230 replies to this topic

[Kodyn]

oneproduct, on 16 August 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

Women didn't use to be allowed to vote. Gays didn't used to be able to have their marriage recognized.

Sometimes you have to questions rules and determine if things should change.

You cannot defend something just by saying "because it's like this, it should stay like this."

I'm not saying that I think macros are a problem, but you have to let people discuss it and at least try to take any legitimate arguments they might have seriously.

Lol, oh god, I wish you knew me better....I hate authority, and I question everything, all the time. I don't follow rules for the sake of rules, only if they make sense.

The only reason I agree that this is a dead/troll thread is because it's pointless in this case to discuss, for the reasons already brought up-Can't be detected, doesn't hurt anyone except those in tinfoil headwear, and most of the people arguing here are arguing the semantics of the word "cheat" rather than the actual effect macros have on MWO, which is to say, virtually none.

It's really, really hard to take this topic seriously any more. Like, harder than women voters

[Scout Derek]

Going to ask you guys to calm down a little bit, and please keep on the topic, thank you!

[L3mming2]

Aetes Nakatomi, on 16 August 2015 - 08:45 AM, said:

I use macros via VoiceAttack to control things like MASC, night vison toggle, zooming in and out, override toggle, thermal vison toggle, ECM toggle, chain weapon toggle, target lock and module activation. I do not use it or my G19S for weapons firing, not because I have some weird moral code about how I should or shouldn't explode other peoples imaginary digital robots, but because I cannot be bothered to go though each mech and set up endless macros for each of my 150+ mechs (over two accounts).

I use VoiceAttack because in Elite Dangerous I found controlling the ship systems to be more fun and immersive using voice, that directly translated to MWO. Sometimes the macros actually hamper me, sometimes they are slower than a key press, sometimes I forget the command I set up, sometimes I cough and it thinks I said shutdown (actually happened once).

Although my macros are not always direct combat advantages I personally do not see them as any better or worse than other people spending the time to make weapon macros. Its not like we all have comparable PCs, internet connections, keyboards, mice or monitors so it is never going to be a fair playing field. How I see it, macros are not against the rules so its fine by me.

that sounds so awsome!!
is the program free to download?? i would realy like to use that

[Escef]

Flash Frame, on 16 August 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

Frame it however you want, IT IS STILL CHEATING.

Cheating is doing something against the rules. As PGI allows it, it CAN NOT be cheating.

As for the fact that it FEELS LIKE cheating to you, your feelings and $2.50 will get you an extra-large at the Dunkin' Donuts up the street, guess if the feelings or the money is the important one.

[Aetes Nakatomi]

L3mming2, on 16 August 2015 - 08:53 AM, said:

that sounds so awsome!!
is the program free to download?? i would realy like to use that

Just search VoiceAttack, it is free to trial but costs something like $8 if I remember correctly. it does take a while to set up. Mine is so complex now, that I have VoiceAttack respond to me with sound prompts. For example if I attempt to turn on thermal optics and already have it on I get the prompt 'Error, thermal optics already activated'.

[Kira Onime]

If macros are cheating then my mouse with rebind-able buttons is cheating as well.

[L3mming2]

Aetes Nakatomi, on 16 August 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

Just search VoiceAttack, it is free to trial but costs something like $8 if I remember correctly. it does take a while to set up. Mine is so complex now, that I have VoiceAttack respond to me with sound prompts. For example if I attempt to turn on thermal optics and already have it on I get the prompt 'Error, thermal optics already activated'.

ooo that so nice, i do wonder wat my gf reaction will be when she suddenly hears me scream " OVERRIDE OVERIDE!!!"

[Mechteric]

It's been proven that macros lower your DPS when used with multiple ACs. Get over it.

[Mystere]

oneproduct, on 16 August 2015 - 05:19 AM, said:

Everyone understands that PGI has said that macros are okay. The point of this thread is to discuss macros and whether or not PGI should consider changing their ruling.

Lets say you have a mech with 12 MLs. MLs have ghost heat at 6. Ideally you'd want to fire 6, wait 0.5 seconds then fire the other 6.

There are three outcomes:
1. You fire slightly before 0.5 seconds, in which case you literally kill yourself because of ghost heat.
2. You fire slightly after 0.5 seconds, in which case it takes you a longer period of time than necessary to deal your damage.
3. You fire after exactly 0.5 seconds, which is optimal.

#3 is essentially impossible for a human, and the closer you get to #3, the closer you get to killing yourself by accidentally doing #1.

Should high-end graphics cards be banned? They provide an advantage over cheap slow cards.

Should wide high-resolution displays be banned? They provide an advantage over cheap low-resolution monitors.

Should gaming keyboards, especially those with fast response mechanical keys, be banned? They are a clear advantage over cheap vanilla ones.

Should gaming peripherals like the G13 be banned? Their customization options are a clear advantage over keyboards.

Should new high-end PCs be banned? They are a clear advantage over five year old clunkers.





I suspect this thread is just another manufactured whine fest whose sole purpose is to make PGI weak-kneed.

[Mystere]

Damien Tokala, on 16 August 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

Whatever weed you smoking, I'll take a hit of that, because if you pay attention to rhythm, and the little red bar, and those colored boxes on your reticle, you can pull it off juuuuust fine.

Heck, a high-resolution and high-speed camera, or any screen grabber, coupled with a custom device driver that emulates mouse or keyboard keys will do the job better. All the player needs to do is momentarily put the reticule on target.

[Mystere]

oneproduct, on 16 August 2015 - 05:45 AM, said:

@Hotthedd
You're missing the point.

We know that PGI said it's okay, we're questioning whether or not that stance should change.

Laws can change, otherwise women wouldn't be able to vote.

Equating the morally repugnant subjugation, disenfranchisement, discrimination, and virtual enslavement of women by male chauvinistic societies to the use of macros is classy, very classy.

[Mystere]

oneproduct, on 16 August 2015 - 05:55 AM, said:

All I'm asking is for you to acknowledge that a tiny bit of human error, 0.49 seconds instead of 0.5, can have severe, negative effects due to ghost heat being a game mechanic, and that the use of macros allows you to avoid this. My argument then stems from the point that this can potentially be seen as an unfair advantage. Whether or not it is unfair is not my decision.

People seem to think it's hard to hide a macro by adding a random 0-0.1 second deviation from the timing, and another 0.01-0.05 second deviation 5-10% of the time. ...

Edited by Mystere, 16 August 2015 - 11:19 AM.

[Mystere]

Fate 6, on 16 August 2015 - 06:45 AM, said:

I can run the game at 60fps, am I a cheater compared to someone who only runs at 30fps?

Then I am a huge cheat in comparison because I run the game at 120+ FPS.

[LordNothing]

in that video all i see is a mech firing weapons way too fast for its heat capacity and shutting down every 3 seconds. this macro is apparently designed to help the player commit suicide.

[Mystere]

Mors Draco, on 16 August 2015 - 06:45 AM, said:

I use a Naga mouse and a G710 keyboard, both programmed with macros. I have nerve damage in my left hand and often lose complete sensation in that hand and have to switch to my profiles on both devices that allows me to use 4 of the "G" keys on the keyboard mouse to control all my firing and consumables because they are the only buttons i can detect by feel without fat fingering my keyboard with my "dead" left hand and use the 1-12 keys on my mouse to control movement speed, zoom, armlock toggle etc. Without macroing things I wouldn't be able to play. So call it a cheat, or a crutch or whatever...just understand that some people need that "crutch" and im actually at a major disadvantage when i have to switch to playing that way.

Just my 2 c-bills.

You do not have to justify yourself to these incessant whiners. They are here to make everyone feel guilty for using them, and PGI for allowing their use in the first place.

Keep using them as you wish.

[bad arcade kitty]

Mystere, on 16 August 2015 - 02:08 AM, said:

No, but but using one of these just might be:




"Look Mama, no hands!" <little maniacal >

i visited their site, it has a semi-erotic pic of some naked black dude on the main page of that epoc system... what do they sell again

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 16 August 2015 - 11:26 AM.

[LordNothing]

i have a few theories about how to do some really nasty macros with an arduino emulating a keyboard. i dont do them because i dont want my account to be banned.

things not limited to:
dialable dps, cycle weapons at a speed defined by a trim pot (laser machine guns)
quad/dual gauss cycling with alternating phase so that a gauss rifle or two are always ready to fire.
group cycling
automatic overheat (suicide)
high heat alpha management things like simultaneous use of cool shot timed to make an otherwise impossible alpha possible, or timed shutdown to make a suicide shot less suicidal

i should also point out that every one of those is possible manually with good rythm.

[Hotthedd]

Mystere, on 16 August 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

Equating the morally repugnant subjugation, disenfranchisement, discrimination, and virtual enslavement of women by male chauvinistic societies to the use of macros is classy, very classy.

IKR?

Macros is serious business.

[bad arcade kitty]

why would you need some arduino for those, i suppose https://en.wikipedia...corder_software can do it too, and they afaik were explicitly permitted

[LordNothing]

there are universal control configuration utilities that can do the same job, like glove pie, or the newer (and maintained by a less insane coder) freepie. these are pretty nifty, they can take input from almost any input device and map it to almost any other emulated device.

pretty sure ch control center can do it with its cms environment, has cool features like timers and whatnot. however i only use the throttle and have all my weapons mapped to the mouse and i would need to do a serious remap of my controls to try it. they do sell a multi function panel, which is kind of a customization control panel (it has stick on buttons which are pretty cool) you can configure for various games.

iwith my mad electronics skills i can build my own panel from scratch. it would be nice to have an 'all the missiles' button. arduino leo (or a teensy) gives you everything you need to create your own usb hid devices. its not really emulation, its using actual usb protocols so the computer doesn't know the thing plugged into it isnt a keyboard. its probibly overkill for the job of running macros (written in c++), but its a thing i understand well.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 August 2015 - 12:22 PM.