338 replies to this topic

[Rizzelbizzeg]

I like that sensors are part of the rebalance. I think that will add to role warfare if done well (at the very least it should allow scouts to see farther than they can be seen, that would make sense to me).

I hope they're going about this in an iterative fashion because just ripping out all weapon quirks and done seems bad. I'm hoping they're rolling with something like:
Iteration 1: add sensors, remove weapon quirks and see how the various weapon nerfs changes shook out over time.
Iteration 2: tweak sensors, look at/tweak ECM, tweak weapon numbers globally for clan v IS balance
Iteration 3: slight global weapon tweaks, add in slight weapon quirks for severe under-performers
Iteration 4: more slight tweaks to sensors, mech weapon quirks, etc.
THEN maybe full release.

TL;DR: I hope they're building balance from the ground up taking all aspects into account. We'll see...

[KraftySOT]

IraqiWalker, on 11 September 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

It's better than impotent rage over what might not even be happening. Good for you.

Impotent rage is the new black. AND I HATE BLACK!!!! heh.

[Yosharian]

Anyone with a functioning brain can see that removing virtually all weapon and heat quirks entirely simply destroys Inner Sphere viability.

A few negative quirks on the Holy Trinity does not negate the complete dominance that Clan lasers and ultra-light Clan Gauss rifles have over their Inner Sphere counterparts, not to mention the extra cooling they almost always bring thanks to tonnage savings from Clan Endo/Ferro.

Structure quirks will go some way to helping negate the Clan XL advantage but that alone won't save IS mechs.

It's not even a good first pass. This is an absolute train wreck.

Edited by Yosharian, 11 September 2015 - 01:17 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

First they came for the trolls, and I did nothing because I was not a troll.

Then they came for the nay sayers, and I did nothing because I was not a nay sayer.

Then they came for the bittervets, and I did nothing because I was not a bittervet.

Then they came for me...and there was no one left.

That got super dark, super fast.

XX Sulla XX, on 11 September 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

Thanks very much. Although what are "IS quirks"? Sorry long day.

Internal Structure. People need to stop using that acronym though, because many see it as "Inner Sphere".

[Johnny Z]

XX Sulla XX, on 11 September 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

But the thing is the TT game they are pulling numbers from was not balanced when clans came out. Thats why the IS had to come out with new stuff. Trying to make the old IS weapons balanced will then add problems later when you do get the better IS weapons.

Sure but they are building an "original Mechwarrior online game". They simply cant chase the timeline. The TT timeline chase was possible because it an entirely different ball game. They have to do what works....

I cant even guess what will be added for equipment. For sure new equipment will be added some time. A safe bet. They sort of have to choose what equipment can be added that will work with the online game they have created from scratch.

Edited by Johnny Z, 11 September 2015 - 01:21 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Yosharian, on 11 September 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

Anyone with a functioning brain can see that removing virtually all weapon and heat quirks entirely simply destroys Inner Sphere viability.

A few negative quirks does not negate the complete dominance that Clan lasers and ultra-light Clan Gauss rifles have over their Inner Sphere counterparts, not to mention the extra cooling they almost always bring thanks to tonnage savings from Clan Endo/Ferro.

Structure quirks will go some way to helping negate the Clan XL advantage but that alone won't save IS mechs.

It's not even a good first pass. This is an absolute train wreck.

Good, then make a constructive post with decent feedback on the issue. Some numbers, and testing would help it a lot, and present it to PGI.

[XX Sulla XX]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

Internal Structure.

Ahh OK thanks.

[Yosharian]

IraqiWalker, on 11 September 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

Good, then make a constructive post with decent feedback on the issue. Some numbers, and testing would help it a lot, and present it to PGI.

I'm tired of making suggestions that are completely ignored.

Nobody on the staff even reads these forums.

[KraftySOT]

Tina reads them. Mike reads them occasionally. Russ has read it at least long enough to post once in a thread about them never reading and posting.

But theres so many suggestions and been so many suggestions already, that everything is just lost in the sea. Theyre not in a position to take our suggestions. Were basically just along for the ride.

If its not a bug. Theres not much for us to do, but hang on.

[XX Sulla XX]

Yosharian, on 11 September 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

Anyone with a functioning brain can see that removing virtually all weapon and heat quirks entirely simply destroys Inner Sphere viability.

A few negative quirks on the Holy Trinity does not negate the complete dominance that Clan lasers and ultra-light Clan Gauss rifles have over their Inner Sphere counterparts, not to mention the extra cooling they almost always bring thanks to tonnage savings from Clan Endo/Ferro.

Structure quirks will go some way to helping negate the Clan XL advantage but that alone won't save IS mechs.

It's not even a good first pass. This is an absolute train wreck.

I agree the problem just goes back to the balance problems in TT. The current IS weapons and engines just are not as good as the Clan versions. Thats why they came out with better IS engines and weapons.

[FupDup]

KraftySOT, on 11 September 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

Tina reads them. Mike reads them occasionally. Russ has read it at least long enough to post once in a thread about them never reading and posting.

But theres so many suggestions and been so many suggestions already, that everything is just lost in the sea. Theyre not in a position to take our suggestions. Were basically just along for the ride.

If its not a bug. Theres not much for us to do, but hang on.

The forums are like a body of land surrounded by water on all sides...

[X T R E M E]

Yosharian, on 11 September 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

I'm tired of making suggestions that are completely ignored.

Nobody on the staff even reads these forums.

I agree

[Johnny Z]

LOL I should add those complaining they have not stuck to the time line or lore should think again. EA made a star wars game with giant green heal beams and all sorts of completely none lore mechanics and content. The game they made is about 5% Star Wars and 95% something else.

Take a step back and look around a bit and this game is closer to its origins than any other I can think of, by a long shot.

Edited by Johnny Z, 11 September 2015 - 01:35 PM.

[Vandomar]

Might I inquire as to the state of the Jagermech?

[KraftySOT]

XX Sulla XX, on 11 September 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

I agree the problem just goes back to the balance problems in TT. The current IS weapons and engines just are not as good as the Clan versions. Thats why they came out with better IS engines and weapons.

Well if you play with ALL the rules and ALL the swag and extra compendiums and optional rules and read all the fanzines...it was perfectly balanced.

Thats how they got you for the $$$ before Free to Play and DLCs.

You have any idea how much money it cost in the 80s to own everything there was to own for Dungeons and Dragons? Its all about packages of extended content mang.

Old school analog pay to win. "Hah Im gonna beat you with my Kit Fox again." "Not this time, ive got a Hollander." "Thats not a real thing, no IS mech that small can mount a gauss rifle" "Nuh uh, look here in this TRO." "What the hell dude?!"

How we rolled.

Edited by KraftySOT, 11 September 2015 - 01:31 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Yosharian, on 11 September 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

I'm tired of making suggestions that are completely ignored.

Nobody on the staff even reads these forums.

Are they? Or does PGI take too long to make some of them happen? So far, I've noticed a trend, most of the stuff PGi has been doing over the past 1.5 years+ has been based on player suggestions. Including removing weapon quirks, and making them more focused on the mechs. That was something mentioned ad nauseam in the forums, reddit, and twitter.

We told them the K2 ears suck now, and Russ has actually talked about redoing the ears. We told them the Awesome, and several other mechs needed re-scaling, and they are working on that.

Gauss needed some way to nerf it, and it took them a while, but charge was added (thank god, for Gauss Charge)

It's not that they're not listening. It's that they are 50 people with nearly no overlapping skills, working on this game, and it's multitude of features, and it takes them a long time to finish dealing with some items, before moving on to others we've suggested.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 11 September 2015 - 01:30 PM.

[Night Thastus]

1/2 an hour guys!

[MischiefSC]

So the original point of quirks was to get badly designed chassis up to par with good chassis and help bridge the gap between IS and Clan weapons and the Tier 1 IS and Clan mechs, as well as bringing lower Tier mechs more up to par.

Quirks were done in lieu of further nerfs to Clan weapons/mechs, trying to create overall parity. Structure/twist buffs don't address that. At all. In any relevant or worthwhile way what so ever. All this does is make mediums soak damage like heavies, heavies like assaults and assaults like assaults with a bit of a buff. May as well just give armor a 25% increase across the board and call that good I guess?

The agility buffs only affect two things - peeking and in some narrow instances brawling, but only brawling in a 1v1 environment.

I just... ugh. So much ugh.

[Yosharian]

Vandomar, on 11 September 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

Might I inquire as to the state of the Jagermech?

My guess: some small structure quirks, a few yaw/pitch quirks.

[FupDup]

MischiefSC, on 11 September 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

So the original point of quirks was to get badly designed chassis up to par with good chassis and help bridge the gap between IS and Clan weapons and the Tier 1 IS and Clan mechs, as well as bringing lower Tier mechs more up to par.

Quirks were done in lieu of further nerfs to Clan weapons/mechs, trying to create overall parity. Structure/twist buffs don't address that. At all. In any relevant or worthwhile way what so ever. All this does is make mediums soak damage like heavies, heavies like assaults and assaults like assaults with a bit of a buff. May as well just give armor a 25% increase across the board and call that good I guess?

The agility buffs only affect two things - peeking and in some narrow instances brawling, but only brawling in a 1v1 environment.

I just... ugh. So much ugh.

There's also agility nerfs all over the place, including on many lights and mediums. >_<