157 replies to this topic

[bad arcade kitty]

well the drawback of scr it's no jj (and ecm), also only one ballistic hardpoint
timber has no real drawbacks (no ecm isn't really a drawback)
hellbringer has no jj too but it has ecm so it's in a better spot than scr drawback-wise

[Juodas Varnas]

bad arcade kitty, on 09 August 2015 - 05:29 AM, said:

well the drawback of scr it's no jj (and ecm), also only one ballistic hardpoint
timber has no real drawbacks (no ecm isn't really a drawback)
hellbringer has no jj too but it has ecm so it's in a better spot than scr drawback-wise

People consider "Not having JJs" a drawback now? Don't people WHINE and WHINE that they want to remove them from their mechs and can't?
Only 1 ballistic hardpoints isn't a drawback either, since almost nobody runs ballistics on it anyway. Lasers and missiles are better than ballistics anyway.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 09 August 2015 - 05:36 AM.

[bad arcade kitty]

having multiple fixed jj and having no jj are completely different things
being able to use 1 or 2 jj is a major advantage for any mech, without jj crow very often has to use a long route etc

[FupDup]

bad arcade kitty, on 09 August 2015 - 05:29 AM, said:

well the drawback of scr it's no jj (and ecm), also only one ballistic hardpoint
timber has no real drawbacks (no ecm isn't really a drawback)
hellbringer has no jj too but it has ecm so it's in a better spot than scr drawback-wise

The majority of the mechs in MWO don't have ECM either, so that's kinda silly to list.

No JJs is significant, but also quite common.

Only 1 ballistic doesn't really matter because making good use of more ballistics is kinda hard with only 23 tons of pod space, even with reduced Clan weapon tonnage. The best you could do is 2 UAC/5 + 3 ERML, which would be viable I guess but I'd rather do a 4 ERML + 2 UAC/5 Loki at that rate. Boating MGs would be just silly.


Basically, the mechs that I listed are well-rounded units that don't have a crippling flaw in one area. They don't have engines that are too small or too large, they don't have terrible hitboxes, they don't have bad hardpoints, they don't have bad pod space. They're just really well-designed all-rounders. The Arctic Chinchilla seems to be the light class equivalent of such mechs.

Edited by FupDup, 09 August 2015 - 06:16 AM.

[Weztside]

Excessive Paranoia, on 09 August 2015 - 01:39 AM, said:

Its posts like this that really make me think that many of those defending the ACH really just don't want to lose the advantage their money has bought them. I don't dispute that it should be an effective counter to the FS9, and it really should be a good mech, but it shouldn't be able to absorb the same volume of fire that an assault can take before going down. And for the record, correcting the hitboxes so that a leg or torso actually takes the proper amount of damage when it is hit is NOT a nerf, but rather a fix.

I don't want to see a change or "fix" implemented because people with no actual proof or evidence are hopping on the forums with hate threads claiming its broken. Says who? Says the random guy on the internet that thinks he is qualified to label something as broken. Yes, lets "fix" this broken mech and let it drift into obscurity because I don't like it when my 100 ton behemoth is cored through the back in 3 seconds flat. Thankfully, PGI collects data on it's mechs and doesn't pay attention to these forums.

[KHETTI]

Funny seeing the crutch pilots come and desperately protect their broken toys.
Tanking damage that is mathamatically impossible isn't skill.
TBH i'd like to see both the firestarter and Artic Cheater removed, yes they are both broken, and currently shouldnt have a place in this game.

Edited by KHETTI, 09 August 2015 - 07:42 AM.

[Kain Demos]

Mcgral18, on 09 August 2015 - 12:03 AM, said:

I have no more trouble with them than I do Firestarters when it comes to legging them.


You can argue Quirks and be correct, but damage-taking wise, they seem fine. Just remember, they have stronger legs than FS9s because quirks. Weapons are a touch hotter, but 2 points of heat on an alpha? Not noteworthy (also quirks).

You would think poeple would be able to put 2 and 2 together and realize that the 'mechs everyone thinks are "broken" hitbox wise are 30-35 ton humanoid 'mechs that move 140-150kph.

There is nothing "magic" about them where they sport a black hole that your supposed "kill shots" are going. They just have good hitboxes and speed so sweeping them with lasers is not going to do much to any single component.

[ClanKiller]

Weztside, on 09 August 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

I don't want to see a change or "fix" implemented because people with no actual proof or evidence are hopping on the forums with hate threads claiming its broken. Says who? Says the random guy on the internet that thinks he is qualified to label something as broken. Yes, lets "fix" this broken mech and let it drift into obscurity because I don't like it when my 100 ton behemoth is cored through the back in 3 seconds flat. Thankfully, PGI collects data on it's mechs and doesn't pay attention to these forums.

I've played a lot of matches against the the Arctic Cheetah and didn't post until I was spectating a shutdown one taking a lot of damage and not reflecting that damage. The shots did not miss.

For me the issue is not aiming, range, equipment, clan or IS. It's the fact that the mech doesn't register hits.

[Aresye]

Excessive Paranoia, on 09 August 2015 - 01:39 AM, said:

Its posts like this that really make me think that many of those defending the ACH really just don't want to lose the advantage their money has bought them. I don't dispute that it should be an effective counter to the FS9, and it really should be a good mech, but it shouldn't be able to absorb the same volume of fire that an assault can take before going down. And for the record, correcting the hitboxes so that a leg or torso actually takes the proper amount of damage when it is hit is NOT a nerf, but rather a fix.

Couple things:

1. It does not absorb the same volume of fire as an assault. If you truly think it does, I'd like to see a video of that.
2. Hit reg has been abysmal since the latest patch, with every mech tanking what would normally be kill and/or crippling shots.

[Excessive Paranoia]

Weztside, on 09 August 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

I don't want to see a change or "fix" implemented because people with no actual proof or evidence are hopping on the forums with hate threads claiming its broken. Says who? Says the random guy on the internet that thinks he is qualified to label something as broken. Yes, lets "fix" this broken mech and let it drift into obscurity because I don't like it when my 100 ton behemoth is cored through the back in 3 seconds flat. Thankfully, PGI collects data on it's mechs and doesn't pay attention to these forums.

And yet it's not just one person coming forth with the complaint, but many. Sure, some of it might just be fueled by frustration, but as more and more people come forward to support the premise, its clear to me at least that there is a problem to be fixed. Also, the problem is NOT that the ACH can maneuver behind a 100-ton behemoth to core it from the back, but that it can often survive a prolonged frontal assault by said behemoth or even several behemoths. Again, if you really think this is working as intended, it genuinely gives the rest of us the impression that you just don't want to lose an unfair advantage...

Aresye Kerensky, on 09 August 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

Couples things:

1. It does not absorb the same volume of fire as an assault. If you truly think it does, I'd like to see a video of that.
2. Hit reg has been abysmal since the latest patch, with every mech tanking what would normally be kill and/or crippling shots.

Notice that I said volume of fire, not volume of damage. The same number and intensity of attacks are being delivered to the ACH as a DWF, yet a huge portion of those aren't registering at all, and a large portion of the ones that do are either spread all over the body, strike with a small percentage of their total damage potential, or both.

I would also point out that my FS9 can't even come close to the level of damage mitigation that the ACH manages, despite being almost as hard to hit. This means that, while a contributing factor, the hit reg changes are really not the main culprit. If they were, my FS9 would be just as immune as the ACH.

Edited by Excessive Paranoia, 09 August 2015 - 04:10 PM.

[Dino Might]

Weztside, on 09 August 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

I don't want to see a change or "fix" implemented because people with no actual proof or evidence are hopping on the forums with hate threads claiming its broken. Says who? Says the random guy on the internet that thinks he is qualified to label something as broken. Yes, lets "fix" this broken mech and let it drift into obscurity because I don't like it when my 100 ton behemoth is cored through the back in 3 seconds flat. Thankfully, PGI collects data on it's mechs and doesn't pay attention to these forums.

This is editorializing. Proof of what? I've listed everything that can be proven by one glance in the mech lab.

And yes, I consider myself experienced enough in lights to tell you that the ACH is OP.

[Mcgral18]

Dino Might, on 09 August 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

This is editorializing. Proof of what? I've listed everything that can be proven by one glance in the mech lab.

And yes, I consider myself experienced enough in lights to tell you that the ACH is OP.

Seems roughly on par to the FS9-S to me:


Not a fan of the A, but it's also quite deadly.

[Hit the Deck]

Mcgral18, on 09 August 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

Seems roughly on par to the FS9-S to me:


Not a fan of the A, but it's also quite deadly.

That's some amazing stats!

[Dino Might]

Mcgral18, on 09 August 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

Seems roughly on par to the FS9-S to me:


Not a fan of the A, but it's also quite deadly.

Want my opinion on Firestarters?

*hint: comparison to a Firestarter does not support the case of the ACH being balanced

Edited by Dino Might, 09 August 2015 - 06:42 PM.

[Kubernetes]

Kain Demos, on 09 August 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

You would think poeple would be able to put 2 and 2 together and realize that the 'mechs everyone thinks are "broken" hitbox wise are 30-35 ton humanoid 'mechs that move 140-150kph.

There is nothing "magic" about them where they sport a black hole that your supposed "kill shots" are going. They just have good hitboxes and speed so sweeping them with lasers is not going to do much to any single component.

Really? What about first-hand experiences of shooting shut-down ACHs and registering negligible damage. I've also spectated lots of ridiculous ACHs survive after shutting down and taking lots of CT hits. So yeah, I would say there's something "magical" about their hitboxes.

[Mcgral18]

Dino Might, on 09 August 2015 - 06:40 PM, said:

Want my opinion on Firestarters?

*hint: comparison to a Firestarter does not support the case of the ACH being balanced

The ACH could stand to lose quirks; nearly all of them. That's about it.
Give them to the SadCat.


What else can you do?

[Druarc]

I think it's a lot to do with people not being use to a fast clan light, snuck up on one yesterday and rear CTd it no issues.

[Big Bertha 00]

It's worse than trying to hit a firestarter. I rarely see one die before getting to below 30% health.

[MechWarrior849305]

Mcgral18, on 09 August 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

How did u manage to get that new stat's look? It seems to me I have old one

[Mcgral18]

DuoAngel, on 09 August 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

How did u manage to get that new stat's look? It seems to me I have old one

MadStats Google Chrome plug in.


Makes sorting it easier.

https://chrome.googl...cdekpdnidcoloon