377 replies to this topic

[Vlad Ward]

Kjudoon, on 22 August 2015 - 12:53 AM, said:

Actually i am not getting too heated. I am an intense and passionate person though with a very good command of the vulgar ergot.

A long history studying sociology, religion, anthropology, history and politics out of personal interests has made me accutely aware of subtle contextual manipulations in communifation. Drives some people nuts but stops a lot of people running games cold.

Everyone has their own context bias and view. It is best to give people freedom to go their own direction.

That's great. I applaud you for it. It looked from this end like you got a tad defensive about formal education. I'm glad to see you were just proactively establishing your own credibility as a super intelligent smart person who knows all about what I'm thinking right now.

Triordinant, on 22 August 2015 - 12:59 AM, said:

That means my 3 queue solution is still the best IF there's a population explosion due to Steam.

What if I am a steam player with more than 3 league of legends buddies?

Edited by Vlad Ward, 22 August 2015 - 01:06 AM.

[Kjudoon]

If you look Tri... I proposed thd 3 queue solution around July 2014.





Meh... What do i care as long as they do it finally.

[Vlad Ward]

Yokaiko, on 22 August 2015 - 01:00 AM, said:

I would love to see that where exactly you get that idea from?

You when I saw a mass exodus from my friends list? When they forced the 1-4 and 8 man groups. A few came back when they got over that ridiculousness.

Oh my god, so much this. The original 3-queue split killed so many units it's not even funny.

[Kjudoon]

That would then be for CW or thr "company" 5plus queue with the ability for the solo and lance queue to opt in.

[Triordinant]

Vlad Ward, on 22 August 2015 - 01:06 AM, said:

What if I am a steam player with more than 3 league of legends buddies?

And they're ALL on at the same time? Russ Bullocks says only 7% of all group drops are groups of 5 or more. Even if a whole quarter of the MWO population dropped in groups, that would be less than 2% of the MWO population. It rarely happens. If someone has to be inconvenienced, it better be the 2% rather than everyone else.

[Vlad Ward]

Steam is a totally different beast from MWO's existing playerbase. Those guys actually have friends and ****. Well, friends who play video games at least.

[Johnny Z]

Vlad Ward, on 22 August 2015 - 01:12 AM, said:

Steam is a totally different beast from MWO's existing playerbase. Those guys actually have friends and ****. Well, friends who play video games at least.

This sounds alot like a goon statement. Arent goons supposed to be a bit more stealthy?

Edited by Johnny Z, 22 August 2015 - 01:17 AM.

[Triordinant]

Vlad Ward, on 22 August 2015 - 01:12 AM, said:

Steam is a totally different beast from MWO's existing playerbase. Those guys actually have friends and ****. Well, friends who play video games at least.

We can't assume ****. We can only work with the numbers Russ and his associates give us. Everything else is speculation.

Edited by Triordinant, 22 August 2015 - 01:18 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Triordinant, on 22 August 2015 - 01:17 AM, said:

We can't assume ****. We can only work with the numbers Russ and his associates give us.

Yeah except PGI almost never gives out hard numbers, and when they do they aren't full data sets so that you are still guessing.

Johnny Z, on 22 August 2015 - 01:17 AM, said:

This sounds alot like a goon statement. Arent goons supposed to be a bit more stealthy?

You would be incorrect, Vlad isn't a Goon, for the most part they have no real presence in MWO anymore having deemed this game stupid.

....and its not an assumption, steam, players generally run in packs over multiple games

On of the gaming communities I goof around with has about 25 titles in its TS lists, you can watch us bouncing game "Ok, this is lame, lets play this game"

Edited by Yokaiko, 22 August 2015 - 01:21 AM.

[Kjudoon]

The three queue solution still works.

Solo queue : single players only. Best psr matches due to individual matching.
Lance queue : groups of 2 to 4 with the OPT IN capability for solo players. Small groups minimize psr mismatches
Company queue: 5plus with OPT IN availeable for solo and lance queues. Welcome to the Thunderdome.

Allows any size group... Just like CW. Balances well with locked or semi locked tier psr. Gives flexibility to those who want a challenge and the shelter of the solo queue.

That is how a 3 aueue solution works. Its only problem? You need a larger player population than what we have.

[Triordinant]

Yokaiko, on 22 August 2015 - 01:18 AM, said:

Yeah except PGI almost never gives out hard numbers, and when they do they aren't full data sets so that you are still guessing.

Russ' numbers from the latest Town Hall and the one in February are hard numbers. That's all I need to make an airtight case.

[Vlad Ward]

Johnny Z, on 22 August 2015 - 01:17 AM, said:

This sounds alot like a goon statement. Arent goons supposed to be a bit more stealthy?

Wait are you accusing me of being a goon? Seriously?

Have I really been gone from GD that long?

[Yokaiko]

Triordinant, on 22 August 2015 - 01:20 AM, said:

Russ' numbers from the latest Town Hall and the one in February are hard numbers. That's all I need to make an airtight case.

Ok so what numbers? The last time I saw anything with an numbers was the Thukyyaid event.

[Vlad Ward]

Kjudoon, on 22 August 2015 - 01:19 AM, said:

The three queue solution still works.

Solo queue : single players only. Best psr matches due to individual matching.
Lance queue : groups of 2 to 4 with the OPT IN capability for solo players. Small groups minimize psr mismatches
Company queue: 5plus with OPT IN availeable for solo and lance queues. Welcome to the Thunderdome.

Allows any size group... Just like CW. Balances well with locked or semi locked tier psr. Gives flexibility to those who want a challenge and the shelter of the solo queue.

That is how a 3 aueue solution works. Its only problem? You need a larger player population than what we have.

Waaaaaaaaaay higher population, yes.

The number 1 problem with the existing group queue is lack of population. The whole point of merging it with a stable, PSR rated solo queue is to increase the population of both queues. This will benefit both casual players who want to group but can't now without being stomped and solo players who will get overall better matches because higher population always results in better matches, it's MM 101.

Even if the group monster buffs people up higher than they should be, PSR will take that into account and fix their ratings over time. Besides, none of this is meant to take effect tomorrow. Just talking about it now means we might hear something about it 6 months from now in a town hall. PSR will have already evened out quite a bit by then.

[Triordinant]

Yokaiko, on 22 August 2015 - 01:23 AM, said:

Ok so what numbers? The last time I saw anything with an numbers was the Thukyyaid event.

During the height of CW last February, Russ stated that only 13.5% of all activity on MWO servers was taking place in CW and he was okay with that. That number has surely gone down. The reason most cited by soloists for staying away from CW was having to fight against groups and Russ was also okay with that because CW was a "hardcore" mode specifically designed for organized groups. The last Town Hall was when he stated only 7% of all group drops had 5 or more people and since group drops are a minority of all drops (5% to 20% depending who you ask) the percentage of the entire MWO population dropping in groups of 5 or more are a mere fraction of that 7%.

EDIT: the Town Hall records are open for all to see.

Edited by Triordinant, 22 August 2015 - 01:36 AM.

[Kjudoon]

The problem is you are making a 1 size fits almost none bracket. You cannot dictate to players how they enjoy the game which is what you are doing for the sake of a small minority.

This will be even more harmful to the game.

I dont play with friends because the experience is do sour to me no amount of hanging out changes it. There are many people i know like this. They used to be in teams and quit them to play solo only on occasion rather than their former dedicated play because they got sick of their face being kicked in day in and out.

Your solution just makes that worse.

[Triordinant]

Vlad Ward, on 22 August 2015 - 01:24 AM, said:

The number 1 problem with the existing group queue is lack of population. The whole point of merging it with a stable, PSR rated solo queue is to increase the population of both queues. .

Give players the choice. If soloists DON'T want to play with groups, DON'T force them. It HAS to be optional.

[Vlad Ward]

Kjudoon, on 22 August 2015 - 01:34 AM, said:

The problem is you are making a 1 size fits almost none bracket. You cannot dictate to players how they enjoy the game which is what you are doing for the sake of a small minority.

This will be even more harmful to the game.

I dont play with friends because the experience is do sour to me no amount of hanging out changes it. There are many people i know like this. They used to be in teams and quit them to play solo only on occasion rather than their former dedicated play because they got sick of their face being kicked in day in and out.

Your solution just makes that worse.

Er... I'm not dictating to other people how to play or enjoy the game. No one is being forced to join a group. Saying "I don't want to play with any of these kinds of people on my team" seems a tad less awesome, if you ask me.

Triordinant, on 22 August 2015 - 01:35 AM, said:

Give players the choice. If soloists DON'T want to play with groups, DON'T force them. It HAS to be optional.

I wouldn't even care to be honest. Go ahead and add another check box to the launch UI. Faster, better matched games are faster, better matched games. If some people don't like playing around those kinds of Mechwarrior fans, who am I to argue?

Edited by Vlad Ward, 22 August 2015 - 01:48 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Triordinant, on 22 August 2015 - 01:35 AM, said:

Give players the choice. If soloists DON'T want to play with groups, DON'T force them. It HAS to be optional.

Meh, I never understood this. There is no single player mode, there IS going to be a group of enemies and there IS going to be a group of teammates. Never really cared one way or the other, a group on the other side doesn't mean an auto-win, never did I've beaten 12 mans with pure pugs in CW and in what is now the pub queue back when it was 8 man.

I never understood all of the rabid anti-team sentiment in a competitive team based arena shooter hell I would drop solo in the team queue if they would let, it raises the odds that someone on my team has bought clue.

......because I swear watching people hide from LRM on frigging caustic makes me crazy.

Edited by Yokaiko, 22 August 2015 - 01:47 AM.

[Triordinant]

Vlad Ward, on 22 August 2015 - 01:42 AM, said:

I wouldn't even care to be honest. Go ahead and add another check box to the launch UI. Faster, better matched games are faster, better matched games. If some people don't like playing around those kinds of Mechwarrior fans, who am I to argue?

All you have to do is give soloists the option to join the group queue. PGI could do it tomorrow. Just leave the solo queue exactly the way it is.