172 replies to this topic

[MechaBattler]

When they do ask for people's opinion on something. There are people who think it is stupid that they're asking the community. That them asking the community how the game should be is a sign of the incompetence.

They know they can't satisfy the diverse group of people here. They do listen. But they can't change development on the fly because of what we say. Or undo work they'd already put resources into because it didn't satisfy everyone.

Edited by MechaBattler, 11 August 2015 - 08:41 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MechaBattler, on 11 August 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

When they do ask for people's opinion on something. There are people who think it is stupid that they're asking the community. That them asking the community how the game should be is a sign of the incompetence.

They know they can't satisfy the diverse group of people here. But they do listen. But they can't change development on the fly because of what we say. Or undo work they'd already put resources into because it didn't satisfy everyone.

plus since no 3 people on here can agree on ANYTHING, just what pearls of wisdom are PGI supposed to drop everything to respond to and follow.... since no matter what they do, someone else will cry just as loudly it's wrong, lol.

[Hotthedd]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 August 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

plus since no 3 people on here can agree on ANYTHING, just what pearls of wisdom are PGI supposed to drop everything to respond to and follow.... since no matter what they do, someone else will cry just as loudly it's wrong, lol.

Just mine. Then I'd be a happy camper.

[MechaBattler]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 August 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

plus since no 3 people on here can agree on ANYTHING, just what pearls of wisdom are PGI supposed to drop everything to respond to and follow.... since no matter what they do, someone else will cry just as loudly it's wrong, lol.

Exactly. They tried to ask for a solution to the ECM problem. People could not agree. So nothing came of it. If they choose what a handful of people came up with. The other groups would start a riot. Even though some of them claim they would be cool with whatever.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 August 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

yet even when PGI did post a lot, all they got was crap shoveled in their faces, and the forums were full of one sided posts, because anything PGI said was ignored, or called lies.

There's plenty of one sided points to ignore, but legitimate criticism had been ignored for longer periods of time.

If anything, a lot of what PGI has been saying recently is to sell something, instead of having an honest and extended discussion about some of the actual things that are broken in the game.

If you believe they are being unfair, you should really look at the other side that was trying to be fair about it, and was routinely ignored. This is how you create growing antagonism when you don't actively and actually discuss stuff in detail (being vague only serves to draw any imaginable conclusion).

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 11 August 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

There's plenty of one sided points to ignore, but legitimate criticism had been ignored for longer periods of time.

If anything, a lot of what PGI has been saying recently is to sell something, instead of having an honest and extended discussion about some of the actual things that are broken in the game.

If you believe they are being unfair, you should really look at the other side that was trying to be fair about it, and was routinely ignored. This is how you create growing antagonism when you don't actively and actually discuss stuff in detail (being vague only serves to draw any imaginable conclusion).

what you say is true.... from a certain point of view.


Which is the problem with most of these complaints and posts, and even with PGI. It simply ain't black and white. And even many "legit" posts are contestable, TBH.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 August 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

plus since no 3 people on here can agree on ANYTHING, just what pearls of wisdom are PGI supposed to drop everything to respond to and follow.... since no matter what they do, someone else will cry just as loudly it's wrong, lol.

Well, I can probably find 2 other people that agree with me on a few things.

Unfortunately, we would be referenced as an "echo chamber", so it's never going to be endorsed by the community or anything of the sorts.

I care a bit more about the core aspects - the minutia would be better by someone else (I'm never going to be able to cover everything thoroughly, trying to address other things that would not be considered as important, but appeal to a certain demographic).

The thing is, it's not hard to find 3 people that vouch for totally different sides of the spectrum... and people really don't have the same core opinions on things, so while I don't think it is necessarily the fault of people, PGI has provided no direction or reference point to start from before having a discussion.

Every single time there's a PTS, I don't ever remember reading a "what are we looking for" PTS post, so obviously the kinds of reports generated very often do not reflect what is being looked at.

When you have no direction, you cannot figure out the parameters.

That's why these conversations never progress beyond their initial stages.

I don't have a problem with "undecided" things in my own arguments (eventually I'll have to figure out which benefits everyone, not just myself), but when the things are laid out as much as possible (I've tried to do that whenever I can), then it's much easier to tweak and adjust things.


TL;DR
So, it is what it is, and to blame the userbase for these things, is an error. PGI's lack of direction is the primary culprit when a discussion about a certain/any topic arises w/o back-and-forth feedback generates and provides little to no productive discussion on the forums.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 August 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

ah, the Island Syndrome, i see.........

Are you serious?

Sometimes my ideas are on an island (my 8 suggestions to improve MWO got buried, but I guess that's the norm), but I've tried to be out of the box at times.

I'm not trying to use the "echo chamber" as an excuse.... it's more that if people didn't like us anyways, we'd just end up as "more noise" to the forums. People have their thoughts of who would best represent the community, and who they pick can be diametrically opposed to each other.. so if you'd ever think or want a decent debate (minus some of the rabble), these things could be had w/o a flame war (well, hopefully).

At this point, PGI has kind of killed off any possibly of them (these people have left and/or have stopped playing the game altogether) with certain "factions" that aren't willing to open their minds a little (it's any subfaction that doesn't totally agree with even a basic premise).

I see other games that blow my mind... this one gets depressing over time.

It could be my cynicism on overdrive or partly complete indifference to the matter (CW? probably not playing that much).

TL;DR
It is what it is, and if I'm on an island.. it's because the Titanic didn't need me. That's OK... there's plenty of icebergs to live on!

[Vandul]

Wanna know why they dont read the forums?

Every week/day its the same old thing. Let me give you an example.

LRMS/Matchmaker/Convergence/TTK/Jump Jets/Ammo amounts/Scaling/Dynamic Weapons/Cant swap engines in Clan mechs/Cant remove flamers or heatsinks in clan mechs/IS needs XL engines/ROF/Ghost Heat/Hidden geometry in maps/ELO/Teak Killing/Talking after dying/Paulconomy/PGI is on a money grab/Mech Packs/CW is broke/HSR/Oceanic Servers/ECM woes/Map Rotation/Trash Talking/3p POV/New player experience/Steam release/mech geometry/nobody from PGI reads the forums...

I think that covers it.

[Praehotec8]

What exactly, should PGI respond to? Most threads are complaints, some of which are downright offensive towards the developers, and even the legitimate posts for game changes are generally not worth discussing -

Sorry, but the majority of "improvement" ideas I see posted would make the game worse, and many seem to directly oppose actually having fun. (obviously subjective, but as Bishop says, it is hard to get 3 people on the forum to agree about anything!)

[Vandul]

Praehotec8, on 11 August 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

What exactly, should PGI respond to? Most threads are complaints, some of which are downright offensive towards the developers, and even the legitimate posts for game changes are generally not worth discussing -

Sorry, but the majority of "improvement" ideas I see posted would make the game worse, and many seem to directly oppose actually having fun. (obviously subjective, but as Bishop says, it is hard to get 3 people on the forum to agree about anything!)

I agree with you. Maybe if Bishop does, we can have a consensus.

[Alexander Garden]

It's true that we tend to read a lot more than we reply, but we do read the forums regularly. Speaking for myself, I'm nearing 900 posts since September. Looking at my tabs right now I have 12 forum tabs open (yes I need to manage my tabs better...).

Tina created the Developer Outreach sub-forum a little while ago, which has seen threads from Tina, our IT Manager Mike Forst, and our previous Network Architect Jon Cunningham. There's a thread running over there right now compiling questions for Dennis de Koning, our Art Director. The Champion 'Mech Re-Builds were compiled there, and were read by the design team. The 'Mech Re-Scale threads are likewise being tracked by the art department.

Myself, the QA team, and our new TSR Bobby Jubraj read the patch feedback forum every day, throughout the day.

The MechLab PTS forum generated a lot of discussion among the players who participated, all of which was read by us and discussed internally. You can see a lot of that feedback has been integrated or accounted for in some way, with more improvements still planned based on forum and ticket feedback.

Thad Jantzi (Level Designer) has poked his head into a few map discussions in the past. Brian Windover (Lead Engineer) makes rare appearances in the patch feedback forum now and then, likewise for Neema Teymory (Senior Engineer). Matt Newman (Producer) can usually be seen in Announcement threads. Beyond their posts, all of those people, and many other members on the team, read the forum regularly.

[Juodas Varnas]

Alexander Garden, on 11 August 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

It's true that we tend to read a lot more than we reply, but we do read the forums regularly. Speaking for myself, I'm nearing 900 posts since September. Looking at my tabs right now I have 12 forum tabs open (yes I need to manage my tabs better...).

Tina created the Developer Outreach sub-forum a little while ago, which has seen threads from Tina, our IT Manager Mike Forst, and our previous Network Architect Jon Cunningham. There's a thread running over there right now compiling questions for Dennis de Koning, our Art Director. The Champion 'Mech Re-Builds were compiled there, and were read by the design team. The 'Mech Re-Scale threads are likewise being tracked by the art department.

Myself, the QA team, and our new TSR Bobby Jubraj read the patch feedback forum every day, throughout the day.

The MechLab PTS forum generated a lot of discussion among the players who participated, all of which was read by us and discussed internally. You can see a lot of that feedback has been integrated or accounted for in some way, with more improvements still planned based on forum and ticket feedback.

Thad Jantzi (Level Designer) has poked his head into a few map discussions in the past. Brian Windover (Lead Engineer) makes rare appearances in the patch feedback forum now and then, likewise for Neema Teymory (Senior Engineer). Matt Newman (Producer) can usually be seen in Announcement threads. Beyond their posts, all of those people, and many other members on the team, read the forum regularly.

I guess that'd be /thread.

[Bishop Steiner]

Oops! Busted!

Perhaps the OP should be "They don't instantly do everything the Forums QQ about (regardless of how conflicting and pointless most of the QQ is!) sO pgi DOESN'T LISTEN TO US!

Juodas Varnas, on 11 August 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

I guess that'd be /thread.

ya think?

But because this is internet QQ? It won't be. Count on it!

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 11 August 2015 - 09:56 AM.

[Ascaloth]

Alexander Garden, on 11 August 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

It's true that we tend to read a lot more than we reply, but we do read the forums regularly. Speaking for myself, I'm nearing 900 posts since September. Looking at my tabs right now I have 12 forum tabs open (yes I need to manage my tabs better...).

Tina created the Developer Outreach sub-forum a little while ago, which has seen threads from Tina, our IT Manager Mike Forst, and our previous Network Architect Jon Cunningham. There's a thread running over there right now compiling questions for Dennis de Koning, our Art Director. The Champion 'Mech Re-Builds were compiled there, and were read by the design team. The 'Mech Re-Scale threads are likewise being tracked by the art department.

Myself, the QA team, and our new TSR Bobby Jubraj read the patch feedback forum every day, throughout the day.

The MechLab PTS forum generated a lot of discussion among the players who participated, all of which was read by us and discussed internally. You can see a lot of that feedback has been integrated or accounted for in some way, with more improvements still planned based on forum and ticket feedback.

Thad Jantzi (Level Designer) has poked his head into a few map discussions in the past. Brian Windover (Lead Engineer) makes rare appearances in the patch feedback forum now and then, likewise for Neema Teymory (Senior Engineer). Matt Newman (Producer) can usually be seen in Announcement threads. Beyond their posts, all of those people, and many other members on the team, read the forum regularly.

Well done

[Shae Starfyre]

Juodas Varnas, on 11 August 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

I guess that'd be /thread.

It also brings up a good point; why would general discussion be the first, if ever, forum area to read by the company? It contains to many divergent realities to focus on...

... Squirrel.

[Tina Benoit]

Always watching you!

[Lugh]

Tina Benoit, on 11 August 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

Always watching you!

Big Sister is watching. She does not appear to be amused

[Juodas Varnas]

Tina Benoit, on 11 August 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

Always watching you!

[Ascaloth]

Tina Benoit, on 11 August 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

Always watching you!

NO!! I'll hide in ma' cockpit