not PGI's fault that people drop with crappy mechs and crappy builds in CW.

Exactly all I did was follow what the quirk lists says the mech is good at and I roflstomp everything in it, like that freaking Dragon they can spam dual A/C 5s...

[TheSilken]

Honestly the drop deck tonnage is not the issue. The issue is that the mercs sway heavily to one side or the other causing huge and lopsided gains for whatever side they happen to flock to.

[Celtic Warrior]

Candrill, on 09 July 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

I think you are talking about the 5S. At any rate having one or two mechs that are "as good as a Clan Mech" does not make much of a difference

You should ask PGI if you could go through cadet training again maybe it will open your eyes a little. There are many good IS mechs many of which I own, I own more IS mechs then clan mechs. Laser duration on the clan laser are a joke it spreads out the damage much more then the IS lasers.

[Leiska]

You know what, guys? Clan tech is better, but not by as much as some of you think. The issue is horrible, horrible players and no amount of drop tonnage is going to save those poor people. You could give IS pugs 400 ton decks and they'd still lose surprisingly often because the players are so bad it's difficult for me to comprehend it:



See how four guys couldn't get even 200 damage? This game wasn't even as bad as the previous one where we had 5 (IIRC) sub 200s + one sub 100 damage player not counting disconnects. Mr. Overlord here was a part of both failure clubs, BTW, so the derp factor seems to be a long lasting one.

YourSaviorLegion, on 09 July 2015 - 02:39 PM, said:

Lol I bought a Thunder Bolt and piloted it in a few pub matches and got 7 kills with it in one match, 7! The stupid thing hardly overheats so it can shoot lasers for days and yet the "CLANS ARE OP!" crap persists. The Clan Mechs aren't OP but the pilots certainly are compared to most IS pilots. Clan mechs kind of blow comparative if I were to shoot 7 medium pulse lasers on a Clan Mech it would overheat, yet the T-bolt can do it 3-4 times. Plus our laser duration is terrible.

Of course you'll overheat firing 7 cMPLs because there's ghost heat. Fire 6 instead. It deals more damage than 7 IS MPLs and by far outranges it unless you're in a TDR-5SS. The 5SS is a fantastic mech and outperforms the most common clan laser vomit and gauss vomit builds in certain situations, but you're making false comparisons here.

Edited by Leiska, 09 July 2015 - 07:26 PM.

[Kwea]

SeventhSL, on 08 July 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

The clan stuff does look good on paper but if you sit down and do some proper calculations you will be shocked. If I told you that an IS ERLL on a TDR5SS out ranges (about 198m more) and out brawls the C-ERLL and is just better in every way even after you use that spare ton on a clan double heat sink you simply wouldn't believe me. All this without factoring in the IS ghost heat advantage boating the weapon and the negative perks on some clan omni pods.

Anyway do the math. It will blow your mind.

Read the notes. IS ERLL range is capped. If it weren't you'd be right, but you aren't.

[Kwea]

demoyn, on 09 July 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

The KGC-000, STK-4N, Misery, TDR-9SE, QKD-5K, WVR-6k, FS9-S, RVN-2X, SHD-2K, Grid Iron, TDR-9S, JM6-S, TDR-5SS, FS9-A, DRG-1N, BNC-3E, and Huginn are all just as good as (or in some cases better than) clan mechs. It's not PGI's fault that people drop with crappy mechs and crappy builds in CW.

The 9s is horrible now, and most of the other mechs listed have no where near the clan range advantage. That being said, we have some really good mechs, most of them in that list, and on maps that allow closing to our effective range we can do almost as good as our clan counterparts.

It takes less skill on larger maps to run a clan mech and do absurd damage than it takes to do even close to it in an IS mech. So IF we close, IF we manage to get in range, we are ALMOST as good as clan mechs. Until you look at survivability and mobility.

[Leiska]

Kwea, on 09 July 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

Read the notes. IS ERLL range is capped. If it weren't you'd be right, but you aren't.

What notes? I can't find any mention of any range caps anywhere.

[SeventhSL]

Kwea, on 09 July 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

Read the notes. IS ERLL range is capped. If it weren't you'd be right, but you aren't.

Notes??? Shame you didn't give the cap distance. Can you please provide a link?

I run 3xCERLL + Range module and targeting computer mk1. I get damaged by TDR at ranges Well beyond what I can damage them at and out damaged beyond about 900m. If there is supposed to be a cap it is either to high (so my statements stand correct) or it is not in force in which case I'll report a bug and get the TDR put back to where it should be.

Really hopeing you can provide a link. Please please please.

Edited by SeventhSL, 09 July 2015 - 08:40 PM.

[Koshirou]

SeventhSL, on 09 July 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

Notes??? Shame you didn't give the cap distance. Can you please provide a link?

http://mwomercs.com/...e-still-bugged/

Quote

I run 3xCERLL + Range module and targeting computer mk1. I get damaged by TDR at ranges Well beyond what I can damage them at

No, you don't. The maximum damaging range of even a stock cERLL without any modules is 1480m. The maximum damaging range of an IS ERLL is 1500m. (The basic range difference of a 5SS-Mounted ERLL compared to a cERLL is 103m without modules. Doubtful if that, under considerations of damage dropoff, even compensates for the cERLL's higher basic damage.)

[SeventhSL]

Thanks for the link Koshirou. As it suggested I jumped into my TDR-5SS (without range module, max range 1687.5m), stood on the peak as K7 and damaged the Jenner in I5 with an IS-ERLL. Did the same thing with my HBR (with range module and Targeting computer mk1, max range 1661.3m) and couldn't damage the Jenner from the same spot with the C-ERLL.

Ummmm.... What can I say? If there was a cap there isn't now. I'm sure others can confirm this as well. So now for the Math. Basic rounding applied.

Basic data from http://mwo.smurfy-net
Thunder bolt TDR-5SS quirk: Energy Range 25%
IS-ERLL: Range = 675, Max Range = 1350, Damage = 9
C-ERLL: Range = 740, Max Range = 1480,Damage = 11

Calculations:
IS-ERLL Range on TDR-5SS = 675 x 1.25 = 843.7
IS-ERLL Max Range on TDR-5SS = 1350 x 1.25 = 1687.5
IS-ERLL exceeds C-ERLL by 1687.5 - 1480 = 207.5

IS-ERLL damage at 900 = 9 x (1 - ((900 - 843.7) / (1687.5 - 843.7))) = 8.4
IS-ERLL damage at 1000 = 9 x (1 - ((1000 - 843.7) / (1687.7 - 843.7))) = 7.3
C-ERLL damage at 900 = 11 x (1 - ((900 - 740) / (1480 - 740))) = 8.6
C-ERLL damage at 1000 = 11 x (1 - ((1000 - 740) / (1480 - 740))) = 7.1

So Koshirou yes, yes I did. Proven with math and in game testing. Didn't even need to add the range model to the TDR-5SS. If you can find a fault that changes the outcome and makes the C-ERLL superior I'm all ears but I certainly can't see it.

Edit: fixed a calculation error found by Koshirou with C-ERLL damage at 1000. Changed to 7.1.

Edited by SeventhSL, 12 July 2015 - 05:19 PM.

[GER Greensix]

Hello,

imao i think there is a balancing problem of the teams itself. At the moment it's the same situation like some months before for the Clans. You remember ? There clan territory was so small, i need a lens .

Now TOP (you know most of them also) units which are playing competitive style are mostly on Clan side. Actually the IS has a problem. Only some loyalist units but mostly freetime clans fight now against competitive clans ! This are no fights this are often massacres .

Maybe a limitation of "jumping" sides for the TOP 10 Clans would be helpful, so that always is a balance between the IS : Clan units. So each side has near the same number of TOP clans.

But in my opinion as IS pilot at the moment the Clans have some very effective chassis for CW like HBR, SCR, TBR, EBJ.... At the moment i don't understand what Clans want with a DW on the battlefield. So i prefer also a small increase of tonnage for IS.

I wait really for a economy aspect of Community Warfare (limit of usable mechs for planetary attacks, reproducing mechs depends from planets, factory, money of units ... ).

EOF

[demoyn]

Kwea, on 09 July 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

The 9s is horrible now, and most of the other mechs listed have no where near the clan range advantage. That being said, we have some really good mechs, most of them in that list, and on maps that allow closing to our effective range we can do almost as good as our clan counterparts.

It takes less skill on larger maps to run a clan mech and do absurd damage than it takes to do even close to it in an IS mech. So IF we close, IF we manage to get in range, we are ALMOST as good as clan mechs. Until you look at survivability and mobility.

The TDR-9S isn't horrible, it's just not as effective as the TDR-9SE. There's a huge difference.

It doesn't really take much skill to drop below cover and move into range of your weapons before trading fire. Once you close within that range you are FAR superior to clan mechs because you can fire more than twice without overheating. I realize that you're Davion, so your entire faction put together has right at zero measurable skill, but the rest of us have very little problem with basics like these.

Edited by demoyn, 10 July 2015 - 08:53 AM.

[Revis Volek]

GotitN4U, on 06 July 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

Wait wasn`t it stated by Russ the reason the IS lost the 10 ton was because less that 15% of the people went over 240 tons. Maybe someone on can remeber that tweet or thread.

If true Blame your fellow IS members of wasting tons

He did Tweet it....just check out his twitter and you can find it.

Its a ways down by now im sure....https://twitter.com/russ_bullock

[Koshirou]

SeventhSL, on 10 July 2015 - 02:05 AM, said:

Ummmm.... What can I say? If there was a cap there isn't now. I'm sure others can confirm this as well.

I have not tested this recently. If it was fixed, it was either in one of the very last patches (since it was not in the patch notes archive) or it was not announced, in which case the argument indeed no longer applies.

Quote

C-ERLL damage at 1000 = 11 x (1 - ((1000 - 740) / (1480 - 740))) = 5.8

EDIT: That is a miscalculation. According to my own way of calculating this, and according to your formula as well, the actual value is ~7.1 - so in other words, the 5SS range buff does compensate for the higher base damage, granted, but not dramatically so.

[Crockdaddy]

The IS range cap was removed several patches ago. I'd provide the link but a far easier demonstration would be to run into NS on Boreal and do some snipe trading with us. You can let me know first hand how my ERLL love feels at over 1500 meters.

[VorpalAnvil]

Candrill, on 08 July 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

Face it, the clan mechs are superior. Getting hit at 1088m by a CLPL, 1500m by a CERLL? I mean c'mon. ECM mechs everywhere, range WAY over the IS mechs, XL engines that act like STD engines. Hell, by the time we get near the Clanners we are so chewed up by the Direct Fire weapons (without being able to effectively return fire, tons of fun by the way) that the brawl is pretty much one sided. I don't know how to fix it, but there is a serious balance issue.

Spare me the "we are just better pilots/Units" and the "Well, the Lore says" arguments.....

We are just better pilots and the Lore says so.

[VorpalAnvil]

LOADED, on 06 July 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

upcoming changes

July 21th
-IS Dropdeck changed from 240 to 280 tons.
-Ghostheat for IS Large and ER Large Laser removed

July 30th
-Timberwolf overall speed lowered to 74KPH
-IS AC velocity changed to 250%

August 7th
-IS autocannons maximum range increased by 200%
-IS Small, Small Pulse, Medium, Medium Pulse maximum range removed.

August 21th
- IS Ammo for SRM/LRM/Ballistics set to infinite
- Timberwolf and Stormcrow are now only allowed to fire one energyweapon at a time.
- Direwolf topspeed lowered to 32KPH

Johnny Z has this blown up on a giant poster and faps furiously to it all day every day.