377 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

Vlad, Yokako, and pBiggz stop posting here it will be great when they want to play with friends they make in solo queue and they find out there is no one in group queue anymore. Only then will they understand gaming with friends.

[Aresye]

Kjudoon, on 23 August 2015 - 01:41 AM, said:

Lets try to keep the frantic and unbelievable hyperbole to a minimum shall we?

Wow dude. Look in the freaking mirror.

Btw, what ever happened to your, "VOIP and the impending Lord of the Flies," scenario, where VOIP would bring a game-breaking overload of vulgar, sexual, immature adult behavior?

I only ask because I have yet to hear a single player abusing VOIP in any of the ways you assured us "WILL" happen if VOIP got implemented.

So in the sake of ensuring quality discussion, just wanted to point out that the last time you worked up a storm just like you're doing in this thread, you were 100%, flat out WRONG in what would happen.

[Chados]

Kjudoon, on 23 August 2015 - 01:23 AM, said:

Vlad you can have your no lrm queue when i get clan mechs out of the game.

Guys....plenty of LRM-hate threads out there. Yeah, I'm a LRM pilot. I don't apologize for it. They are as viable a weapon as any other, and have their own strengths and weaknesses.

[engage silly "my way or the highway" rant mode]

From my perspective as a missile carrier, no other weapon in the game has so many counters and so many obstacles to its use, from th 180 meter minimum range and 1000 meter hard max range, to the ECM-blanketed meta tryhard sniper cowards hill-humping a kilometer and a half away, and ECM-covered backstabbing light mechs who who cringe at the thought of a straight up face to face honorable fight and instead creep up behind you with impunity because Seismic Sensor is expensive in Cbills and GXP and hard to get (I'm looking at YOU and your Raven, beloved husband), to maps with lots of overhead cover specifically to give the opposition places to hide from me, to other LRM carriers who want to engage in counterbattery fights (darn Clanners!). For a weapon that supposedly sucks so much, there is a lot of effort focused on countering it and an awful lot of Mad Cats and Vultures out there packing it.

[disengage silly "my way or the highway" rant mode]

By the way, it seems like eight of the other eleven mechs I drop with in just about every drop are Clan tech. Anyone else see that? Sometimes I'm the only IS mech on the field. That's real surrealistic when it happens. It's like being in the middle of some sort of trashborn rite of passage or something. I'm thinking of buying a Gargoyle just to fit in.

If you all get a "no LRMs" option, I would want a "no advanced zoom" and "no light mechs" option. But all that would kill the game too. The reality is that different people approach the game differently, and overcoming the counters to your playstyle is part of the game, and an integral part of it. LRM haters have to load ECM and stick close under the blanket, and find cover. Hill-humpers can get nailed by LRMs on Caustic Valley or in the cities or on FC, or even in Tourmaline Desert when they think they are in cover but aren't. LRM carriers have to stick with their teams, use terrain masking to get close enough to unload on the snipers, and pack secondary weapons to deal with the lights. The reality of the MWO battlefield is that we have LRMs and ECM and advanced zoom and the Arctic Cheetah, and that's a combat simulation, guys. No one gets a break.

Except the 228th. They make their own breaks.

[C E Dwyer]

People that don't want to play against groups would simply stop playing the game and go play something else.

The days of 48hour raids, and where people had a choice of Everquest, Ultima online, and camelot or whatever it was called, are long gone

I should have read more of this as I see this thread has already devolved into a really really mature, this game should be group only, the solo underhive have ruined it, my Tier is better than your tier crap shoot.

F.F.S. grow up

Edited by Cathy, 23 August 2015 - 07:34 AM.

[Imperius]

Chados, on 23 August 2015 - 07:17 AM, said:

Guys....plenty of LRM-hate threads out there. Yeah, I'm a LRM pilot. I don't apologize for it. They are as viable a weapon as any other, and have their own strengths and weaknesses.

[engage silly "my way or the highway" rant mode]

From my perspective as a missile carrier, no other weapon in the game has so many counters and so many obstacles to its use, from th 180 meter minimum range and 1000 meter hard max range, to the ECM-blanketed meta tryhard sniper cowards hill-humping a kilometer and a half away, and ECM-covered backstabbing light mechs who who cringe at the thought of a straight up face to face honorable fight and instead creep up behind you with impunity because Seismic Sensor is expensive in Cbills and GXP and hard to get (I'm looking at YOU and your Raven, beloved husband), to maps with lots of overhead cover specifically to give the opposition places to hide from me, to other LRM carriers who want to engage in counterbattery fights (darn Clanners!). For a weapon that supposedly sucks so much, there is a lot of effort focused on countering it and an awful lot of Mad Cats and Vultures out there packing it.

[disengage silly "my way or the highway" rant mode]

By the way, it seems like eight of the other eleven mechs I drop with in just about every drop are Clan tech. Anyone else see that? Sometimes I'm the only IS mech on the field. That's real surrealistic when it happens. It's like being in the middle of some sort of trashborn rite of passage or something. I'm thinking of buying a Gargoyle just to fit in.

If you all get a "no LRMs" option, I would want a "no advanced zoom" and "no light mechs" option. But all that would kill the game too. The reality is that different people approach the game differently, and overcoming the counters to your playstyle is part of the game, and an integral part of it. LRM haters have to load ECM and stick close under the blanket, and find cover. Hill-humpers can get nailed by LRMs on Caustic Valley or in the cities or on FC, or even in Tourmaline Desert when they think they are in cover but aren't. LRM carriers have to stick with their teams, use terrain masking to get close enough to unload on the snipers, and pack secondary weapons to deal with the lights. The reality of the MWO battlefield is that we have LRMs and ECM and advanced zoom and the Arctic Cheetah, and that's a combat simulation, guys. No one gets a break.

Except the 228th. They make their own breaks.

LRM only pilots are awful and a loss to the team, for each LRM boat you have you're down that many people.

[Mycrus]

Vlad Ward, on 21 August 2015 - 10:16 PM, said:

I feel that the group-only queue has outlived its usefulness in 3052 Mechwarrior Online.

When the segregation between Group and Solo queues was originally implemented, MWO was running with a version 1.0 matchmaker without all the bells and whistles we have today. New players were running up against groups of 8-12 players in coordinated builds on teamspeak together and getting facerolled. No one wanted to keep playing when they knew they could drop into a match only to see 12 AS7-D-DCs rolling up over the ledge in Frozen City.

There is no longer any real danger of this happening today.

With the implementation of 3/3/3/3, it is no longer possible for large groups to strongarm their way through solo players and smaller groups by throwing 12 Assaults or 12 Lights at them. Even if one team contains a 12-man and the other a smattering of smaller groups/solos, neither team will be vastly outweighed by the other.

Likewise, the successful implementation of in-game VOIP has negated the tactical advantage of groups being able to communicate via Teamspeak. Now, anyone can call targets or spot enemies without being forced to type while dodging autocannon rounds.

Most importantly, the implementation of PSR will help dramatically with ensuring that teams consist of players of roughly equivalent skill levels. This means that brand new players won't be running up against large groups unless those groups, themselves, consist of players with approximately Tier 4 ratings. On the other side of the coin, it also means that Tier 1-2 players who drop solo can be used to fill in gaps in Tier 1-2 teams which lack a full 12.

Removing the restriction on group/solo queues is the best way to ensure that the matchmaker has the largest possible player pool to draw from, resulting in the best possible matches for everyone.

Easy button pug farming days are over.

Grow a pair and farm them in the pug queue.

[Chados]

LRM carriers are no more a drag on their teams than hill-humping PPC, ER Laser, and gauss rifle snipers who spend all their time hiding behind advanced zoom and ECM, and who won't push with the team, Imperius. I'm right there with the front liners. Are you?

Edited by Chados, 23 August 2015 - 08:06 AM.

[Zordicron]

NOPE

OP misses the key aspect of the difference between a group of players that play together regularily and a group of total strangers that are pugging it up for the night. It is the main reason the two sections were created/split.

Leave it as it is plz.

[Mycrus]

Chados, on 23 August 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

LRM carriers are no more a drag on their teams than hill-humping PPC, ER Laser, and gauss rifle snipers who spend all their time hiding behind advanced zoom and ECM, and who won't push with the team, Imperius. I'm right there with the front liners. Are you?

Guess what honey? With more than 12000 drops under my belly ive played them all...

You want to be the apex predator?

Learn to pilot a light.

Lurms / fatties / clams / etc - everybody else is just chum in the water...

[Imperius]

Chados, on 23 August 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

Imperious FTL. Thanks, Captain Tryhard. Where's your effervescent and ever-present loyal sidekick, Metagirl?

LRM carriers are no more a drag on their teams than hill-humping PPC, ER Laser, and gauss rifle snipers who spend all their time hiding behind advanced zoom and who won't push with the team.

Lol false those players aren't disabled by ECM, and still have to get line of sight on thier targets. It's far from meta just apparently not so common "common sense". If I had to choose between a direct fire vs LRM as the last man standing I will always choose a direct fire pilot.

[Imperius]

Eldagore, on 23 August 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

NOPE

OP misses the key aspect of the difference between a group of players that play together regularily and a group of total strangers that are pugging it up for the night. It is the main reason the two sections were created/split.

Leave it as it is plz.

Just curious how much have you invested into the game? I'm curious to see how much you solo only/ casual players fund the game.

Our unit has been extremely casual since they destroyed group play the first time. We don't get rolled in matches either, so I'll call that a lie. Just the constant BS group boogie man story. It really just boils down to group queue is too hard for you.

[Chados]

Imperius-I actually edited that post because I didn't want to be that ad hominem. I apologize for that.

I know that in a Jester, dedicated to laser vomit, I rack up 25-75 damage tops in any average match. In a missile Catapult, I have anywhere average from 250 to 500, and four to ten assists depending on whether we won or not. In my case, I contribute better with the LRMs because they fit my playstyle better. You wouldn't choose me in the Jester over me in a C4, because in the Jester I won't contribute much. In the C4 I will, even if I'm forced to blindfire my missiles, because I'm just better with the mech. Part of it is hardware. Part of it is just that I'm not that tier 1 girl, I don't have the reflexes.

Edited by Chados, 23 August 2015 - 08:22 AM.

[Imperius]

Chados, on 23 August 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

Imperius-I actually edited that post because I didn't want to be that ad hominem. I apologize for that.

I know that in a Jester, dedicated to laser vomit, I rack up 25-75 damage tops in any average match. In a missile Catapult, I have anywhere average from 250 to 500, and four to ten assists depending on whether we won or not. In my case, I contribute better with the LRMs because they fit my playstyle better. You wouldn't choose me in the Jester over me in a C4, because in the Jester I won't contribute much. In the C4 I will, even if I'm forced to blindfire my missiles, because I'm just better with the mech. Part of it is hardware. Part of it is just that I'm not that tier 1 girl, I don't have the reflexes.

I'm not Tier 1 either but LRM's are such a bad weapon system I would argue that flamethrowers are even better. It's not a slam on the pilot it's a slam on how crap LRM's are, but you should know that right? You do willingly join knowing your weapons are gimped?

Most of the time yes I am the first one dead unless I get team death ball NASCAR. I average roughly 450 DMG out of all the matches I have played, more wins than losses, and a positive KDR.

Edited by Imperius, 23 August 2015 - 08:46 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Imperius, on 23 August 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

LRM only pilots are awful and a loss to the team, for each LRM boat you have you're down that many people.

Yeah Im a total waste of tonnage

Imperius, on 23 August 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

Just curious how much have you invested into the game? I'm curious to see how much you solo only/ casual players fund the game.

probably a thousand dollars easy, you?

[Chados]

Well, there's gimped and there's gimped. LRMs are badly overnerfed, that's true. I'd like to see better balance between ECM and LRMs, and I've made suggestions in the recent past for things like lock-on-jam modes and a more robust Beagle Active Probe that would go a very long way toward answering that threat.

It's not impossible to use LRMs, and yes, I play them knowing they are gimped, but I don't agree and will never agree that they're less useful than flame throwers. They demand a different kind of gameplay, much slower paced, more deliberative, and more team based. They reward a different kind of strategic thinking than the advanced-zoom sniper meta, though I myself admit that I want advanced zoom for long distance blindfiring against hill-humpers sniping under ECM, because in those situations I have to hill-hump too. You can't be successful unless you commit to supporting your teammates and working in several different roles often in the same game, and that doesn't mean always hiding 950 meters away firing indirectly from reverse slope. That's the sort of LRM play that dedicated direct-fire folks hate and vociferously complain about, honestly, and I tend to agree with them on that point.

There are some in the LRM community who are masters with them in all situations. Catalina Steiner and Tesunie come to immediate mind, as does Kjudoon (I'm misspelling his handle but he knows who I'm talking about). As for me, I have pulled off the hat trick in a match with 553 damage, second from the top in a match where a third of the players had unit tags. I've also got one-shotted in the back by a Cheetah less than a minute in, with not a round having been fired. And everything in between. I've had matches where I could do no wrong...and matches where I count get a lock for,love nor money. And I freely admit I'm still tier 5, and I've only had about 300 drops, but 90% of those are in the missile Catapults-all three of which are on full elites-and I've had kills blindfiring and with direct line of sight locks as well as indirect. I've had players gripe because I didn't LRM enough, players complain because I showed up in a Catapult and not the latest Clan metamech, and players who've thanked me for staying with the assaults to the bitter end, or backing a defense line in the river in Forest Colony, or when I got them out of a pickle with a timely barrage, or because I charged into a melee with SRMs blazing at the right time.

There is a place for LRMs in the game. It may not be in the ZOMFG l33t uberk3wl top competitive tier, but that'll never be me anyway, so no real loss to players like yourself.

[PurpleNinja]

[Vlad Ward]

Idealsuspect, on 23 August 2015 - 05:50 AM, said:

I am not terrified ( and guess nobody are ) about a CI, PL or templar's full 12' premade for example ( no offense just the truth ) and there is many other examples like this ...

But a 4' of emp, CSJx or a 6' of MS, 228 Kcom BMMU + average solos will terrify even a full bunch/team of good solos pugs + few average solos ( or worst: a 4' of average units ).


With grouping solo and group queues, this will just became a farming mode for good, coordinated and skilled units like MS, 228, TCAF, 420 and many others oh wait maybe you just want this re-happend..?
Farming solo players... ? No matter if they are totally new or if thoses veterans just want play pug/.

Cause this is the only will happend, less waiting time for pilots in groups ( they are very rare or you wouldn't open this kind of topic.... ) but less fair game for all others...


I totally agree that group queue need a real boost... i am not again play more in group, not at all... but rollback to old farming queue system is really the last thing to do.
LFG was a failure cause it was release too late, MWO population play the game 3 years and dont need/want this "feature" anymore.

CW is the key if PGI should refund this gamemode and give it a real purpose/goal for force people to play as group and more as unit ...
But it's another topic thread...

The only players that would ever see SJR, 228, MS-SwK etc in a Mixed Queue would be the absolute best players in the game (Tier 1). Their presence would not have any impact on the other 90% of the game's population at all.

This is a stark contrast to the current group queue where people like MWBuddah can walk up and get rolled by SJR 5 times a night because the population is too low to match him properly.

Mycrus, on 23 August 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Easy button pug farming days are over.

Grow a pair and farm them in the pug queue.

I already am. It's rather boring, but it's necessary in the long run. This fix wouldn't affect me so much as it would improve the matchmaker as a whole.

Honestly, many of the people I see freaking out about teams wouldn't run up against any top tier comp teams to begin with. We do have a somewhat functional matchmaker now, after all.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 23 August 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

Yeah Im a total waste of tonnage

Why would you respond with a screenshot that's clearly at least a year and several LRM patch notes old?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Vlad Ward, on 23 August 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

Why would you respond with a screenshot that's clearly at least a year and several LRM patch notes old?

Cause I dont have any winning matches more recent? Ive been losing every match pretty much since the new mm went in

and hey you agree that LRMS are the most nerfed weapon in the game then. Hooray

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 23 August 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[Imperius]

Yeah, well a player using them knowing that is a player I would never like on my team.

1450 DMG with LRM's congrats you barely helped kill anything. LRM's aren't only a gimped weapon that relies on teammates, but they spread too much damage to be effective.

There is a reason you don't win anymore, to bad just like LRM's your spreading topics all over the forums. Topics that even counter your own threads.

[Deathlike]

Why has this thread also deevolved into an LRM thread?

There is a reason why the top tier players don't touch LRMs.

While they can be effective AT TIMES, the more aggressive the opfor, the less effective an LRM user is to their team.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 August 2015 - 02:04 PM.