1142 replies to this topic

[DAYLEET]

Dont make me wait minutes only to hear someone in voip being congratulated on having just turned T3. Whats the point of making me wait if its not for better quality match?

[Oor Wullie]

Hi

Is anyone else having looooong wait times when you group up with friends? Both today and yesterday i been in a 2 man group and been sitting in queue for over 10mins.

[blackbullitt]

cant drop at all in regular faction, have been able to do some scouting. feel like i got a bucket on my head

[Damnedtroll]

I don't care who is in my team... i just want that both team are balanced... If i get 10 Tier 5 in my team, and the other about the same, so what ?

[Mr Andersson]

Obviously, the match pairings are not good. A lot of matches end up in complete stomps and a majority of them has a super wide range of skill level.

But for me, as a player, it is not easy to determine what exactly is the core of the problem. Maybe the player base is too small, I don't know. Maybe the matchmaker is bad at creating evenly matched teams given the parameters it uses, I don't know.

[Ukabix]

Mr Andersson, on 27 October 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

Obviously, the match pairings are not good. A lot of matches end up in complete stomps and a majority of them has a super wide range of skill level.

But for me, as a player, it is not easy to determine what exactly is the core of the problem. Maybe the player base is too small, I don't know. Maybe the matchmaker is bad at creating evenly matched teams given the parameters it uses, I don't know.

I played 9 invasion matches as IS today. 100% defeats. Not even one organised IS lance, all games mostly silent, most matches were done before the second wave, some had people who did not even uderstand English. This is getting pointless and frustrating.

I think this experience has cured me of MWO for a couple of months.

[Bonzai VI]

@Ukabix

There's no matchmaker in CW.

If ya wanna drop in CW either get a team going or get good enough to just carry them.

[Dungeon 206]

PGI.

im not one to complain much.
but honestly your QP matchmaker is broken.
its so bad.

i find myself being teamed up with people who are just SO bad.
13 game losing streak. whether i do 1000 dmg or not. what on earth.

im a tier 2 player. which means im supposed to be teamed with tier 3 and above.
so many players im teamed with dont even know the objective of each mode,
nor can they aim properly, nor do they listen to the team comms!
what on earth? they play like tier 5s!

so either. they are tier 3 and above but they suck so bad --> your PSR is broken.
or your MM is broken. or your MM is biased in a way that groups me with terrible teams constantly.
what on earth. the QP scene is SO BAD!


im always reading about balance balance balance. countless players are leaving the game because of imbalance.
im not going to comment on FW, because that is a separate matter.
the thing is, the majority of people who play MWO play QP.
and imbalance in QP is caused by 12 pros taking on 12 noobs.
no matter how you nerf and buff mechs, it's not going to solve your problem!
12 pros are still going to take on 12 noob potatoes and everyone is going to have a crap experience!

if you want to retain your player base. and if you want to improve the overall MWO experience.
THEN FIX THE MM AND THE PSR.
nerfing and buffing wont solve your problems.


i really hope you read this PGI. i have been a loyal follower even when the whole world crapped on the skill tree, even when the events are less than great.
and ive spent my fair share on MC and mechs.
please consider this feedback.

[Bonzai VI]

@Dungeon 206

The plain and simple reason why you've got those problems? People suck.
There just aren't many people that still play MWO that have skill. And those play CW or Comp. I stopped playing while the MM was turned off (felt like it anyways) some months ago and you can't believe HOW much better it has gotten in the past month, It's actually fun to play the game again.

Tiers are not about skill. In MWO there's sadly nothing to look at if one dude has skill or not, you gotta see him for yourself and then be good enough to even recognize the little kinks that make out a good player without seeing any of his stats.
Even the leaderboards are simply massive grindfests with guys having horrendous kmdd/game but just having played enough games to be at the top.
As such i believe the system can't really differentiate a really good from an ok player cuz it doesn't have the needed information since PGI sadly doesn't know what makes out a good player.
But also because a part of the matchmaker is also based on the 'Mech you play.


FYI if you haven't already noticed it, when playing a new mech (dunno the exact criteria) your MMR drops. I notice it since i suddenly play with guys that I know are worse than me and have a lower MMR as soon as I buy/pick a new 'Mech.

I believe it could also work the other way around: a tier 4 player that plays his favourite 'Mech suddenly has to play only with and vs tier 1 players and gets stomped since he isn't used to the environment.

I think having a part of the MMR based on your experience of the 'Mech you play is brilliant, (first time i really say this) but PGI really did have a great idea, but the execution is kind of... lacking, I dare say. Even if it's simply the case of not having enough players.


Having Tiers actually indicate the skill of one person would definitely solve several problems, but should also create some new on the playerside. Simplest of them would be the time spent waiting for players in tier 1 and probably tier 2.
I still think that that should be the way to go.
Just base the MMR on kill most damage done and solo kills and it should work. Very roughly but it would actually work, since simply taking damage done is in no way accurate.

If one can take out a heavy he knows has an IS XL equipped he simply deals less dmg than that noob that aims like he's having a seizure and his team carrying him.
True, the guy that guy that got the kill fast will climb faster, but the guy with poor aim will still climb since he did dmg and his PSR rises.


Sorry about my rambling and the way to big wall of text.
Just wanted to get some things of my chest and maybe someone learned something^^

One last thing: Why can't we pick 'Mechs after seeing the map in QP? I want to skill my Bushwacker works but playing Srms on any of the open maps are simply not fun and i doubt I'm the only one having that problem. (I'm really sorry for the people playing Atlasses out there now)^^

Edited by Bonzai VI, 30 October 2017 - 04:08 AM.

[Dungeon 206]

Bonzai VI, on 30 October 2017 - 04:04 AM, said:

Tiers are not about skill.

@Bonzai

for what its worth mate that's exactly the point i'm trying to make.
so why are we being matchmaked according to tiers then PGI?
the match maker restricts groupings to 1 tier on either side in order to "prevent" imbalance in skill level of players right?
(perhaps im wrong. but i believe that is what has been communicated in general)
yet Tiers are not about skill??

so as i said, either the MM is broken, or the PSR is broken.
and by PSR broken i mean doesnt accurately do what it's intended to do. --> segregate according to skill level.

for those who are wondering why im kicking up a big fuss about the PSR when its such a well known fact for such a long time that it actually means nothing about skill.
i'm pointing out a game error that if dealt with has the potential to vastly improve the game instead of the constant "nerfing and buffing" strategy that effectively works as a band aid and each and every time causes alot of dissension among the population.

again im speaking sole for QP here and not FW. my thoughts on balancing FW are a separate matter
the truth is: nerfing and buffing is an attempt at having a single general solution fix the problems of 2 separate and different game modes; FW and QP.
each mode has its own set of specific different problems of imbalance! nerfing and buffing might help in certain ways, but because its so general, it doesnt actually solve the real issues in each game mode!

for QP, the problem is skill imbalance between teams. and therefore the solution is to have an ACCURATE PSR. that's the way to improve the QP experience!

nerfing and buffing doesnt solve this issue!
it might temporarily create the illusion of balance (based on data on which mechs are most used), but ultimately all it really does is cause some dissension.
(a case might be made for FW, but i think there are better solutions to balance in FW than just nerf and buff.)
--> example the most iconic mech for the Clans, the Timber Wolf, has been nerfed into the ground and is no longer that playable. and what did that achieve? nothing. just made those who loved the timber wolf angry and ruined an iconic mech, whilst the rest just jumped on to find the next mech that would be OP. every time a mech is nerfed, it destroys what was unique and strong about that mech, and people just move on to "exploit" another mech until it is nerfed again.
PGI can you see how all this does is make people angry and push people to go exploit another mech?
instead a better way would be to give each and every mech a strong unique trait --> this means that mechs will remain iconic for what they are famous for, and forces people to learn how to play to the different strengths of each mech
--> more happiness, but also pushing people to improve their game play

anyway back to the issue. it's probably difficult to be able to track and accurately assess an individual players skill. and i may not have a method for doing so. but that isn't my job. my job is to provide sound and logical feedback about the true issues in a game.

PGI i hope you will consider this feedback strongly. like i said ive been a loyal follower and im really trying to help you retain your player base and make the game fun to play.
nobody wants to play with people who are outside their skill level. in either direction.

you guys are the pros in terms of game mechanics. i trust that whatever solution you come up with with regards fixing the PSR will be better than any i have to offer.
but PLEASE. fix it!
if it is meant to segregate according to skill level. then make sure it does that! because currently. it doesnt. and we all HATE that it doesnt.

Edited by Dungeon 206, 30 October 2017 - 08:39 PM.

[VXJaeger]

Dungeon 206, on 30 October 2017 - 08:37 PM, said:

PGI i hope you will consider this feedback strongly. like i said ive been a loyal follower and im really trying to help you retain your player base and make the game fun to play.

you guys are the pros in terms of game mechanics. i trust that whatever solution you come up with with regards fixing the PSR will be better than any i have to offer.
but PLEASE. fix it!

You must be living in somekinda fairytale-land, because if you haven't noticed nothing players say will ever matter. Only thing that matter is that you keep buying mechpacks, and that's it.
Even those are good only for few months before they are nerfed to oblivion, because no fun allowed and they need to sell NEW mechpacks.

So you are just mindless livestock being tolerated only to give PGI money, and nothing else beyond that matters.
Get over it.

True horror of Halloween:

Edited by VXJaeger, 30 October 2017 - 09:19 PM.

[Bonzai VI]

@Dungeon 206

While tier doesn't matter, there's still a hidden MMR that we are being teamed with other players. That's why PGI doesn't listen, it would just be an outward presentation of your skill level and for some reason they don't want that.
In tier 1 you won't just simply play with tier 1.
With a high enough hidden MMR in tier 1 you will play with people from EVIL, MJ12 and so forth, if your MMR is to low and you're tier 1 you will be placed ingame with others of your kind.

There's a system in place, just doesn't feel like it's accurate enough though.

Slight Problem with your feedback: A PGI member might read it, but I doubt they'll consider it. Way more people have already complained bout the MM.
And I've got a feeling that they are actually tweaking the MM, they're just not really succesfull in doing that.^^
But that's still just a feeling, the MM improved MASSIVELY over the last month.

And nerfing and buffing is definitely a way to improve balance.
The timber was the all around best mech there was, he could be played on any range with nearly every weapon-loadout. That shouldn't be.
The timber now has his bracket: his extremely strong in midrange fights. I didn't play him while he was the most played 'Mech, but I'm having very much fun and am very succesful with him.
He simply doesn't have the hitboxes for brawling/close range engages.

Balance now is very good, you have a wide variety of 'Mechs to pick from that you can actually play and that all have a different role. At least you have to give them that role with their loadout.

Edited by Bonzai VI, 31 October 2017 - 05:56 AM.

[blackbullitt]

the problem right now is that all the good teams keep switching sides together and play pugs. great for cbills and such for them but is ruining faction play. evil, bcmc, davion, ms all on is now, then they switch together back to clan except davion. it is killing the game. then the cheating is ridiculous also the only torso hits while you are moving and twisting. but thats for another time.
mercs should of only been is in the first place and you know it! the loyalty hit for leaving one side after playing for two years is ridiculous. to take a 25% hit after getting to general and beyond is well stupid. by that point you put in your dues.
you are trying with your events and thats great but we need to keep players in the game. new people that like the game put more investment in in their first year and a half than the long term players do. i will not buy any more mech packs till you figure this out.love the game but the cheaters and the spoilers are ruining it.

[Bonzai VI]

@blackbullitt

Really? The cheater argument? There still are not many of them.
Most people that come with that arugment simply don't have the experience to see what happened. I've got many kills where the enemy was twisting away, but I was also moving and able to land the last shot into the far side torso. That's nothing new.

I've got a idea for you on how to improve/detect cheater: Download OBS and record every match. It doesn't eat much memory. If you feel there was something going on that's not right, watch the clip again. You should then see what happened and can use it to improve when you see mistakes you made and situations in which you had wrong positioning.

Besides that, MS and co. aren't even that good individually. The problem is more that the pugs/players don't really seem like they want to improve.
Sure they move as a group, but as soon as you've reached a sufficient level (talking about CW here), you can carry a pug group and win the game.

And no, I don't talk about rushing objective.
And yes, I'm assuming the fact that they're not dropping as 12 since that's to simple proof that group sucks.

[Omaha]

While I haven't played FP in quite sometime, (Played a couple matches when scouting was introduced.) back then I noticed something.

While playing (pugging) with grouped players. There is a disconnect between the group players, and the pugs. Alot of the time the pugs have no Idea whats happening in terms of coordination in regards to the team as a whole. It's up to the players to use coms to coordinate to the team. Personally I sorta wish there was a way to force ppl to use a specific coms system (preferably in game system) I'm sure units have gotten better with this, in terms of player behavior. I remember alot of the time hearing keep coms clear, which always made me cringe. While this is difficult problem, trying to balance the behavior and tactics of an organized group. I'm sure there are ways to help this along. Also I think there should be ways that coms can be ill effected such as terrain, or maybe ecm effect, static and noise and such.

This sorta coordination also applies to the use of mechs and loadouts/skills of the individual. How does a pug know to bring the loadouts/skills to mesh well with the team of group players? We have no Idea of what tactics are gonna be used until u have a few minutes to actually type in something right b4 the start. Or until we get inside the match, and by then it's too late to change up. There almost need to be coms in place outside of matches. Where groups, can accept or reject a pug into their team. Or a system of apprenticeship, where a pug, can use the proper mechs / loadouts / and tactics that mesh with the grouped players. Maybe something can be built that will allow units, to build drop decks for renting or something so pugs can enjoy the same tactics, and have mechs/skills/loadouts that mesh well with the unit group. I mean it makes sense right? Large units would have mechs available to pugs (recruit, prospects if you will)

I mean the situation so just so complex with the amount of variables that can have an effect on the outcome of the match, it's a scary thought. Even the way you have your fire groups set up, can have a reaction to this situation.

I'm sorta thinking there needs to be a 13th player on a team, that is solely a tactician. Not piloting a mech, using satellites, and coordinating movements. Because lets face it, your in a match piloting a mech, your main focus is what piloting your mech. This leaves alot to be desired with waypoints, and tactics. While in combat try to set a defensive or offensive way point, all while being shot at and moving/twisting/aiming etc.

Also, there can be alot that can be done to the way the minimap, and large maps portray movements, mechs, and, targets, etc. Why can't friendlies have a direction indicator? Why are all the icons of mechs so similar? Why do they all get jumbled up in a contrast of red/blue colors? Personally I want actual friendly mech icons (like the paper doll, that also show dmg), that shows direction of travel, torso indication, and firing paths. Do friendlies on mini map actually need to be blue and in high contrast? Do they actually need to overlap? Can't they combine into an icon when in close proximity? Or cant it auto zoom in when in close proximity? Can't we easily sync friendly mech speeds and direction by using a match speed to target, or follow target? Can't we have mech friendly proximity warnings? Can't we have sector numbers layered above mechs icons? Cant you include this lance information into the mini map? The whole game really feels claustrophobic to me. In terms of most of the designed maps, and the way the mini maps, and indicators are portrayed. I totally get the way red/blue is for the hud I have no problems with that, but the mini map, I've always had a problem with it. I thought it was better at least with the triangles that showed direction (for friendlies), but still there were issues.

Also lets talk HUD. Can't some of this information make it into the actual HUD display? Such as targeted enemy data, like its coordinates, and mech class, and pilot name. I feel that the target information being in a upper right corner is very distracting, and should be displayed more inline to the crosshair/hud box. I do believe most of the information displayed in the mini map, could be moved to the actual HUD. In some form or another. Like the map grid. Can't we have a on angle map grid that is showed near compass. ( I cant tell you how many times, I said I got enemy movement N, NW. Then ppl respond what grid, when its completely out of minimap view. It's like ppl don't even use the compass heading.) Isnt the entire point of a HUD is to keep a pilots eye ahead forward? Instead our eyes are always moving about the screen in a frantic dizzying, spasm inducing, pattern of up down and to the corners, and what have you. We lose sight of enemy movements, and other important information, because we are keeping track of the enemies paper doll, and our own mechs status like heat, and jump jet fuel. I really feel those corners of screen should be used for non essential combat information such as scoring and chat and such.

In all reality though, I personally have no Idea how to solve this problem. I'm just brainstorming. I don't enjoy this type of grouping behavior in this type of game (arena based, match by match) Now if this game was filled with open persistent worlds, then I would totally be down with the whole social aspects of grouping, etc. Not to mention, MECHS DON'T HAVE A CHANCE TO EXPLOAD IN A HUGE STEAMY BALL OF LIGHT, AND SOUND! (=P)

Edited by Omaha, 16 November 2017 - 07:02 PM.

[mad kat]

Paul if your reading this just admit it..........

........ There is no matchmaker at all is there. None, nope, nada. Nein, non.

When you regularly on the receiving end of 12-0/12-2 stomps daily. There's something wrong.

Spectate tells a big story is clearly matching new and inexperienced players in with pro's regardless of tier.
How about officially binning the tier system as it's clearly meaningless and finding another measure!

[Omaha]

How can matchmaker, balance what a player will do during the match. You can't blame matchmaker for player behavior/coordination. Not everyone takes every match as a serious endeavor. There have been stomps since the beginning of time, and there will be stomps till the end of it.

Not too mention not every player can play the game in the same way, fps, lag spikes, loading time, etc, random crashes.

What we need is better information to the players! (Directional friendly indicators, will go a long way, in my opinion.)

There was stomps all the way back in the beta days, and even when the elo formula was in play. But if you feel there were less stomps think about this. Is it because of the triangle minimap icons? I kinda feel it was, at least partially. It allow you the coordination movements of crawling mechs with faster mechs, at a glance!

Edited by Omaha, 01 December 2017 - 05:03 AM.

[KingCobra]

Here is my take on CW/FP Russ you need to split the CW/FP into to groups (organized teams 8-12 man Vs organized teams 8-12 man) and ( pugs/small groups up to 4 players VS pugs/small groups up to 4 players) and CW/FP would be much better game play for everyone .

Far to long have organized teams stomped pugs and small groups for rewards in CW/FP and have driven off new players and casuals its time to balance CW/FP for good .The mechs and weapons are quite balanced now its time to balance and balance the player base to retain more playing and paying players for this game before it dies out.

As far a QP just add more game modes like Hawkens siege and missile game modes for players and its all good.The new map is cool hope to see more new maps like it in the future.

Edited by KingCobra, 05 December 2017 - 08:48 AM.

[Gogopher]

having just returned to game from a long break (about 4years give or take some months)...a break i and the rest of my unit took due to the horrible state of the game right before clans came out....

what i have seen since my return has pulled me back in but i still find inexcusable issues with the game...issues that have never been addressed...

1. quick group play: it is completely asinine that full 12m premades are allowed in the que...period...there is no excuse for this and it basically makes gp feel like an extension of faction play (which i have zero issue with allowing full pm's in que)...quick play is the place to learn the game...get some mechs...make some friends...quick group play should just be an extension of it...no more than 4 people should be allowed to group...period...end of discussion

u want faction play to be the end game...u want it to be representative of the both the battle tech and mech warrior universe...fine i get that and i agree...but u make it a path to get there...quick play to learn the basics of the game and to grind solo...quick group play should be an extension of this path..the place that small premades and solo que (separate que from quick solo play mind u...it should be a place where groups and those solo players who wish can co-mingle) pl can come and learn group cordination...where the competition is stiffer but not stupidly outrageous...then u leave faction play open to anyone and anybody...i added the solo players in simply because faction play allows solo players and quick group play should be a place those who prefer either the challenge or intend to run faction solo can likewise get experience in fighting groups before faction play

right now u go from baby steps to f'it learn to swim or drown...so u get new people to the game who learn the basics...get a few friends and then promptly get demolished by premade sync drops and 12mans who are just farming/seal clubbing...its just plain stupid...u lose players before they ever get to faction play...and do not give me the tired old argument of get some friends and get a group...a 4man lance with 8 other randomly grouped players of differing size units is just going to get pug stomped by a real 8+man pm

2. faction play-having differing tonnage of is and clan is just dumb...is have far superior close in boats than clan...whatever difference once existed between that two to cause tonnage limitations is gone...dead...not going to return...on average is mechs have far superior armor, build flexibility, and short range weaponry (whoever thought of making the clan ac20 fire more than one shot needs to be..well...shot)...clan have superior lasers and long range missiles...there is no reason to limit tonnage is vs clan

3. dev's need to post more about their vision of the game and the roadmaps need to be updated more frequently...i have seen a post iirc from oct talking about solaris and loot boxes and 8v8's) but nothing since (hell i might be wrong here as i said i just returned to the game but a cursory scan of the forums caused this bullet)

4. full 12m premades should be restricted to the environment that is intended for that level of coordination: competition (faction play)...

tldr: fix group play so that it isnt a place for large units to go seal clubbing to get their epeen kicks...make the path to faction play more clear and less arduous

[Laser Kiwi]

last fight i lost 12-4, the matchmaker was almost perfect with average team percentile of 72 vs 71 according to jarls list with a fairly even distribution of good and bad players. Just couldn't account for crappy builds and bad tactics.

Don't get me wrong, players actually bagged the matchmaker which is why i'm noting it, but it wasn't the matchmaker, it was otherwise good players doing stupid stuff, cause they felt like it or were tired or were trying something out in their mech or whatever.

The matchmaker can't account for douchebaggery and bad individual choices in battle, or even luck.

One more thing, all those guys who come on the ingame chat and complain about losing game after game and having idiot team after idiot team, if that is happening to you there is only one constant in all that chaos, you. You are the potato, welcome to the club.