945 replies to this topic

[nehebkau]

If you lower BAP range as the same time as ECM range, its all good -- you could even lower ECM range more.

Just one thing: Aside from weight, there is no drawback from having ECM or BAP on your mech and there really should be. BAP is active probing -- it should have the penalty of making you more visible from farther away (think of BAP as shouting as opposed to whispering) or giving opponents a faster lock-on to the BAP mech. ECM, should have an effect of lowering the radar range of a mech that has it equipped (or increase lock-on time) -- all that radar scrambling should affect the ECM mech's systems and ECM mech's are, after all, trying to be stealthy.

Edited by nehebkau, 19 July 2015 - 04:32 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

oldradagast, on 19 July 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

Between ECM and Radar Derp, somewhere the game morphed into "hide behind a rock and snipe people Online." A lame situation, and one that needs addressing.

Uh... Snipers snipe and brawlers brawl. There is nothing un-MechWarrior like or broken about sniper mechs; saying that their sniping needs to be addressed like flaw in the game is ridiculous.

[Sable]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 19 July 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

Uh... Snipers snipe and brawlers brawl. There is nothing un-MechWarrior like or broken about sniper mechs; saying that their sniping needs to be addressed like flaw in the game is ridiculous.

He was referring to how everyone snipes all the time. So yes i would agree that it needs to be addressed as well.

[Prezimonto]

About time!

It's still not enough, though. ECM should, AT MOST, provide the current cover for the mech it's equipped to or have a short radius proportional to the carrier's speed (faster = smaller).

I may have to patch and try the game once once this goes into effect.

[SharpCookie]

Been waiting years for changes to come, and it is good to finally see attention being given to the stealth bubble and anti missile lock device.

With that said, the magic bubble range reduction to 60m sounds like a decent place to start changes, but I would rather see a more comprehensive overhaul of the way ECM affects target acquisition and missile locks. This would require changes to ECM, LRMs, SSRMs, and is much more complex than just simply nerfing the bubble range.

I'm against reducing BAP range if ECM current properties remain unchanged.

Like someone else mentioned, it's ridiculous that Tag does nothing against ECM inside the bubble due to [# of ECM > # of BAP]. If you have LOS and have Tag on the a target, then target acquisition and missile lock should be possible. Think laser guided missiles...

Edited by SharpCookie, 19 July 2015 - 09:27 PM.

[Mystere]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 19 July 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

Uh... Snipers snipe and brawlers brawl. There is nothing un-MechWarrior like or broken about sniper mechs; saying that their sniping needs to be addressed like flaw in the game is ridiculous.

This is my cure for snipers:



<maniacal >

Edited by Mystere, 19 July 2015 - 09:48 PM.

[Old Mechdonald]

it's a wonderful idea... I have been begging for this since the beginning of ECM. It is loooooooooooooooooong over due....and perhaps is finally here. Thank you PGI...please do it!

[Radiant Mass]

While indeed a much needed change, the core mechanics must change.

ECM must be changed from a radar stealth field, information and guided missile denial system to an information denial system and guided missile counter measure.

This means ECM should no longer make the user and those around them incapable of being targeted. Instead ECM will deny those who are targeting the user and those within the 180m bubble from transmitting their location information as well as an increased time to gather Target Information(Paper Doll data as well as missile lock on times.

The systems that denied or bypassed ECM are to be changed back. UAV, NARC, TAG, and Beagle Active Probe will no longer disable and or bypass ECM. The user with that equipment will be the only one benefiting from the increased data reception, but will be unable to transmit it.

BAP will instead allow the user who has it installed to detect if there is an ECM user near by. This means those who do not have BAP installed will not receive the "Low Signal" warning.

PPCs and another ECM however will still be capable to disrupting an enemy ECM.

ECM should also change how missiles behave. Instead of denying a lock on to LRMs and SSRMs, ECM will disable LRM and SRM ARTERMIS IV equipped enhancements turning them in to standard LRMS and SRMs. Standard LRMs and SSRMs will remain the same, but the moment they enter the ECM field their flight pattern will be scrambled and become erratic,similarly to how they behaved in Beta, leading to an increase to missile spread or even a possible miss on some missiles.

[Gremlich Johns]

bad arcade kitty, on 15 July 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

are you serious? you ruin the best tactical feature of ecm due to a lot of forum whining from the vocal minority

i just dunno... i am deeply disappointed in you

They are getting rid of the Cloak, which is a great thing. Paul's point about ECM not being intended to cover a whole force is spot on. Scouts should be the only ones using ECM anyway. Of course, we do not have scouts in MW:O. And seismic sensor for everyone? Baloney. Again, scouts would benefit from this device.

[Radiant Mass]

Gremlich Johns, on 20 July 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

And seismic sensor for everyone? Baloney.

A feature that the Beagle Active Probe granted to your mech´s standard sensor set.

[KursedVixen]

CapperDeluxe, on 15 July 2015 - 03:06 PM, said:

Why not just take out the ability to shield friendlies from GECM, then add Angel ECM as separate equipment? I just don't get it.

because you have to understand it's not just guardian ecm it's also clan ecm. So what will clan get the watchdog CEWS?

Marcs Birger, on 20 July 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

A feature that the Beagle Active Probe granted to your mech´s standard sensor set.

So if the active probe and beagle are a seprate Sensor array why do we still have these silly modules that do 1/3(or less) of what the beagle does?


Btw thank you marcs for bringing that up... i didn't know the active probe was a seprate sensor computer that did all of that.

Edited by KursedVixen, 20 July 2015 - 03:57 PM.

[HammerMaster]

Marcs Birger, on 20 July 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

While indeed a much needed change, the core mechanics must change.

ECM must be changed from a radar stealth field, information and guided missile denial system to an information denial system and guided missile counter measure.

This means ECM should no longer make the user and those around them incapable of being targeted. Instead ECM will deny those who are targeting the user and those within the 180m bubble from transmitting their location information as well as an increased time to gather Target Information(Paper Doll data as well as missile lock on times.

The systems that denied or bypassed ECM are to be changed back. UAV, NARC, TAG, and Beagle Active Probe will no longer disable and or bypass ECM. The user with that equipment will be the only one benefiting from the increased data reception, but will be unable to transmit it.

BAP will instead allow the user who has it installed to detect if there is an ECM user near by. This means those who do not have BAP installed will not receive the "Low Signal" warning.

PPCs and another ECM however will still be capable to disrupting an enemy ECM.

ECM should also change how missiles behave. Instead of denying a lock on to LRMs and SSRMs, ECM will disable LRM and SRM ARTERMIS IV equipped enhancements turning them in to standard LRMS and SRMs. Standard LRMs and SSRMs will remain the same, but the moment they enter the ECM field their flight pattern will be scrambled and become erratic,similarly to how they behaved in Beta, leading to an increase to missile spread or even a possible miss on some missiles.

Absolutely G#dd@mmed right. This is how it is in the books. This is how it should have been implemented originally. This is what it should be changed to. Not someones (PGIs) Spin on 30 years of text.

[Quaamik]

I'm a bit annoyed.

Since ECM was introduced in the game players have complained that it was OP. Suggestions on how to fix it abounded. They ranged from eliminating it, to major range reductions (including limiting it to the carrying mech), to better counters both hard and soft, to minor range reductions, to bonuses / penalties on how it was employed. NONE were acted on.

Now, just before the actual release of 8 new clan mechs that can carry ECM, and long after those "early adopters" paid hard currency for the Wave III package, a major nerf to ECM is announced a couple days before they come out?!?

That's low. That's "bait and switch" kinda low.

No one (who is reasonable) expects a new mech to be the new meta. But when you look at what it offers and decide about buying it, you expect the components listed for it to work pretty much like they have all along. Yeah, everyone knows there might be a "quirk" adjustment here or there 5% - 10% worse on this stat or that stat. But this is a 50% negative global adjustment. That would be like buying 8 mechs that are primarily energy boats and having all lasers and PPCs have a 50% reduction in range announced a couple days before delivery.

Makes me put the money I was planning to put into Origins IIC mechs back in my pocket. They look good on paper, but who knows what will actually be delivered.

This nerf should have either been implemented months ago (of course that would have cut into Wave III sales) or, better, should have been stepped into gradually, with no more than around 10% -15% reduction at any one time.

Poor form PGI, Poor form.

Edited by Quaamik, 20 July 2015 - 06:57 PM.

[Malagant]

Personally, I think Tennex has the right of it. Change Signal/Electronic warfare to reflect lore. Seismic should be a default setting from the beginning, but ECM should reduce your radar's effectiveness. BAP should counter and detect such interference. All without effecting LRM or Streak lock ons.

[M E X]

Tastian, on 15 July 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

ECM needs more then a range decrease. The Streak/LRM/ECM/BAP/C3/Artemis/TAG/UAV/target information relationship needs to be overhauled.

The biggest problem is that EVERY MECH SEEMS TO HAVE A BUILT IN C3 !

Accourding to lore, only a C3 system allows you to share target information with your lance mate !
And as ECM disrupts C3, ECM seems so overpowered ... while actually the built in C3 is the really overpowered feature which should be removed !

[Desintegrator]

Great change !

Hopefully everybody spent MC's on that new Cataphract-0XP during the last weeks !

[Goose]

I've stopped carring: Give me a mode where there is no

• ECM
  
• Radar DERP
  
• Decay
  
• Sensor Range
  
• Info Gathering
  
• Sisemic
  
• 360° (I'm told it does somethign)
  
• Beagle
  
• Targiting Chump
  
• Command Couch
  
• Teh auto "R" key
  
• et al

As nice as it'd be to have a clue if my "Team®" was anywhere near my Elo, it's much moar improtant if teh pug mathches are worth a damn … and if I'm s3eing Lords, then it's all buuuuuuuuuslsshiiiit …

Seio9uls.y: whom thought having Chosein Winnners was a good idea …

[Cold Cash]

Good 1st step IMO. As the earlier poster suggested, having seismic as the default radar makes alot of sense, having certain lights(mainly) etc give you the ability to target mechs for lrms suddenly makes role warefare etc very exciting and potentially very viable and fulfilling.

[Nightshade24]

Voivode, on 17 July 2015 - 08:08 PM, said:

LRMs need the following in conjunction with this:

1) Buff to speed.

2) Nerf to lock on time

3) Increase of cooldown time.

Then we'll be talking

Isn't LRM's atm already considered one of the worst weapons to use out there that is still remotely practical by the metas eyes and by many players?

For many reasons like the LRM's spreading damage a lot (specificity LRM 20, even with artemis is still spreads a lot) or LRM 5's because it's to little for what it's worth in the ghost heat's eye (which is linked with all of them together and 2 max, with 5's only it's 3 max. but 3 LRM 5's do not seem like a huge threat)

practically the 15 is the only one that's worth it and even then it is still not as good as say a gauss rifle, large laser, etc.

I mean, if this increase in lock on time is accompanied by LRM 10 to 15 having 40% reduced spread and also streaks hit where they are aimed then I guess that's a fair trade off (specificly streaks... they need lots of help)

[Clownwarlord]

Sadist Cain, on 15 July 2015 - 02:42 PM, said:

make it 60m you wuss

Sounds good, bring the heavy hand down, the game needs it.

Agree 60 m if not smaller for your mech only!

Why?
Hellbringer, Shadow Cat, Hellbringer, Shadow Cat

The new CW clan drop deck.