97 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

GreyNovember, on 05 September 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

Would it?

By removing all the clan mechs, you also remove the suboptimal mechs. You didn't change the game mechanics at all, hence none of the IS mechs alter their loadouts.

Things like the Adder, Nova, and Summoner no longer exist to diversify builds. How does that decrease the difference to the next best mech then?

Because Spider-5V is still Inner Sphere mech, and still the worst mech, then followed by plenty of bad mechs such as Commandoes and Trebuchets. Inner Sphere has plenty of mediocrity.

At least the Awesome for example will have some chance vs. the Banshee, than the Dire Whale.

Faction only queue is impractical however. Perhaps after Steam release...

Edited by El Bandito, 05 September 2015 - 04:56 PM.

[Yellonet]

GreyNovember, on 05 September 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

Would it?

By removing all the clan mechs, you also remove the suboptimal mechs. You didn't change the game mechanics at all, hence none of the IS mechs alter their loadouts.

Things like the Adder, Nova, and Summoner no longer exist to diversify builds. How does that decrease the difference to the next best mech then?

I don't know what the top list of best IS mechs look like, and I don't think we can know unless we remove the clan mechs from the equation. Even if we had a top 3 IS mechs for every class now, it's not certain that it would be the same lists when they are pitted only against other IS mechs.

[Alan Davion]

El Bandito, on 05 September 2015 - 04:52 PM, said:

Because Spider-5V is still Inner Sphere mech, and still the worst mech, the last time I checked.

But by putting it up against only other IS mechs, it may still be low on the light mech tier, but it would not be as low on the list when the Clan mechs are taken out of the equation.

See where we're going with this?

[Kira Onime]

Yellonet, on 05 September 2015 - 04:47 PM, said:

We have a game in which a central part is to build/modify your mechs, if only a few builds are viable, is that fun?

I enjoy playing giant stompy robots. I don't need to have 50 different play styles to enjoy it.
Also, meta doesn't take "fun" in consideration.

There will always be a top 4-5 chassis or variant in the game and there will always be a top 5 mech that suck.
There will never be a world where everything is on equal footing.

[El Bandito]

Alan Davion, on 05 September 2015 - 04:56 PM, said:

But by putting it up against only other IS mechs, it may still be low on the light mech tier, but it would not be as low on the list when the Clan mechs are taken out of the equation.

See where we're going with this?

See my edited post. I am agreeing that IS only queue will have less power difference.

[Kira Onime]

Yellonet, on 05 September 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

I don't know what the top list of best IS mechs look like, and I don't think we can know unless we remove the clan mechs from the equation. Even if we had a top 3 IS mechs for every class now, it's not certain that it would be the same lists when they are pitted only against other IS mechs.

Here are the top 20 IS mechs used durring the battle of tukkayid.

• TDR5SS: 50910
  
• STK4N: 32887
  
• TDR9S: 20586
  
• TDR9SE: 19279
  
• RVN3L(C): 18858
  
• TDR9SE(C): 17692
  
• RVN3L: 16504
  
• JM6DD: 14933
  
• DRG1N: 14021
  
• SDR5D: 13316
  
• CDA3M: 12475
  
• FS9S: 10762
  
• JM6S: 9709
  
• STKHERO: 9617
  
• AS7DDC: 9404
  
• FS9A: 9303
  
• GRF2N9: 227
  
• WVR6K: 8532
  
• RVNHERO: 8510
  
• RVN2X: 7136

This list should give youa general idea of top IS mechs.
Removing clans would probably do little to nothing to change this.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

You can have IS vs IS in CW.
Yeah, I know, CW sux. But still, is possible without gathering friends and going privet.

[El Bandito]

Kira_Onime, on 05 September 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

Here are the top 20 IS mechs used durring the battle of tukkayid.

• TDR5SS: 50910
  
• STK4N: 32887
  
• TDR9S: 20586
  
• TDR9SE: 19279
  
• RVN3L(C): 18858
  
• TDR9SE(C): 17692
  
• RVN3L: 16504
  
• JM6DD: 14933
  
• DRG1N: 14021
  
• SDR5D: 13316
  
• CDA3M: 12475
  
• FS9S: 10762
  
• JM6S: 9709
  
• STKHERO: 9617
  
• AS7DDC: 9404
  
• FS9A: 9303
  
• GRF2N9: 227
  
• WVR6K: 8532
  
• RVNHERO: 8510
  
• RVN2X: 7136

This list should give youa general idea of top IS mechs.
Removing clans would probably do little to nothing to change this.

9/22 is still a thing BTW. Nothing is certain before that. Especially concerning the Thunderbutts.

[Andi Nagasia]

in these forums the Power of a Mech doesnt meant anything,
because a mech is seems to have the Advantage, it is automatically better,

Example HBK vs NVA,
NVA can have more Energy(12-14 to HBKs 9) and they are Clan Energy(Clan = Better),
so NVA is Automatically Better hands down, no way to debate it other wise,

after all Forums are Life, and well

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Kira_Onime, on 05 September 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

Here are the top 20 IS mechs used durring the battle of tukkayid.

• TDR5SS: 50910
  
• STK4N: 32887
  
• TDR9S: 20586
  
• TDR9SE: 19279
  
• RVN3L(C): 18858
  
• TDR9SE(C): 17692
  
• RVN3L: 16504
  
• JM6DD: 14933
  
• DRG1N: 14021
  
• SDR5D: 13316
  
• CDA3M: 12475
  
• FS9S: 10762
  
• JM6S: 9709
  
• STKHERO: 9617
  
• AS7DDC: 9404
  
• FS9A: 9303
  
• GRF2N9: 227
  
• WVR6K: 8532
  
• RVNHERO: 8510
  
• RVN2X: 7136

This list should give youa general idea of top IS mechs.
Removing clans would probably do little to nothing to change this.

3025 Stock Mode would change that.

[El Bandito]

Andi Nagasia, on 05 September 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

in these forums the Power of a Mech doesnt meant anything,
because a mech is seems to have the Advantage, it is automatically better,

Example HBK vs NVA,
NVA can have more Energy(12-14 to HBKs 9) and they are Clan Energy(Clan = Better),
so NVA is Automatically Better hands down, no way to debate it other wise,

I have no doubt that in the tryhard mountain people will prefer Nova over the 4P. In Puglandia, anything goes.

[Kira Onime]

El Bandito, on 05 September 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

9/22 is still a thing BTW. Nothing is certain before that. Especially concerning the Thunderbutts.

It is. We'll have to see what happens with that but let's be honest, no matter how good PGI want to balance this game, there will always be a couple of mechs that pop out above the crowd.

[Andi Nagasia]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 05 September 2015 - 05:05 PM, said:

3025 Stock Mode would change that.

perhaps but people would just find the Best IS Mech,
(in this Case Best = Most Optimized in its Stock Form),
and will only use that and nothing else,

a Prime Example of how this is already happening?
NVA vs SCR, if both are Stock which do you take?

[Vlad Ward]

Alan Davion, on 05 September 2015 - 04:56 PM, said:

But by putting it up against only other IS mechs, it may still be low on the light mech tier, but it would not be as low on the list when the Clan mechs are taken out of the equation.

See where we're going with this?

Not really.

The best IS Mechs and the best Clan mechs are not that far off in terms of performance/viability.

Clans edge out in all weight classes (except Assault on some maps/modes, and Clan Assaults are always ass in CW). But it's a close thing. It's not a blowout.

Will the range between the weak and the strong change all that much in an IS only queue? Not really.

Now, a Clan only queue...

That would have a better performance range. Not because Clan mechs are great, but because Omnimech Mechlab restrictions make it so you can't really screw up Clan Mechs too badly. The Summoner may be **** compared to the Timber Wolf but at least it's not an XL Orion taking on a tricked out Thunderbolt.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 05 September 2015 - 05:12 PM.

[Yellonet]

Kira_Onime, on 05 September 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

Here are the top 20 IS mechs used durring the battle of tukkayid.

• TDR5SS: 50910
  
• STK4N: 32887
  
• TDR9S: 20586
  
• TDR9SE: 19279
  
• RVN3L(C): 18858
  
• TDR9SE(C): 17692
  
• RVN3L: 16504
  
• JM6DD: 14933
  
• DRG1N: 14021
  
• SDR5D: 13316
  
• CDA3M: 12475
  
• FS9S: 10762
  
• JM6S: 9709
  
• STKHERO: 9617
  
• AS7DDC: 9404
  
• FS9A: 9303
  
• GRF2N9: 227
  
• WVR6K: 8532
  
• RVNHERO: 8510
  
• RVN2X: 7136

This list should give youa general idea of top IS mechs.
Removing clans would probably do little to nothing to change this.

What is the battle of tukkayid and what do those numbers after the mech names mean?

[Alan Davion]

Yellonet, on 05 September 2015 - 05:19 PM, said:

What is the battle of tukkayid and what do those numbers after the mech names mean?

The Battle of Tukayyid, or however its spelled, was a big CW event held back in Winter, those numbers are the totals of that specific mech that were used in the event.

[SkyHammyr]

I'd rather see Stock Mode be a thing.
Great for the new players- who are restricted to Trials or mechs w/o upgrade.
Great for the guys leveling new mechs that don't have the space bucks for the upgrades.
Might even reduce TTK since sub-optimal builds and everything runs so hot stock.

Would rather see that than IS Only Mode.

[Kira Onime]

Yellonet, on 05 September 2015 - 05:19 PM, said:

What is the battle of tukkayid and what do those numbers after the mech names mean?

The battle of Tukkayid was a global CW event back in like March where it was clans vs IS on who could capture the planet.
The numbers you see represent how many times each chassis was used.

[El Bandito]

Kira_Onime, on 05 September 2015 - 05:07 PM, said:

It is. We'll have to see what happens with that but let's be honest, no matter how good PGI want to balance this game, there will always be a couple of mechs that pop out above the crowd.

And it is PGI's job to make sure the top mech is only teeny tiny slightly better than the next alternative, not heads above the rest--like when the Timberwolf first came out. Even with negative quirks, it is still the best mech of MWO.

[Kira Onime]

El Bandito, on 05 September 2015 - 05:29 PM, said:

And it is PGI's job to make sure the top mech is only teeny tiny slightly better than the next alternative, not heads above the rest--like when the Timberwolf first came out. Even with negative quirks, it is still the best mech of MWO.

As long as they do it intelligently.