83 replies to this topic

[Throat Punch]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 July 2015 - 05:30 AM, said:

2x LRM 15 (4 tons ammo)
2x Medium lasers
1x AC20(4 tons ammo)

Max armor
16x Dubs


Yeah... No.

Fire support is normally behind the front line and this universe has plenty of Assault Missile boats.

The Warhawk A, while not a pure "missile boat" was considered a long range "support" mechs with an LRM 15 (as much as a clan mech could be considered support when battles came down to zellbrigen in a lot of cases). Just because a mech is an assault class doesn't always mean it was a front line laser/missile/AC sponge.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 July 2015 - 05:37 AM, said:

well, if you are gonna sit in the back lobbing, a CPLT would work just as well, while freeing up an Assault Slot to actually assault.

Don't mind mixed builds and an Atlas with LRMs, but it's a poor choice for a "lrmboat".

It always served me well when I had a scout that knows his business. and Teammates that talked to the team, when in trouble.

Bishop Steiner, on 06 July 2015 - 05:39 AM, said:

terrible weapon synergy. and LRM10s shoudl only be run by mechs with heavy quirks for them. They are not as efficient as 20s, but I'd take a single lrm15 with artemis over 2 lrm10.

2 10s cycle faster than a 15 or 20 rack... so a bit more volume of throw weight. I see your point but I don't find any real fault with his choice.

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 July 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

It always served me well when I had a scout that knows his business. and Teammates that talked to the team, when in trouble.


2 10s cycle faster than a 15 or 20 rack... so a bit more volume of throw weight. I see your point but I don't find any real fault with his choice.

First problem is that anytime you have to rely on someone else for your effectiveness, unless you play as part of a premade, you are already starting behind the 8ball.

Second, if one is in a premade, I'd rather see that Atlas kitted out to take the fight to the enemy, and let a teammate run a much more effective LRMboat like a HBK-4J. and if anything hold locks for him whilst brawling.

For solo dropping? Never ever run a build that requires team coordination.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 06 July 2015 - 05:54 AM.

[Sarlic]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 July 2015 - 05:13 AM, said:

but should always be replaced with an aLRM15, instead. Save 2 tons, some heat, reload time and do just as much useful damage, if not more. LRM20 is just a waste.

Not really. I have tried the LRM 15 mutliple times. There's something odd with it. I found it different. I found the LRM20 more valueable instead of the LRM15. I certainly do less damage with that 15's. The extra salvo of 5 tube versus 10 is not worth it while you can only launch 10 at the time anyway.

10 + 5 or 10 + 10. I would go with 10+10 and give that 2 ton up for that extra second of damage / supressing fire...any second can help me out.

But hey that's my opinion.

Edited by Sarlic, 06 July 2015 - 05:58 AM.

[Ultimax]

I get that people want to have some weapon to contribute on the way to the party.

The issue with these kinds of builds though, is that

• at long range your build is no more powerful than something a medium mech could bring (a dedicated LRM medium)
  
• at close range your build is no more powerful than something a medium mech could bring (a dedicated brawl medium)

Really though my pet peeve isn't so much what other people put on their mechs, as long as other players don't have to carry you - whatever.

My pet peeve is when the whole freaking team is moving, and pushing, and working an angle to control terrain and there is that one Atlas on your team just standing there firing LRMs.



If I can move while firing Gauss + Lasers or move and fire UACs then ffs, please move while firing your LRMs.

[McMatt]

Chuddox, on 06 July 2015 - 04:33 AM, said:

When I see an Atlas pilot say "I have tons of LRMs" and mean it...I die a little inside, cause I know Jesus and Santa Claus both just had to kill puppy.

I feel you ... And at the end of the battle, you see a lone Atlas (his team already dead in the battle), somewhere back, back in cover, getting chopped by Locus and Raven ...

[Joseph Mallan]

Mors Draco, on 06 July 2015 - 05:39 AM, said:

The Warhawk A, while not a pure "missile boat" was considered a long range "support" mechs with an LRM 15 (as much as a clan mech could be considered support when battles came down to zellbrigen in a lot of cases). Just because a mech is an assault class doesn't always mean it was a front line laser/missile/AC sponge.

Yes and the Clans have the all time winner Missile Boat with the Kraken. 8 LRM 15s! Wanna talk about raining on a parade!

[Escef]

Chuddox, on 06 July 2015 - 05:26 AM, said:

100 tons of LRM boat is a waste no matter which way you want to try to slice it. It hurts your team by keeping all that armor tonnage in the rear of the group, and is the utmost display of either A: inexperience, B: bad decision making or C: both.

To be perfectly blunt, the only weight class with much business being an LRM boat in this game is assault. Lights don't really have the tonnage for it, mediums should be skirmisher/strikers and/or pulling maneuver support, and heavies are your main line. Assaults tend to be slow, which is not a detriment to most LRM boats, with enough tonnage to carry good sized launchers, enough heat sinks to use them, enough ammo to last the match, and a couple close in support weapons if things go badly (the classic quad ML backing up LRMs works great).

LRMs in general are not ideal weapons, and based upon map, opponents, and team support can be great or just this side of useless.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 July 2015 - 05:48 AM, said:

First problem is that anytime you have to rely on someone else for your effectiveness, unless you play as part of a premade, you are already starting behind the 8ball.

Second, if one is in a premade, I'd rather see that Atlas kitted out to take the fight to the enemy, and let a teammate run a much more effective LRMboat like a HBK-4J. and if anything hold locks for him whilst brawling.

For solo dropping? Never ever run a build that requires team coordination.

This right here is a sad sad statement for a team oriented game. How selfish is the player base here?

[Sarlic]

Quote

For solo dropping? Never ever run a build that requires team coordination.

And this is why we have a terrible game population. Because nobody think about each other.

Teamwork is obsoleted.

Edited by Sarlic, 06 July 2015 - 06:10 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 July 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

Yes and the Clans have the all time winner Missile Boat with the Kraken. 8 LRM 15s! Wanna talk about raining on a parade!

You woulda really loved my Annihilator Refit.... only half the tubes, but they were eLRM15s. 44 hex range. Man that was some fun experimental tech.

For standard rules I swapped to 6 ATM12s, but it wasn't the same.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 06 July 2015 - 06:12 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 July 2015 - 06:09 AM, said:

This right here is a sad sad statement for a team oriented game. How selfish is the player base here?

While I can't deny the truth of your statement, have ya played the same game I am? The greater majority of players in Solo Queue are your typical CoD solo rambo heroes man. Sorry to harsh yer mood, brah.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 July 2015 - 06:14 AM, said:

While I can't deny the truth of your statement, have ya played the same game I am? The greater majority of players in Solo Queue are your typical CoD solo rambo heroes man. Sorry to harsh yer mood, brah.

no no you are not harshing me. I accept that the majority of players here wouldn't know team work from asphalt!

[Bishop Steiner]

Sarlic, on 06 July 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

[/b]

And this is why we have a terrible game population. Because nobody think about each other.

Teamwork is obsoleted.

Or maybe it's an evolutionary mechanism developed because we have a terrible population. Just like every other online game, when it comes to PUGs and willingness to actually help each other. We live in the selfie stick waving Church of Epeen era, baby. Better get used to it.

I can't tell you the number of times I brought NARCs, had LRM mechs on my team...and they wouldn't listen to the target designations. and I'm a lousy Light Fighter...but I'm a hell of a NARC'r.

[Sarlic]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 July 2015 - 06:14 AM, said:

While I can't deny the truth of your statement, have ya played the same game I am? The greater majority of players in Solo Queue are your typical CoD solo rambo heroes man. Sorry to harsh yer mood, brah.

You have a point.

But the reward system isn't good either. The 12 full random group of bright shiners who just slam two mouse button because of their two left hands isn't helping in anyway.

Not to mention the poor situational awareness.

Well i agree the solo que is bad, but the mechanic's to throw some magic at teamwork is bad as well.

Solution? Don't look at me. I think the revamp of a reward system is needed. Then again, nobody bothered to use VOIP when it got added anyway...

[Joseph Mallan]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 July 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

You woulda really loved my Annihilator Refit.... only half the tubes, but they were eLRM15s. 44 hex range. Man that was some fun experimental tech.

For standard rules I swapped to 6 ATM12s, but it wasn't the same.

Dude ATMs

Bishop Steiner, on 06 July 2015 - 06:16 AM, said:

Or maybe it's an evolutionary mechanism developed because we have a terrible population. Just like every other online game, when it comes to PUGs and willingness to actually help each other. We live in the selfie stick waving Church of Epeen era, baby. Better get used to it.

I can't tell you the number of times I brought NARCs, had LRM mechs on my team...and they wouldn't listen to the target designations. and I'm a lousy Light Fighter...but I'm a hell of a NARC'r.

I will go to my grave fighting against it Bish.

Sarlic, on 06 July 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

You have a point.

But the reward system isn't good either. The 12 full random group of bright shiners who just slam two mouse button because of their two left hands isn't helping in anyway.

Not to mention the poor situational awareness.

Well i agree the solo que is bad, but the mechanic's to throw some magic at teamwork is bad as well.

Solution? Don't look at me. I think the revamp of a reward system is needed. Then again, nobody bothered to use VOIP when it got added anyway...

The solution is nie impossible. It requires thinking about the group as a whole and not ME ME ME ME!

[Bishop Steiner]

Sarlic, on 06 July 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

You have a point.

But the reward system isn't good either. The 12 full random group of bright shiners who just slam two mouse button because of their two left hands isn't helping in anyway.

Not to mention the poor situational awareness.

Well i agree the solo que is bad, but the mechanic's to throw some magic at teamwork is bad as well.

Solution? Don't look at me. I think the revamp of a reward system is needed. Then again, nobody bothered to use VOIP when it got added anyway...

Yup.

You can lead a horse to water, but......?

End of the day, in my experience? Most solo players don't want to coordinate. They want this to be Unreal Tournament in Mechs, where they can run around grab some glory and yell "HEADSHOT!!!!!".

And the people that tell you to just take the lead, and the PUGs will follow? Probably buy a ton of selfhelp books and listen to Dr Oz, too. Because lemme tell you, 99% of the time, you can butter them up, lay it out so a child could understand, and still most of the people you drop with will ignore you and do their thing, without comment..until they die. THEN they will chat rage at the team for leaving them hanging.

I'd love it no tot be so. But can only comment on the game I have played for 3 years and 20k+ matches. And what I have seen? largely ain't been pretty.

Joseph Mallan, on 06 July 2015 - 06:21 AM, said:

I will go to my grave fighting against it Bish.

I have a feeling, you have already gone to the grave many times, fighting it. LOL.

[Water Bear]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 July 2015 - 05:39 AM, said:

terrible weapon synergy. and LRM10s shoudl only be run by mechs with heavy quirks for them. They are not as efficient as 20s, but I'd take a single lrm15 with artemis over 2 lrm10.

Perhaps a nitpick, but I'm confused about the LRM math here. IIRC LRM 10's weigh 5 tons and 20's weigh 10, so they are the same in terms of tonnage efficiency (perhaps not in crits, I don't know). In fact the LRM 15 does not weigh 2 tons less than a 20, it weighs 3 tons less (LRM 15 is 7 tons). The LRM 5 at 2 tons is the most efficient launcher in the game, ton per missile, and the LRM 15 is more efficient ton per missile than the 10 or 20.

Escef, on 06 July 2015 - 06:08 AM, said:

To be perfectly blunt, the only weight class with much business being an LRM boat in this game is assault. Lights don't really have the tonnage for it, mediums should be skirmisher/strikers and/or pulling maneuver support, and heavies are your main line. Assaults tend to be slow, which is not a detriment to most LRM boats, with enough tonnage to carry good sized launchers, enough heat sinks to use them, enough ammo to last the match, and a couple close in support weapons if things go badly (the classic quad ML backing up LRMs works great).

The Hunchback and Trebuchet disagree with you. The Trebuchet has something like 40% cool down quirks to LRM 15s without modules and the HBK throws double 10s incredibly fast. Given that I have something like 1800 rounds of ammo on the Treb and it has cooldown quirks giving it the DPS of 4 LRM 15s, I've completely stopped running my -8R Awesome which actually does carry 4 LRM 15's. It doesn't have appreciably more ammo (something like 2100-2200 rounds), is at least 30 tons heavier, is much slower, can't jump, and it's a freaking Awesome. Torso destruction errday.

Anyway some of these LRM Atlas builds are interesting. Putting something like a 4x5 loudout on the reward Atlas suddenly makes some sense to me. Too many times (especially in the current state of affairs where everyone's shooting at 5-700 meters) have I been stranded with 270 meter weapons on something too big and too valuable to the team to not be shooting.

Edited by Water Bear, 06 July 2015 - 06:37 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 July 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

I have a feeling, you have already gone to the grave many times, fighting it. LOL.

[mogs01gt]

Escef, on 06 July 2015 - 06:08 AM, said:

To be perfectly blunt, the only weight class with much business being an LRM boat in this game is assault.

That only seems true in MWO due to poor map design, poor lance concepts and spawn locations. Having 100ct armor is useless when you are behind structures. The team needs that armor!

Edited by mogs01gt, 06 July 2015 - 06:41 AM.