1017 replies to this topic

[Vlad Ward]

Nathan K, on 17 August 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

Well since you like to act like anyone who does under 4,000 damage is a hopeless waste of space. Do you really think it matters to me if I look cool to you or not? I do not live to please you dude.

Nah, not really. Besides, the only way to get that kind of damage is to have a team that's just incapable of hitting anything. Gotta carry hard for those c-bills. Unit players aren't going to put up scores like that because their teammates are competent.

I think what people think of you on the internet matters a lot to you, though. Why else would you come in here trumpeting your reckless disregard for conventional wisdom and nonsensical antipathy for earnest, high level play?

It's because you refuse to bow down to the meta overlords and want to make sure everyone knows it.

It's an extraordinarily common sort of bad attitude and a very large part of why the average skill gap remains so large in this game 3 years after open beta.

[Uncle Totty]

Vlad Ward, on 17 August 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

Nah, not really. Besides, the only way to get that kind of damage is to have a team that's just incapable of hitting anything. Gotta carry hard for those c-bills. Unit players aren't going to put up scores like that because their teammates are competent.

I think what people think of you on the internet matters a lot to you, though. Why else would you come in here trumpeting your reckless disregard for conventional wisdom and nonsensical antipathy for earnest, high level play?

It's because you refuse to bow down to the meta overlords and want to make sure everyone knows it.

It's an extraordinarily common sort of bad attitude and a very large part of why the average skill gap remains so large in this game 3 years after open beta.

The best way to get better, is to fight the best.

[Vlad Ward]

Nathan K, on 17 August 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

The best way to get better, is to fight the best.

No. The best way to get better is to be the best you can be, then push that limit against something better.

Sitting around in intentionally gimped Mechs and calling it training is some dragonball z style ********. You do not instantly become 10x stronger when you decide to get serious and take off your weighted clothing.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 17 August 2015 - 03:48 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

The thing is, anyone who drops solo in CW who is "in the know", needs to drop in carry-mechs. If you want to screw around in your LRM boat, do it in the public queue. Because chances are, in CW you are going to have to make up for 4-6 yahoos on your team who think they are awesome in their gimped mechs, so your team is going to need all the cheese it can get to hope to stand up to an organized group who won't be taking gimped mechs, and even if they do, their coordination is something to overcome.

If you are trying to be "better than everyone" by taking a bad mech, you are screwing over your team, because you could contribute more and help to make up for the new player with a trial mech drop deck, but instead you are letting him face tank in his XL Trial Victor so you can lob LRMs over his head. That's not very nice is it??

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 17 August 2015 - 03:56 PM.

[Uncle Totty]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 August 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

The thing is, anyone who drops solo in CW who is "in the know", needs to drop in carry-mechs. If you want to screw around in your LRM boat, do it in the public queue. Because chances are, in CW you are going to have to make up for 4-6 yahoos on your team who think they are awesome in their gimped mechs, so your team is going to need all the cheese it can get to hope to stand up to an organized group who won't be taking gimped mechs, and even if they do, their coordination is something to overcome.

If you are trying to be "better than everyone" by taking a bad mech, you are screwing over your team, because you could contribute more and help to make up for the new player with a trial mech drop deck, but instead you are letting him face tank in his XL Trial Victor so you can lob LRMs over his head. That's not very nice is it??

Two LRM 5s does not make an LRM boat. (Also, I sort of moved on from that.)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...76aa13ec6f73ef2

[Aresye]

Nathan K, on 17 August 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

The best way to get better, is to fight the best.

True, however the best is going to be running the meta as hard as they can.

One thing I like to do in my unit is to tweak loadouts for many of the newer players, but still allowing them to keep some of their individuality. In other words, I don't just tell them to copy-paste a meta build, unless they're so bad at the game that they just need to in order to progress as a player. I look at their loadout and tweak it to optimize heat efficiency, weapon placement, add a shield side if it doesn't have one, and swap omnipods in/out to take advantage of quirks and/or minimize negative quirks.

What you consider "meta" nowadays, is really just smart mech-building. It's not like it was this time last year where PPC/Gauss poptarts were the main loadout of choice on any chassis that could run it. There's dozens of different loadouts and chassis that are good, solid builds now.

Being able to build a good mech is a skill as well, as is understanding the core game mechanics on what makes an effective build.

[IraqiWalker]

Aresye Kerensky, on 17 August 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

True, however the best is going to be running the meta as hard as they can.

One thing I like to do in my unit is to tweak loadouts for many of the newer players, but still allowing them to keep some of their individuality. In other words, I don't just tell them to copy-paste a meta build, unless they're so bad at the game that they just need to in order to progress as a player. I look at their loadout and tweak it to optimize heat efficiency, weapon placement, add a shield side if it doesn't have one, and swap omnipods in/out to take advantage of quirks and/or minimize negative quirks.

What you consider "meta" nowadays, is really just smart mech-building. It's not like it was this time last year where PPC/Gauss poptarts were the main loadout of choice on any chassis that could run it. There's dozens of different loadouts and chassis that are good, solid builds now.

Being able to build a good mech is a skill as well, as is understanding the core game mechanics on what makes an effective build.

You know what this reminds me of: CONFIGS!

Hilariously, CLAN MECH CONFIGS.

How do you guys think those configs came about? People recognized that this particular loadout was very good for situation X. So it spread around, becoming the meta config for that situation (Ex: TBR-S for urban combat).

No faction in BT history used "meta builds" as we think of them now, than the clans. Because people recognized certain loadouts worked better than anything else for a given battlefield, and those became the well known alternate configs.

Off Topic: One idea I had about conveying clan mech advantage over IS mechs, was giving clan players either saved loadouts, that they can swap into during the match loading screen AFTER they know what the map is (which is almost identical to lore), or give them 45+ seconds in the match wait screen to rebuild their mechs to best suit the map. Again, just like lore). Both would be insane advantages sadly, so I doubt they will go through.

[Uncle Totty]

IraqiWalker, on 17 August 2015 - 04:49 PM, said:

You know what this reminds me of: CONFIGS!

Hilariously, CLAN MECH CONFIGS.

How do you guys think those configs came about? People recognized that this particular loadout was very good for situation X. So it spread around, becoming the meta config for that situation (Ex: TBR-S for urban combat).

No faction in BT history used "meta builds" as we think of them now, than the clans. Because people recognized certain loadouts worked better than anything else for a given battlefield, and those became the well known alternate configs.

Off Topic: One idea I had about conveying clan mech advantage over IS mechs, was giving clan players either saved loadouts, that they can swap into during the match loading screen AFTER they know what the map is (which is almost identical to lore), or give them 45+ seconds in the match wait screen to rebuild their mechs to best suit the map. Again, just like lore). Both would be insane advantages sadly, so I doubt they will go through.

I was really hoping for this to be the way OmniMechs worked when they first came out.

[Aresye]

Nathan K, on 17 August 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

Two LRM 5s does not make an LRM boat. (Also, I sort of moved on from that.)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...76aa13ec6f73ef2

Hope you don't mind, but I took your loadout and tweaked it a bit:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1a37bb12f3e083c

You've got high mounted energy weapons for poking, a shield arm (right arm), a targeting computer mk. 1, SRM-6s instead of 4s, better cooling, higher DPS, and frontloaded armor.

Not a meta mech, but optimized to provide you more survivability and cooling in short range engagements.

[wanderer]

Nathan K, on 17 August 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

The best way to get better, is to fight the best.

The best way to get better is to fight the best with an actual team in CW.

PUGs are like attempting to play football against an NFL-level team singlehandedly. Git gud as much as you like, you still need a team or you're getting smoked anyway.

[Vlad Ward]

wanderer, on 17 August 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

The best way to get better is to fight the best

No. Stop. Stop reinforcing this nonsense.

Running around losing to better teams does not make you better on its own. Your opponents' contribution to the process is secondary to your own efforts.

You can race Michael Phelps 23,582 times, but if you refuse to wear goggles and insist on doggie paddling you'll never be an Olympic level swimmer. Hell, you'll never even be a half-decent swimmer if all your practice is in doggie paddling.

People like to assume that they can seamlessly transition from playing garbage to playing real Mechs and suddenly receive some power level spike. That's not how practice works. You can be the single best Urbanmech player on the planet but it doesn't mean your can play worth a damn in a Firestarter.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 17 August 2015 - 07:25 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 August 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

The thing is, anyone who drops solo in CW who is "in the know", needs to drop in carry-mechs. If you want to screw around in your LRM boat, do it in the public queue. Because chances are, in CW you are going to have to make up for 4-6 yahoos on your team who think they are awesome in their gimped mechs, so your team is going to need all the cheese it can get to hope to stand up to an organized group who won't be taking gimped mechs, and even if they do, their coordination is something to overcome.

If you are trying to be "better than everyone" by taking a bad mech, you are screwing over your team, because you could contribute more and help to make up for the new player with a trial mech drop deck, but instead you are letting him face tank in his XL Trial Victor so you can lob LRMs over his head. That's not very nice is it??

Example, this was a pug drop because I forgot to check who stayed after team broke up and dropped Gas on accident. Not saying three people carried that, but the numbers speak for themselves, you'll note three people totally outdamged the entire alpha lance on the winning side.....

Also clans to stronk.

Edited by Yokaiko, 18 August 2015 - 12:55 AM.

[Uncle Totty]

Yokaiko, on 18 August 2015 - 12:52 AM, said:

Example, this was a pug drop because I forgot to check who stayed after team broke up and dropped Gas on accident. Not saying three people carried that, but the numbers speak for themselves, you'll note three people totally outdamged the entire alpha lance on the winning side.....

Also clans to stronk.

Funny. You pull those numbers in metas, it shows how great you are.

I pull those numbers in "trash" I am "holding my team back".

[Yokaiko]

Nathan K, on 18 August 2015 - 01:24 AM, said:

Funny. You pull those numbers in metas, it shows how great you are.

I pull those numbers in "trash" I am "holding my team back".

You aren't pulling those numbers in trash.

[ApolloKaras]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 August 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

The thing is, anyone who drops solo in CW who is "in the know", needs to drop in carry-mechs. If you want to screw around in your LRM boat, do it in the public queue. Because chances are, in CW you are going to have to make up for 4-6 yahoos on your team who think they are awesome in their gimped mechs, so your team is going to need all the cheese it can get to hope to stand up to an organized group who won't be taking gimped mechs, and even if they do, their coordination is something to overcome.

This is so true. Normally I'll try to key in and give general direction maybe even call primaries if I'm surrounded by solo's. The 2nd point to this is the builds. Oh my god the builds. Spider 5K's, Locust, Grid Iron with a Uac 5 and an ER PPC, Dire Wolf with 2 lrm 20s ER Large and a Medium Pulse... Even saw someone with a stock Shadowhawk. :| You can attempt to help these folks but they either ignore you completely or tell you to die in a fire. lol.

Yokaiko, on 18 August 2015 - 01:29 AM, said:

You aren't pulling those numbers in trash.

Damage numbers aren't everything. Both you and Gas's numbers in there are quite good because you all are applying that damage to the kills. I've seen people with Dragon 1N's shooting the crap out of everything getting high damage but the damage is all over the place. See also streak boats, AC2/AC5 Jagers. However if everyone on the team is doing what they are supposed to be doing you should see somewhat even damage across the board. You can have low damage numbers against unskilled opponents and still steam roll.

Edited by Saxie, 18 August 2015 - 04:29 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Saxie, on 18 August 2015 - 04:29 AM, said:

You can have low damage numbers against unskilled opponents and still steam roll.

Indeed the 1400-1800 damage I was talking about earlier.

Pretty sure that was the 250 ton DD experiment, so my deck would have been FS9-S, DRG-1N, STK-4N and TDR-5SS, and four of those kills were with the Firestarter with dudes that wanted to play poke.

[BSK]

Onimusha shin, on 17 August 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

Take it from the guy who has finetuned gen rushing to an art. and evidence that units DO care more about planetary conquest than the cbills, lol!

Actually we always respect events when users need a minimum match score to achieve points. We also try to involve as many people from our current faction to get people connected, making it neccessary to even out the lower skill by going for objectives. Today I had 3 Australian guys in our ts and we were from 4 different factions. So we made synch drops and these guys got connected to good players in their timezone. But even more so often we encounter people who don't want to join us on our teamspeak nor otherwise give us their teamspeak location. If they then even refuse to coordinate with us "non-loyalists" or "casuals", then we just do our own thing.
We are not here to teach everyone the basics in every single game about teamplay. There is no one-liner that will change their mind anyway.

Apart from that, we do care about . Our record for finishing an attack with heavy mechs and the new gens is 3:41 minutes. That still gives 400k . A good match with 3k damage gives 900k but takes 30 minutes. Theoretically I could play 5-6 short attacks in the same time and gain more than 2000k .

Do we care about planets? Of course! It's free advertising for our CW activity and brings in new recruits. Right now we are even building up a 2nd unit [BSKi] for Clan-only players.

Nathan K, on 17 August 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

Two LRM 5s does not make an LRM boat. (Also, I sort of moved on from that.)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...76aa13ec6f73ef2

Try this one: TBR-A

Yokaiko, on 18 August 2015 - 12:52 AM, said:

Not saying three people carried that, but the numbers speak for themselves, you'll note three people totally outdamged the entire alpha lance on the winning side.....

4 people carried against a 12 man:

[NGxT]

I like how the unifying theme among all the "PUGs can beat 12 mans" screenshots is that they are all against SWOL

Edited by NGRT, 18 August 2015 - 06:44 AM.

[Mazzyplz]

xe N on, on 09 August 2015 - 12:13 AM, said:

I'm a solo player and I'm fine with this. I don't play CW. I guess, 90% of all solo players avoid CW, because it is a PUG stomp and farming mode for 12 mans.

My proposal: make it 12 man only. Wait for 2 month and analyze the player population.

Then, if only a minority of players in total play CW, either shut it down or make each CW drop cost 100 MC or so per player.

Developing a entire new mode that is only used by a minority of the player base is not cost effective and, in addition, delays the development of other games aspects.

shut it down and make the usual maps work for capturing planet; the big problem with community warfare and why people don't play it is not because of the abundance or lack of noobs, it is because the maps and the game mode COMPLETELY and UTTERLY SUCK.
who wants to drive 5 minutes inside a boring trench to get to a chokepoint where the other team has a firing line waiting? really??? i'd rather get one shot by 50 ppcs or narc'd and shot with 1000000 lrm. that's just my opinion.
the regular game mode not only have better design and are more varied in the approach (cause you have more than 3 attack "avenues") but also tactically because you can flank from anywhere, use elevation - and the style of the map changes more, there are radically different maps, with huge open space like alpine, or claustrophobic like mining collective

all cw maps are like the same map with different skins, except the snow one with a little more open space i guess.
as such the builds used by players arent as varied as in the regular modes either

they really messed up when they made the CW maps inspired by MOBAS -

as if warcraft 3 map design was acceptable for a first person shooter, FACEPALM HARD.

you had 3 roads to a goal in warcraft because it was a crappy top down strategy game,
it doesnt work here!!!!!!! jesus i still cant believe they did that

[Mazzyplz]

i dont want to play cw as solo and i don't want to play cw as 12 man, it sucks either way.

revamp the game mode get rid of moba style maps, it killed your CW mode.


MAKE IT CAPTURE THE FLAG like unreal tournament or tribes or even some Wolf:ET maps.
maps that would be almost mirrored for both teams, not one attacker drives and one defender shoots a choke, we have established that is boring by now. ok?

instead of capturing a flag, the mech would deploy a uav or something - and scan an inner part of the enemy base, in order to gain intelligence or retrieve lostech. then run back to theirs where a dropship is waiting for extraction. the players can fight the enemy dropship to give it 15 more seconds when a new dropship arrives, but the dropship shoots back of course.

then have the planets just give the owner team that is currently playing a little bit of a home turf advantage like in battlefront

stuff like pit stops in your base where you can return and get more ammo for your autocannon.
other planet could have turrets for the base of whoever is controling the planet (defending)
other planet could have a temperature difference between the home defeding team's base, and the other half of map.
none of these advantages are major, but they do give an incentive to capture some planets over others and puts an actual strategic spin on it.

you could have the planets grouped in systems, instead of making attack windows like you do now, like you would have to choose which system you wanted to attack that day