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Solo Players Should Never Be Allowed To Drop In Community Warfare.

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#81 Kin3ticX

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 04:51 PM

So how do we force PGI to actually do something? Heres what we need

-Consolidate soon™. I suggest a Tukayyid style mega queue where solos only match with solos and solos only fill in for 8 grouped players. Require groups to launch with either 4-mans, 8-mans, or 12-mans to make the low pop + basic MM work and readily stitch together. You have to be willing to give up options to save CW.
-play the mega queue until CW is really ready
-grow CW faction count with the population growth as improvements come

Just have to stop the seal clubbing asap. They just are not going to "git gud" like everyone wants.

I really dont care about taking planets until they have perks or something, coffers do something, units can hire units, and all that stuff.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 09 August 2015 - 04:52 PM.


#82 Frankenst3in

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 05:04 PM

View PostKin3ticX, on 09 August 2015 - 04:51 PM, said:

So how do we force PGI to actually do something? Heres what we need

-Consolidate soon™. I suggest a Tukayyid style mega queue where solos only match with solos and solos only fill in for 8 grouped players. Require groups to launch with either 4-mans, 8-mans, or 12-mans to make the low pop + basic MM work and readily stitch together. You have to be willing to give up options to save CW.
-play the mega queue until CW is really ready
-grow CW faction count with the population growth as improvements come

Just have to stop the seal clubbing asap. They just are not going to "git gud" like everyone wants.

I really dont care about taking planets until they have perks or something, coffers do something, units can hire units, and all that stuff.

I agree with everything said here. Right now we have a small population spread too thin. The population needs to be concentrated ASAP until improvements can grow the pop. The seal clubbing has become very silly, so I have been dropping in ~4 or less for the majority of the time I play these days, but it is really, really hard to find matches with that group size, which means... I just end up playing way less than I would like. More depth is absolutely a necessity, but lets be realistic, that will take time. The population issues are NOW, and it needs to be addressed. This is a beta still, we need to make sure that more matches can actually happen so that actual gameplay issues can be sussed out.

#83 The Blood God

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 05:43 PM

View PostMechB Kotare, on 09 August 2015 - 04:25 AM, said:

Unless PGI introduces 4v4s 5v5s 8v8s whatever v whatever ladders, CW will remain dead, and excluding solos from it will only make it worse. CSJ - Draconis combine corridor is already dead.

Unless they introduce more objectives, more PVE content, more reasons to capture specific map (economic, strategic, industrial values....) CW will be a ***** waste of time.

Now for few points.

CW already offers increased CBILL and EXP rewards, it is more than logical that people in trial mechs would rather play CW, so they can get rid of trial mechs as soon as possible.

EMP, Lords and other "game communities" you mentioned dont even play CW, they are simply not interested in it.

In my opinion its the faction jumping system that ruins most of my and other players' experience, because we have over populated units like 228 and MS that are jumping however they want, ignoring diplomacies of Clan and/or house loyalists hardcore players.

Solo players are actually those who keep CW at least partially alive, your argument of them destroying CW is invalid.

I dont see a reason why anyone should be forced to join a unit, in order to fully enjoy F2P game content. Joining a unit should be privilege not, not a law.

You are being unreasonable rage boy.


we get a lot of games with hate for premades if not most games, we get a lot of abuse off enemies over chat for being a unit before the match starts followed by disconnects because they dont want to fight us (because its no fun for them im guessing so they bitterly DC and ruin the match) and we always give the same response " join a unit and communicate, fight us like we fight you" on the rare occasion we do draw another pre-made team we love it the games are usually close sometimes there are come backs from being 10 kills down its exciting sometimes we even loose but they are the games we want, the free money solo stomp looses its appeal after a few games especially if the drop zone gets camped might as well be drop ship war fare

and as for unit size there may be nearly 300 members in MS but they are spread across a lot of time zones and i haven't seen more than 24 on line at once in cw since tukayyid (forgive my spelling if wrong) and i dont see how faction hopping messes with anything other than the story line which i and many others couldn't care less about as the lore and books and all that jazz are well........dull and tedious and just will not make this game exciting other than making a reason for IS and clans to fight, remember planets and territory mean nothing we just like changing up the mechs so that we dont get board we spent 3 weeks as clan once by day 10 i was board of clan mechs and played public que in IS until we switched so dont label us a traitors or lore breaker (yes lore) because this game requires matches to be played and if we defend you one week then attack the next its nothing personal we just want opponents and theres lots of people fighting on this planet so we're having a piece of the action and no one cares about clan dickplomacies or in house loyalist hardcore vaginas or what faction you are, we care about intense fights, c-bills, exp, mechs and high damage scores that make us feel better about the size of our genitals.

i don't think solo droppers should be banned from cw just banned from crap talking about it because its a different game if you play as a co-ordinated team and even better if you play against one

#84 The Blood God

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 05:51 PM

View PostWildstreak, on 09 August 2015 - 04:26 AM, said:

New players I could understand wanting to keep them out.

solo not new, new player ? in a unit ?= happy new player winning games
new player trying to be a one man army in cw = dead cw

#85 The Blood God

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 05:57 PM

View PostVoid Angel, on 09 August 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

How can I say this politely... Hmm... Your position is nonsense - and yes, that was polite.


brutal! man brutal!

#86 slide

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 07:05 PM

Solos, small groups, units, good players, bad players, average players and any category I have forgotten.

We need them ALL to make CW even remotely viable. The 6 or 8 units that can actually field 12 players will be sick of playing each other (only) with in a month.

Ranking and handicapping* units v other units v pugs is the only viable way of giving people a chance to learn how to play the game and get better at it.

Forcing people into a unit or into creating a unit will not magically make them any better at playing CW. The only thing this will achieve is to create an underhive of "bad" units that no one will want to join and having seen some of the requirements to join some of the "elite" teams they won't be able to join them anyway.

Short of a full on ELO style match maker which we in no way have the population for (probably not even in the pug queues either) there is no other way. Otherwise the status quo will remain and neither groups or solos like the status quo.

*By handicap, I mean a higher ranked team (CW ranking based on win/loss not groups ELO) takes a drop deck (per player) tonnage hit when playing a lesser ranked team.

#87 Kin3ticX

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 07:49 PM

View Postslide, on 09 August 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

Solos, small groups, units, good players, bad players, average players and any category I have forgotten.

We need them ALL to make CW even remotely viable. The 6 or 8 units that can actually field 12 players will be sick of playing each other (only) with in a month.

Ranking and handicapping* units v other units v pugs is the only viable way of giving people a chance to learn how to play the game and get better at it.

Forcing people into a unit or into creating a unit will not magically make them any better at playing CW. The only thing this will achieve is to create an underhive of "bad" units that no one will want to join and having seen some of the requirements to join some of the "elite" teams they won't be able to join them anyway.

Short of a full on ELO style match maker which we in no way have the population for (probably not even in the pug queues either) there is no other way. Otherwise the status quo will remain and neither groups or solos like the status quo.

*By handicap, I mean a higher ranked team (CW ranking based on win/loss not groups ELO) takes a drop deck (per player) tonnage hit when playing a lesser ranked team.



Tonnage handicap is probably no go. For example, if you drop me down to 220, I will still be able to bring HBR, HBR, HBR, MLX. When Clubbing seals, that 3rd or 4th mech often never gets used and I will just take the tonnage out of the last mech. Vise versa, if you bump it up to just 260, you are able to have 4 hellbringers or 4 thunderwubs.

Variable tonnage is also a pain in the ass. When IS had the 250, lots of people werent even using it because IS vs IS was 240 and Russ also tweeted that like only 30% were using the 250 handicap anyways.

So tonnage handicap is not as simple or as affective as it seems. Willing to try it though.

#88 slide

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 08:04 PM

View PostKin3ticX, on 09 August 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:



Tonnage handicap is probably no go. For example, if you drop me down to 220, I will still be able to bring HBR, HBR, HBR, MLX. When Clubbing seals, that 3rd or 4th mech often never gets used and I will just take the tonnage out of the last mech. Vise versa, if you bump it up to just 260, you are able to have 4 hellbringers or 4 thunderwubs.

Variable tonnage is also a pain in the ass. When IS had the 250, lots of people werent even using it because IS vs IS was 240 and Russ also tweeted that like only 30% were using the 250 handicap anyways.

So tonnage handicap is not as simple or as affective as it seems. Willing to try it though.


I agree that it is not simple to implement a tonnage handicap, I also agree that it in all likely hood against vastly different teams (skillwise) it will make no difference but it does give the poor pugger a semblance of hope (and a slightly increased chance) of living a bit longer and maybe learning something. I was thinking more along the lines of 50 tonnes when a full 12 goes up against pugs, but teams would need to be ranked first, I have a list somewhere in another post. I'll try to dig it up. Here

The renewed Battle Value system PGI are talking will be a better way to handicap better teams but until then what other options do we have. Giving the slaughtered players more Cbills might lessen the pain of being stomped but won't give them the opportunity to learn. I would hate to see a return to Disco Farming like we had back in closed beta.

Edited by slide, 09 August 2015 - 08:38 PM.


#89 ApolloKaras

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 08:12 PM

View PostArmando, on 09 August 2015 - 12:01 AM, said:

PGI lied to me...

I was told there was going to be community warfare, and it doesn't exist. Not when the game was released, not last week, not today, has NEVER happened.

What PGI laughably CALLS Community Warfare is really just a solo que where players get to drop in 4 mechs. I was TOLD that I was going to get a COMMUNITY of players, working together as a faction / mercenary units to fight against. I call BULLSH!T !!!!!

All I see, match after match, after match, after match is solo players in trials who can't break 100 damage using 4 mechs.

This brings be to the Topic Title:

SOLO PLAYERS SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO QUE FOR COMMUNITY WARFARE.

FACT: Solo players have a que to fight against other solo players already.
FACT: There is no game mode for only 12 man groups. (What COMMUNITY warfare should have been).

As long as a solo player can que for a 'community warfare' drop, there is no community warfare. PGI farked over every community of players (every unit in the game) by allowing solo players the OPTION to que for community warfare. PGI farked over every solo player in game by giving them a chance to que without a unit (If can do it, you should be able to...not solo players fault for attacking/defending solo....it should have never been an option).

TL:DR - Community Warfare should not be an option for solo players, No unit, no que option. Fix community warfare....solo players have their que, 2-11 players have their ques, 12 mans should have our community warfare.

Thank you for your time.

- Armando


I dunno Armando, if you take the solo players out right now CW is dead. I have only played one game against another 12 man in the last week and that was Praetorian Legion. Its almost to the point where you have to sent a diplomat out to the other factions to setup a game lol.

#90 patataman

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 11:41 PM

It's the other way around, you want every available player joining CW. Time is amazing, and turns news into veterans and bads into goods... as long as CW is still there.

If you want to promote grouping, repeat the LFG event. Turn it into a permanent event, 5 mc for a score above 80 pts and 5 extra if you are in a group. IMHO the big mistake in PGI events is the duration, they try to make us play for a week or weekend non stop and the week after the event everyone is burned out. While the only solution for the problem is making CW fun and interesting, i think this could help a bit.

#91 Lily from animove

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 12:16 AM

And you think forcing soloplayers to make a random 4 man group without any coordination and whatever will improve anything?

it won't

Also, what has having a unit to do with it? people will then just make nonsense mass units to join CW.

The issue of Solo's doing these low damage is people with no experience to play the game correctly, forcing them into a unit won't help this in first place. They will still find ways to join CW and playing as bad as before.

Edited by Lily from animove, 10 August 2015 - 12:21 AM.


#92 Havelock Vetinari

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 12:21 AM

A sensible compromise between the two general attitudes in this thread could be like this:

- create a general "join button" for CW - so you can chose not to join for a specific planet but generally for CW
- make some requirements for CW like "no trial mechs" or allowing only to bring mastered mechs into the fight
- reform matchmaking by never matching single players against (big) groups, like it is in conquest, etc. right now

With a general queue for CW, you could get more player interested by lowering waiting times. With more players in the queue it could be possible to prevent matching groups vs. single player PUGs - at least most of the time.
And with some basic requirements, you could prevent too inexperienced players and/or too bad mechs joining CW, which is good for everybody.

#93 Michal R

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 12:26 AM

Solo players must learn simple rules.
If you can't do 1000 dmg in 4 mechs in CW - don't play it.

Second rule.
If you bring LRM RVN to CW or others funny builds - don't play it.

#94 TWIAFU

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 03:27 AM

View PostMAX909, on 09 August 2015 - 05:51 PM, said:

solo not new, new player ? in a unit ?= happy new player winning games
new player trying to be a one man army in cw = dead cw



No, that's just a dead new player.

Just add huge ass warning box with a yes/no confirm to CW warning these new players and solo what hardships they will face when they CHOOSE to enter CW in the non-intended way.

We have to protect these delicate, unique snowflakes from ruining their gameplay and everyone elses by making uninformed choices. If they choose to enter CW after that, TS and suck it up.

#95 PFC Carsten

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 04:21 AM

View PostArmando, on 09 August 2015 - 12:01 AM, said:

[…]
SOLO PLAYERS SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO QUE FOR COMMUNITY WARFARE.
[…]
Thank you for your time.
- Armando


Great Idea. I suggest PGI should try this and see how CW fares with a ~500 players total worldwide.

#96 CMDR Sunset Shimmer

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 05:05 AM

@OP.

Go look at the original gameplay pillars of design for MWO.

One of the pillars revolves around "LONE WOLVES" and their place on the battlefield within CW.

so please, try again. Also stop being a hostile douche.

#97 RjBass3

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 05:20 AM

I really don't understand all of this. Why should solos be excluded? If they join a CW match without grouping up first then that is their fault. How hard is it to install Teamspeak (it's free) and get on their factions TS server to join a group? The answer is isn't hard, it's just that some pugs are so freaking lazy they can't be bothered by such things. Pugs just like anybody else should be allowed to play CW, and they should be allowed to choose how they play CW. They can do it right by getting on TS and grouping up or they can get stomped by going it alone.

Seriously here is a list of a ton of TS servers where people are often looking to join groups or groups are looking to fill slots. http://www.reddit.co...ory_cw_edition/

Edited by RjBass3, 10 August 2015 - 05:22 AM.


#98 Rahul Roy

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 06:28 AM

I am pretty sure a lot of solos join a match with no clue about CW. I have even seen people with no clue about MWO.

It is so easy, just a few clicks and you join a faction and then you start getting the call to arms messages, again a few clicks and you can be in a CW match.

You will even get a drop deck pre-populated with 4 trial mechs.

Really what I don't understand is anyone who argues for people with this level of newness to be thrown into CW.

Anyone with a clue about CW or who reads forums could still drop, solo or not. No solos allowed? Create you own unit (and never invite anyone so you are the only member). Not allowed to drop due to 12 singles? Get one of them and create an LFG. etc.

Edited by Rahul Roy, 10 August 2015 - 08:25 AM.


#99 nehebkau

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 06:52 AM

Wonder if PGI has ever considered adding something like a golf-handicap for pug teams that are fighting progressively larger pre-made teams?

#100 ice trey

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 07:25 AM

I'm perfectly happy joining and following a group, but I'm not at all interested in getting bogged down with following someone elses' schedule, especially if it means expecting me to show up for practice every week on a workday morning due to timezone limitations.

During Beta 1, I had a great old time dropping with all the various units for Kurita. I tried joining one of them, and that lasted a week, because they just weren't on the same page as I was. In fact, none of them ran things in a way I was comfortable with but one, and they upped and died. Instead, I was happy with just showing up during the peak period of US friday night (Japan Saturday Morning), going onto the Kurita Teamspeak, and hanging out in the LFG until someone needed their ranks filled out. Of course, it seems like none of the Kurita units are actively using the TS channel anymore - or at least, never when I'm on, so I can't do things the way I used to.

I've been told that I "Should make my own unit or shut up", but no, the responsibility of showing up every game and managing a hodgepodge of players with their internet machismo squabbles? Yeah, no thanks. That's just worse than joining a unit.

I just want a generic faction cue for the pugs. If there was one thing that playing as a 12 man that drove me up the wall, it was the fact that between every.single.drop, some guy had to go eat lunch, put their kids to bed, or something like that, meaning that you're left hanging with 11 players hoping desperately that there'll be the one pug that shows up so you can start to attack that world.

Right there, That's why we need pugs. However, it needs to be more automated, Instead of pugs just dropping somewhere and hoping for an opponent, a matchmaker needs to be installed so that pugs and small units (Lance or smaller) are assigned to a world automatically, and in order to pick which world you drop on, you must drop as at least a 5-man or larger unit. Further, the Match-maker would be best off warning any 12-man groups or large units when a world is being defended by a hodgepodge of pugs against 12-man units.

Further, the matchmaker can throw the glut of pugs against each other, especially on worlds that aren't actively being fought over, making the game more dynamic, and reducing the threat that they face a full 12-man.

Another option? Make 4-man games another possibility. Further divide up the planet from 15 slots to 45. Make a 4 on 4 match worth one slot. and a 12-on-12 worth 3. It's bound to make matches much easier to get, make starting a group easier to do, and small units more likely to get a chance to participate. The increased ease of making a group means that more players will try making a group, means the player base increases.

...but shunning pugs and lance-sized groups? There already is a mode for 12-on-12 units, called Private Matches. If CW is changed to only being able to support 12-man groups? it won't be a slow death. It will be almost instant, No pugs to farm means that even 12-mans will need to cross their fingers and hope to hell another 12-man, that JUST SO HAPPENS to be on a shared border, appears. This, of course, being only the proportion of 12-mans who chose to play CW, and not the lions share who just drop in the public cue because they don't give a rats' ass about CW.

Edited by ice trey, 10 August 2015 - 07:27 AM.






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