102 replies to this topic

[Zelus]

Input types are important things to consider.

Mechwarrior 4 boiled down to two playstyles due to the controllers.

You had the 'snipers' where the precision of the mouse was extremely useful at longer ranges. Hard to line up an accurate shot with a joystick.

And you had the 'brawlers' who used three-axis joysticks to great effect at closer ranges, due to the ability to easily torso-twist while manuvering. Ever seen someone juke a gauss rifle with a mouse?

The console controllers don't have the features of either, to great effect. Two, two-axis sticks doesn't compare to a three-axis stick and throttle lever.

Similarly, most consoler shooters include some form of auto-aim due to the lack of accuracy with the controller.

This is part of the reason PC and console multiplayer realms are rarely allowed to interact: the PC player's better control options offer an unfair advantage over the console players.

It just doesn't make sense to expend developer resources on a less effective control method. However, I respected that sitting-back on the couch is a confortable play position, so I understand why some prefer it.

[PropagandaWar]

Ok I dont have my sidewinder anymore so I put my XBox wired Gamepad in and installed x-padder. It works ok. I still prefer a stick but I used left stick for torso and aiming up and down, right stick too turn, left and right bumper to throttle, left trigger weapon group selection, right to fire. Left thumbstick press for Jump Jets, right Thumbstick press zoom. Button x for back up fire, button y for fire group 2, a for group 3 B to flush coolant. Direction pad up switch mode and jump jet cam (if you hold it does this) Direct right switch fire mode (If you hold look Right) Direction down target nearest (Look Back), Direction Left Target Friendly (Hold look left). Does the trick. I would use my AV8R but it doesnt like MW4.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 11 July 2012 - 09:36 PM.

[Team Leader]

Zelus, on 11 July 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

Input types are important things to consider.

The console controllers don't have the features of either, to great effect. Two, two-axis sticks doesn't compare to a three-axis stick and throttle lever.

Similarly, most consoler shooters include some form of auto-aim due to the lack of accuracy with the controller.

I should point out that a standard controller has two 2-axis sticks, so therefore 4 axis of movement over a joysticks 3. 4 is more than 3, right? Not to mention, at least 20 other buttons besides the sticks and triggers. Not including start, select and menu button. Torso control is quite easy with a controller and so is throttle if you set it up like an intelligent human. And if other people cant aim with a controller, wouldnt you want that? I mean, easier for you right? I say let people play with what they are comfortable playing with.

Edited by Team Leader, 11 July 2012 - 08:59 PM.

[Zelus]

Team Leader, on 11 July 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

I should point out that a standard controller has two 2-axis sticks, so therefore 4 axis of movement over a joysticks 3. 4 is more than 3, right? Not to mention, at least 20 other buttons besides the sticks and triggers. Not including start, select and menu button. Torso control is quite easy with a controller and so is throttle if you set it up like an intelligent human. And if other people cant aim with a controller, wouldnt you want that? I mean, easier for you right? I say let people play with what they are comfortable playing with.

I've got nothing against people using what they're comfortable with; people should.

What I meant by "doesn't compare" was that the joystick's three-axes are controlled from the wrist, freeing the thumb to utilize other buttons. Often joysticks place more buttons around the thumb than a gamepad user has access to at any given time (with both hands!).

For a gamepad, a player must sacrifice controlling the direction of their 'mech to gain access to additional buttons.
I don't believe that losing the ability to steer your 'mech in order to hit the "Override Shutdown" button is a competitive, or even viable, play style.

[Dreadnought13]

this has to be the most childish thread Ive found yet on MWO... thank you so much. If someone prefers a joystick, mouse/kb, gamepad, xbox controller, who gives a crap, what difference does it make? My wife is signed up for MWO, her computer is hooked to the television, so a mouse/keyboard wont work, and nothing to hook a joystick to. Xbox controller plugs and plays, problem solved. Nobody cares that you're using a $400 throttle setup, just like none of you care that I'm using a steel battalion controller. If they want an xbox controller and PGI says ok, you no longer matter in that equation.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

by all means allow people to use controllers, this is one of the few games where controllers won't be heavily disadvantaged to the precision of a mouse.

but for those of you not using a keyboard and mouse, let me remind you that those two reasons are why companies like EA and Microsoft haven't allowed cross platform deathmatching. The levels of butthurt would be insurmountable from the console players, causing a large loss of profit, as well as a large loss of control over what they call consumers as they flock to the more open gaming platforms.


consoles stopped being about games long ago. when companies found they could monopolize the gaming industry it became about taking your money, nickel and diming you at every turn and why not- you're locked into their system if you want to play the games you like.

the problem with the open computer platform is that its open. obviously operating systems have become monopolized but the platform is otherwise so open and free that bad business is usually punished.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 15 July 2012 - 07:15 PM.

[Graphite]

Why bother asking PGI for support? You don't need them - you can set up an xbox controller as joystick on your computer yourself.

Anyway, judging from the fine touch aiming in the videos released so far I think a mouse will be superior. It's going to be like "normal" fps: gamepads are at a disadvantage compared to mouse/keyboard.

[Victor Morson]

An X-Box Controller to Windows is just another game controller. There's zero reason it won't work if a game supports joysticks.

[Frosty7]

Hah, no! Although I would love to pick on people silly enough to use a controller which would severely hamper their capability to aim and what not I would not like to have them on my own team.

The mouse, keyboard, joystick, et cetera have proven to be way more accurate and efficient input devices than console controllers. I'd prefer it if everyone just realized that and stopped wasting their money on something which is making their game artificially more difficult. Besides, my keyboard has abouy a hundred buttons. Depending on how many controls and functions MWO will have I will, theoretically, be able to put each control/function on a different button (it depends on how they chose to set that kind of stuff up). That means I don't need to hold this button to activate alternate functions or use weird button combinations and I can customize for that comfort you were talking about.

And yeah, Battlecruiser and Zelos pretty much said everything else I was going to say

[MeiSooHaityu]

I do have a Xbox360 Windows controller, but I do not think it will be accurate enough. A flight stick is one thing, but those little thumb sticks would make exact aiming difficult without a bit of snap-to auto aim, and the devs are not going to add that.

[Undercover Brother]

Aesaar, on 06 July 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Mouse + keyboard is the best input setup there is!

But seriously, I don't really care. If those who want to use a 360 controller want to, they should. It only becomes a problem when companies decide their entire control scheme needs to fit on its very limited amount of buttons, and add in aim assist to "balance" things out.

Out of curiosity, what would you use the second thumbstrick for? Movement is throttle based, and most, if not all joysticks have a wheel for that. 360 controllers don't. Wouldn't using the thumbstick for it be unwieldy? You try to increase the throttle a bit, and you end up turning the whole mech. I could see it becoming really annoying really fast.

I know how I'd map it:
Left Thumbstick: (Move) *Click for Jumpjets*
Right Thumbstick: (Aiming Reticle) *Select Target*
Gamepad: Up/Down (Cycle Weapons)---Right/Left (Select/Save Weapons Grouping)
Left Trigger: (Zoom)
Right Trigger: (Fire Selected Weapons Group)
Left Bumper: (Previous Target)
Right Bumper: (Next Target)
Y: (Shutdown Override)
B: (Alpha Strike)
A: (Active/Passive Radar)
X: (Team Communications-Quick Message: "Attack my target")

Obviously, with the game's complexity, this setup would still require the keyboard, but 95% of what you'd need to do in the cockpit could be done just with the XBox 360 Controller (A similar setup would be easy for a PS-type controller as well)

...And as for "auto-aim" with gaming controllers, I agree with most of you... I CAN'T STAND it! I think though, with the somewhat slower speed (compared to a typical FPS) of MWO, and with the ability to tweak sensativity levels, a gamepad could be pretty accurate.

Edited by T Decker, 30 July 2012 - 07:36 AM.

[Zwag78]

My .02, I'd say lets not waste the developers time on this. Use the time spent on this developing new maps or mechs, controls with keyboard and mouse are just fine.

[TecknoJock]

Honestly, why do they need to add specific XBox support when there are other programs that will translate Xbox controller Xinputs, something which I believe is only used on xbox controllers, to standard DirectInputs, something which they quite obviously are supporting because regular joysticks are supported from what I understand.

Edited by TecknoJock, 30 July 2012 - 11:50 AM.

[ALacKOfLife]

Xbox controllers would need multiple pre-defined setups to compliment all the players who would rather prefer a setup over another...
Better yet, allow the players to set the controllers themselves.


...personally I'd use this...

Left Analog:
---
Up and Down: Control your acceleration/deceleration
Left and Right: Move your entire mech Left and Right.
Click: Stop your Mech completely.
=

Right Analog:
---
Up and Down: Control torso pitch
Left and Right: control torso yaw
Click: Center torso to legs
=

Right Trigger: Fire selected weapon group
Left Trigger: Zoom
Right Bumper: Next Enemy
Left Bumper: Previous Enemy

A Button: Jump Jets
X Button: Shutdown Override (I don't think shutdown is completely nessecary yet.)
B Button: Switch Visions (If I'm right there is going to be Night vision as well.)
Y Button: Assign weapon to current group

D-Pad: Controls weapon grouping and current group selection.

Start: Pause Menu
Select: Scoreboard


Alpha strike could easily be emulated if you have an extra weapon group to spare.

TecknoJock, on 30 July 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

Honestly, why do they need to add specific XBox support when there are other programs that will translate Xbox controller Xinputs, something which I believe is only used on xbox controllers, to standard DirectInputs, something which they quite obviously are supporting because regular joysticks are supported from what I understand.

The point of those programs is for things that DON'T support them usually.

Edited by ALacKOfLife, 18 August 2012 - 01:54 PM.

[Nekki Basara]

SPARTAN 104, on 18 August 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

I have an injury from the war in Iraq. My left hand and cannot open it all the way, which is why I'm here atm. Sometimes we have to think about others as well as ourselves. Not just ourselves.

While I appreciate what you're trying to do here you should have read the later posts before responding to my initial one in isolation. I specifically stated that using a generalist library over a specialist library would benefit more users and allow more peripherals to be used.

[KANE06]

im all for the 360 controller, it may be more simple but it will be comfortable and get more people into the game n then if they wanna play at tornament standard they'll switch. i can aim very well with the 360 controller and i would like to use it... at least to try it out. peace

[ZahrimX]

I too want to have game controllers properly supported in the game. Thank you.

[Dagger906]

ZahrimX, on 09 November 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

I too want to have game controllers properly supported in the game. Thank you.

I want them supported so others can use them and be easy kills for us mouse warriors.

[ZahrimX]

I started playing with the mouse but found this game more difficult with a KB/mouse set up (I am a southpaw) than with any of the other games I play so I bought a game controller to see if there was a significant difference only to find out there was no real support.

[Punisher8522]

Aesaar, on 06 July 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Mouse + keyboard is the best input setup there is!

But seriously, I don't really care. If those who want to use a 360 controller want to, they should. It only becomes a problem when companies decide their entire control scheme needs to fit on its very limited amount of buttons, and add in aim assist to "balance" things out.

Out of curiosity, what would you use the second thumbstrick for? Movement is throttle based, and most, if not all joysticks have a wheel for that. 360 controllers don't. Wouldn't using the thumbstick for it be unwieldy? You try to increase the throttle a bit, and you end up turning the whole mech. I could see it becoming really annoying really fast.

I've already tried using the 360 controller and i almost had it working. the left thumbstick would control torso twist and pitch along with the click down controling zoom. The right would control turning left and right. Throttle can be controlled by the left and right bumpers on top. The left trigger controls weapon group 2 and the right weapon group 1. I don't have it perfected, but you get the idea. The bottom line is that 360 controllers need to be added into the support list for those who want to use them.