108 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

Deathlike, on 22 July 2015 - 07:54 PM, said:

For extra velocity and range, you can always claim it's part of the design of that mech (variant). If a mech excels and LRMs (say Maddog), then to see them fly faster and farther than say a Timberwolf (that doesn't need LRM buffs), then I'm fine with that. Of course, I'd rather have the Maddog fixed differently, but that's no the point.

For extra "durability", you can say that it was reinforced (despite the fact there is probably stronger armor in lore).

Ammo on the other hand, you can't just say "somehow one ton of ammo can magically clone itself to be 50% more than normal" and still manage to be 1 ton.

Then again, ammo comes from any part of the mech, through a series of tubes. I get it, but you can't magically make more stuff out of thin air. "You can't make chicken salad out of chicken poop" is essentially my argument.

I think you are getting caught up on semantics, why would a Mad Dogs LRMs - that weigh the same and are the same - fly any faster than anyone else's LRMs?

Or why would PPCs, an energy weapon, fly faster and not only fly faster, fly at different speeds of "faster" depending on what mech.


It's all nonsense really, being able to load "extra" gauss ammo everywhere from it's crotch, to it's itty bitty toes is silly - but it's not more silly than any of that.

I mean, I can have a right leg that makes me accelerate faster than my left leg, but my left leg is my tough leg with extra structural integrity for no good reason.

+50% ammo isn't something I'll even blink at in comparison.

Deathlike, on 22 July 2015 - 07:54 PM, said:

Well, mediocre?

Yeah more like mediocre.

It's agility is off the charts though, it has excellent sniping mounts.


Go to builds will probably be 2x LPL (w or w/o 1x CERMLAS), 3x CERLLAS, 2x Some Laser + 3x SSRMs or SRMs - and for the bold and steady, 2x CERPPC jump sniping.


It jumps so high you can jump snipe with CLPLs on the way down and get almost a whole beam, it's pretty fun even if it's not practical or always wise.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 22 July 2015 - 08:07 PM.

[Xetelian]

Remove MASC ASAP

[Naduk]

you guys realize that masc's biggest advantage is the instant acceleration to maximum speed
2tons of increased engine size is stupid, why not just increase the engine and always have that speed
no thats not what masc is for

[Blue Shadow]

I don't think the Scat needs a boost too 140ish but a little more boost speed would make the 2 ton MASC more acceptable as Atm my prime build could really use those two tons for ammo/armour.

[RedDevil]

It's for both. The bonus excel and speed is paid for by being able to blow your mech up if you use it for more than 7 seconds. That's why it should be better than an engine of the same tonnage, because 99% of the time it's not able to be used.

[Greenjulius]

I took the Cat out again a few times last night and still can't find a build I like. I never have luck with SRMs and find myself dying too fast if I attempt brawling in my ELO. I think I might just go the lame route and be a big 2xLPL Raven.

I'd still like an option to remove MASC if it's not going to get a boost improvement however. I find that while useful, the accel/decel boosts would be better put into a couple extra DHS or tons of Gauss ammo.

[N a p e s]

Greenjulius, on 23 July 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

I took the Cat out again a few times last night and still can't find a build I like. I never have luck with SRMs and find myself dying too fast if I attempt brawling in my ELO. I think I might just go the lame route and be a big 2xLPL Raven.

I'd still like an option to remove MASC if it's not going to get a boost improvement however. I find that while useful, the accel/decel boosts would be better put into a couple extra DHS or tons of Gauss ammo.

I've come to a similar conclusion and would love for MASC to be optional which would free up 2 tons for builds that don't require the extra agility. Suddenly, the GR build is viable with 3.5 tons available for ammo and the ERPPC poptart can mount 2 additional DHS for better heat efficiency.

All in all though this thing might need a bit of hardpoint inflation or some better quirks.

[Greenjulius]

PowerOfNapes, on 23 July 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

I've come to a similar conclusion and would love for MASC to be optional which would free up 2 tons for builds that don't require the extra agility. Suddenly, the GR build is viable with 3.5 tons available for ammo and the ERPPC poptart can mount 2 additional DHS for better heat efficiency.

All in all though this thing might need a bit of hardpoint inflation or some better quirks.

It's such a great candidate for ERPPCs with its ECM and jumpiness, but it obviously runs too hot with 2 of them. A few extra DHS would go a long way for sure.

I knew that the 16 tons would be limiting, but I didn't expect to have this much trouble with it.

My next build will probably be the 2xMPL, 6xMG, 1xSRM6 build I've seen making rounds lately.

Edited by Greenjulius, 23 July 2015 - 10:40 AM.

[Ultimax]

Greenjulius, on 23 July 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

I took the Cat out again a few times last night and still can't find a build I like. I never have luck with SRMs and find myself dying too fast if I attempt brawling in my ELO. I think I might just go the lame route and be a big 2xLPL Raven.

I'd still like an option to remove MASC if it's not going to get a boost improvement however. I find that while useful, the accel/decel boosts would be better put into a couple extra DHS or tons of Gauss ammo.

2x CLPL + 1x CERMLAS is a 33 point alpha.

Comparable to a Shadowhawk 2K or Wolverine 6K.


The Shadowcat can't match their heat caps and dissipation, but they can't match MASC, ECM and if they are metabuilds they won't match its speed or jump capability (they have to give up cooling to do so).

[N a p e s]

Greenjulius, on 23 July 2015 - 10:36 AM, said:

It's such a great candidate for ERPPCs with its ECM and jumpiness, but it obviously runs too hot with 2 of them. A few extra DHS would go a long way for sure.

I knew that the 16 tons would be limiting, but I didn't expect to have this much trouble with it.

My next build will probably be the 2xMPL, 6xMG, 1xSRM6 build I've seen making rounds lately.

It really does feel limiting doesn't it. When you've got plenty of energy hardpoints it's not too much of an issue but with a mech like the SHC with only 3 it becomes tricky to balance your payload.

Also, I'm looking at this build next. SHC

Edited by PowerOfNapes, 23 July 2015 - 11:04 AM.

[Josef Koba]

Even if I ran mediums more than twice a year, which I don't, I would have never figured this out. Kudos to OP. You make some excellent point and it's hard for me to think your logic could be refuted by anything other than "That's just the way it is." Love seeing stuff like this out of my fellow pilots.

[Felio]

2 tons heavier than its XL 270 would be the XL 300. Its max speed before tweak would be 108 kph. With MASC active it currently goes 107.

Edited by Felio, 23 July 2015 - 11:32 AM.

[Greenjulius]

Felio, on 23 July 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

2 tons heavier than its XL 270 would be the XL 300. Its max speed before tweak would be 108 kph. With MASC active it currently goes 107.

That's exactly what I specified in the first post. The numbers I provided ARE with speed tweak. The XL300 on a 45 tonner is faster than the 10% boost MASC currently gives us with the XL270.

Josef Koba, on 23 July 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

Even if I ran mediums more than twice a year, which I don't, I would have never figured this out. Kudos to OP. You make some excellent point and it's hard for me to think your logic could be refuted by anything other than "That's just the way it is." Love seeing stuff like this out of my fellow pilots.

Thanks!

The common argument is that MASC is not meant to be a simple speed boost, but rather a temporary boost to Acceleration and Deceleration, as well as a turn rate booster.

My counter argument is that this is still not adequate, that this 2 ton component either needs to be lighter, or have a higher boost. The higher boost makes too much sense. A 15% boost instead of 10% would go a long way, and would keep us at the "Dreaded 172kph danger zone" that apparently breaks time and space in this game. (If you ran a 40 tonner with a XL340+MASC, for instance)

Edited by Greenjulius, 23 July 2015 - 11:52 AM.

[Kyrs]

Current MASC it a big fail, it acceleration serve as a clutches for people with bad skill in poking / timing.
Each laser strike should end by 0.25 before your hide next to a building, thus making usage more that useless.
Only the Clan ER-ppc viable weapons with masc but this is also very debatable.
Screen shake renders all weapon useless.
2 and 4 tons for a easier navigation between building is so circumstantial that it can't be considered.

The executioner can't keep up with the mad-cat that for 89kph (which is specified in the lore).
The 1 tons c-ECM if is twice as effective the the 4 tons masc.

Edited by Kyrs, 24 July 2015 - 11:16 AM.

[SaltBeef]

MASC should give the SCAT a better boost. at least to 124KPH or something 117 is weaksauce.

[Elkfire]

SaltBeef, on 24 July 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

MASC should give the SCAT a better boost. at least to 124KPH or something 117 is weaksauce.

I don't see what would have been so bad about the value Sarna lists, 130 kph. It would have at least helped partially justify the Shadow Cat's weaker firepower (which is a whole 'nother issue, and one that wouldn't really be as much of an issue if it had that occasional speed boost to add to its other good features).

Edited by Elkfire, 24 July 2015 - 10:15 PM.

[Mad Strike]

It should go 130 kph with MASC actually.......

[Mcgral18]

strikebrch, on 24 July 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

It should go 130 kph with MASC actually.......

142Kph, because that's without speed tweak. The same 129 Kph the ACH comes stock, +10%.

[Mad Strike]

Mcgral18, on 24 July 2015 - 10:54 PM, said:

142Kph, because that's without speed tweak. The same 129 Kph the ACH comes stock, +10%.

Oh but you have to put the 130 kph limit because you know...lore balance.

[Bloody]

well hopefully they will allow us to dump it from the Shadow Cat. 2 tons for for more ammo or even 2 more Clan ERML mounts on the CT would be better. I like it on the Exec but i would dump it too tbh as it is average at best for the tonnage and space used