431 replies to this topic

[Alienized]

Yokaiko, on 12 September 2015 - 05:37 AM, said:

Again, because PGI tends to put whatever hits the test server live without any significant changes, this is a point of concern because no one can make any sense of what they are trying to accomplish. Paul posted the what they were trying to do, but it makes NO sense when you look at it in the the mechlab.

so. like pretty much every unfinished thing right?

[Juodas Varnas]

Alienized, on 12 September 2015 - 05:38 AM, said:

so. like pretty much every unfinished thing right?

The problem is, that PGI have a habit of leaving those things unfinished.
You know?
Like the whole skill system.

[Yokaiko]

Juodas Varnas, on 12 September 2015 - 05:46 AM, said:

The problem is, that PGI have a habit of leaving those things unfinished.
You know?
Like the whole skill system.

Including pin-point and sliding convergence has been turned off since Open Beta, but you still spend 4000XP on it to Master a mech.

[Alienized]

Juodas Varnas, on 12 September 2015 - 05:46 AM, said:

The problem is, that PGI have a habit of leaving those things unfinished.
You know?
Like the whole skill system.

with the tons of useless comments per thread im not surprised that PGI cant listen to the actual few good thoughts.
would you read 40 pages of useless cr*p to fish out 20 good suggestions?

i bet you wouldnt. but its happening each time and our pretty community cant change that behaviour at all.
i find that damn sad.

[Juodas Varnas]

Alienized, on 12 September 2015 - 05:50 AM, said:

i bet you wouldnt. but its happening each time and our pretty community cant change that behaviour at all.
i find that damn sad.

At least it's obvious that the community's feedback is overwhelmingly NEGATIVE.

[Yokaiko]

Alienized, on 12 September 2015 - 05:50 AM, said:

with the tons of useless comments per thread im not surprised that PGI cant listen to the actual few good thoughts.
would you read 40 pages of useless cr*p to fish out 20 good suggestions?

i bet you wouldnt. but its happening each time and our pretty community cant change that behaviour at all.
i find that damn sad.

Its called context, but yes, the three mech rule AND current skill system were called "placeholders" in closed beta, then to said "meh, we are keeping it"

Like I said you spend 4000XP on every mech that you elite for a function that hasn't worked in two and a half years.

[Alienized]

Juodas Varnas, on 12 September 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

At least it's obvious that the community's feedback is overwhelmingly NEGATIVE.

and that should help? 90% of the comments here are totally useless and pointless. i doubt anything will change if we, the community, stop our terrible behaviour first.

Yokaiko, on 12 September 2015 - 05:53 AM, said:

Its called context, but yes, the three mech rule AND current skill system were called "placeholders" in closed beta, then to said "meh, we are keeping it"

Like I said you spend 4000XP on every mech that you elite for a function that hasn't worked in two and a half years.

who cares about a single damn skill. really. skill tree stuff will be redone propably next year. until then nothings gonna get hurt from a useless skill that is useless to every player here. no benefits nor negatives from that.

[oldradagast]

Alienized, on 12 September 2015 - 05:35 AM, said:

*popcorn time*

FIRST step of the balance. everyone goes nuts.

yeah..... its just the beginning.. cant you all just wait and test before threadbombing the sh*t out of here....
we dont even know whats coming the next step so why the hell are you all such whiney knobheads?

ffs.....

The problem is that PGI has demonstrated ZERO ability to properly balance anything or use feedback data in any meaningful way.

- Look at Community Warfare, a nearly dead trainwreck that has been fiddled with countless times for no reason

- Ghost Heat still lives, despite everyone hating it and recognizing it as a band-aid "fix"

- They still refuse to do anything about pinpioint damage, the heart of all problems in this game, despite having a cone of fire already implemented for machine guns and jumping mechs.

- Consider the disturbing number of times they've released utterly broken and unplayable patches (3 times at least with the 3-3-3-3 matchmaker system, various LRM-ageddon scenarios, and the list keeps going) that should never have seen the light of day.

No, PGI does everything to one level - minimally viable. They can't use data, they won't playtest, and they have zero ability to approach the game's balance issues with logic and reason. The quirk-madness on display here could not have been done worse had it been produced by a random number generator or an insane AI. And, in true PGI fashion, they'll probably tweak a few numbers - and make it worse - and then roll it out... and then promise a re-re-re-balancing a few months later... after you hopefully buy the next mech pack where the mechs just happened to have great quirks... for now.

Edited by oldradagast, 12 September 2015 - 05:57 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Alienized, on 12 September 2015 - 05:55 AM, said:

who cares about a single damn skill. really. skill tree stuff will be redone propably next year. until then nothings gonna get hurt from a useless skill that is useless to every player here. no benefits nor negatives from that.

Except a couple hours of game time, I own something like 134 mechs, that is about 10 days of playtime completely wasted often in chassis that I can't stand.

[oldradagast]

Alienized, on 12 September 2015 - 05:50 AM, said:

with the tons of useless comments per thread im not surprised that PGI cant listen to the actual few good thoughts.
would you read 40 pages of useless cr*p to fish out 20 good suggestions?

i bet you wouldnt. but its happening each time and our pretty community cant change that behaviour at all.
i find that damn sad.

Pfff... Useless comments? Really? The comments here point out the insane "balancing" attempts and the horrible flaws in the new system. Maybe you consider that useless. Maybe you're driving one of the mechs that is getting super double-plus-good quirks in the new Unbalancing pass, so you don't care. Maybe you're just a white knight... but it is PGI's job to listen to customer feedback; otherwise, they can go out of business.

[Alienized]

oldradagast, on 12 September 2015 - 05:56 AM, said:

The problem is that PGI has demonstrated ZERO ability to properly balance anything or use feedback data in any meaningful way.

- Look at Community Warfare, a nearly dead trainwreck that has been fiddled with countless times for no reason

- Ghost Heat still lives, despite everyone hating it and recognizing it as a band-aid "fix"

- They still refuse to do anything about pinpioint damage, the heart of all problems in this game, despite having a cone of fire already implemented for machine guns and jumping mechs.

- Consider the disturbing number of times they've released utterly broken and unplayable patches (3 times at least with the 3-3-3-3 matchmaker system, various LRM-ageddon scenarios, and the list keeps going) that should never have seen the light of day.

No, PGI does everything to one level - minimally viable. They can't use data, they won't playtest, and they have zero ability to approach the game's balance issues with logic and reason. The quirk-madness on display here could not have been done worse had it been produced by a random number generator or an insane AI. And, in true PGI fashion, they'll probably tweak a few numbers - and make it worse - and then roll it out... and then promise a re-re-re-balancing a few months later... after you hopefully buy the next mech pack where the mechs just happened to have great quirks... for now.

the only players that hate ghost heat are those that cant get around it by using a mixture of weapons.
its a pity that its an easy thing to avoid ghost heat so easily and people still complaining about it.
no precious 9 ppc builds... how sad... not.

im not even sure why everyone like those overdone weapon quirks we had before. it was pure awful.
some mechs went overgodly, some just sked harder than before. nothing really changed. it even went worse than before quirks. powercreep after powercreep but no balance been done.

and, i would not give a damn about the feedback of such a hyperbole threadnaughting community either.
its hilarious that some people think a dev should listen to the guys that cry out the loudest first.

with the massive amount of crying each patch, a fix happens and the crying about the fix from other guys who thought it was better before the fix.... why should PGI listen to ANYTHING? all that happens is a massive cry ANYWAY. no matter which direction they go.

[Weeny Machine]

Alienized, on 12 September 2015 - 05:35 AM, said:

*popcorn time*

FIRST step of the balance. everyone goes nuts.

yeah..... its just the beginning.. cant you all just wait and test before threadbombing the sh*t out of here....
we dont even know whats coming the next step so why the hell are you all such whiney knobheads?

ffs.....

Yeah, why voice your concern about the missing weapon quirks. We can wait till near finalization!

[Lootee]

Lolz. Are we ready for Steam yet?

[Alienized]

Bush Hopper, on 12 September 2015 - 06:06 AM, said:

Yeah, why voice your concern about the missing weapon quirks. We can wait till near finalization!

because weapon quirks achieved WHAT? nothing. some mechs been playable, most not. main problem stays.

[Yokaiko]

Alienized, on 12 September 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

because weapon quirks achieved WHAT? nothing. some mechs been playable, most not. main problem stays.

Yeah, well this system sure doesn't fix it.

What it does accomplish is set the game balance back a year, to the clan invasion, because the strong clan mechs are stronger in comparison, and the IS...

....well ouch.

Edited by Yokaiko, 12 September 2015 - 06:11 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Alienized, on 12 September 2015 - 05:35 AM, said:

*popcorn time*

FIRST step of the balance. everyone goes nuts.

yeah..... its just the beginning.. cant you all just wait and test before threadbombing the sh*t out of here....
we dont even know whats coming the next step so why the hell are you all such whiney knobheads?

ffs.....

well, sry but this beginning is bad, it just showed that PGI didn't even had a rough idea where the "blance should go" meta mechs currently are offering bigger gaps as before. and even within the quirks given there is neither sense nor consistency. I went through a few clanemchs and fund non where interpod balance made any sesne, and I just stopped giving feedback when trying to give it for a single mec. It is far from "somewhat working as balance". Main reason is the entire "taregetting thing" it is valued too highby PGI, while in fact it hardly matters in gameplay.

They entirely need to "retry" this.

And weapon quirks would have been workeing when given in the right amount. entirely removing them? good what for? instant targetting emchs that actually don't work on ecm cover? No one needs binary systems, lrm' showed these by not being existent in higher player skill ranks. "See something, shoot it" thats the major factor in MWO. and targetting is not needed for this. So mechs good at shooting will still be no.1 coice.

Edited by Lily from animove, 12 September 2015 - 06:15 AM.

[oldradagast]

Alienized, on 12 September 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

and, i would not give a damn about the feedback of such a hyperbole threadnaughting community either.
its hilarious that some people think a dev should listen to the guys that cry out the loudest first.

So, what's your solution, other than making excuses for everything PGI does and claiming "it'll get better" with absolutely no data to support your position? We've given you countless examples of PGI's consistent failures in delivering, and you just try to brush them away as "people complaining." Yeah, well - facts are facts, even if you don't like them:

- Weapons quirks were the only way IS could compete with Clans

- The new quirks are a total illogical mess that makes bad mechs worse and good mechs better, and the nature of the changes proves that PGI has no clue what they are doing.

- The "whiners" you so hate are paying customers who have a right to be outraged by seeing the product they bought be turned into a steaming pile of unplayable idiocy, as is being proposed by the Unbalancing on the test server.

Buy, hey - if you want to live in a world where pointing out facts is "whining" and expecting competence from a company who's products you bought is "being negative," be my guest. Just don't expect anyone else to join you.

Edited by oldradagast, 12 September 2015 - 06:13 AM.

[Alienized]

Lily from animove, on 12 September 2015 - 06:12 AM, said:

well, sry but this beginning is bad, it just showed that PGI didn't even had a rough idea where the "blance should go" meta mechs currently are offering bigger gaps as before. and even within the quirks given there is neither sense nor consistency. I went through a few clanemchs and fund non where interpod balance made any sesne, and I just stopped giving feedback when trying to give it for a single mec. It is far from "somewhat working as balance". Main reason is the entire "taregetting thing" it is valued too highby PGI, while in fact it hardly matters in gameplay.

They entirely need to "retry" this.

they are trying to do it. i agree that targetting is overvalued but the first step to get information warfare in here is always the hardest.
removing weapon quirks? i love it.

shall we do a bet that the quirks will change drastically after a first test? i bet they will do.

oldradagast, on 12 September 2015 - 06:13 AM, said:

So, what's your solution, other than making excuses for everything PGI does and claiming "it'll get better" with absolutely no data to support your position? We've given you countless examples of PGI's consistent failures in delivering, and you just try to brush them away as "people complaining." Yeah, well - facts are facts, even if you don't like them:

- Weapons quirks were the only way IS could compete with Clans

- The new quirks are a total illogical mess that makes bad mechs worse and good mechs better, and the nature of the changes proves that PGI has no clue what they are doing.

- The "whiners" you so hate are paying customers who have a right to be outraged by seeing the product they bought be turned into a steaming pile of unplayable idiocy, as is being proposed by the Unbalancing on the test server.

Buy, hey - if you want to live in a world where pointing out facts is "whining" and expecting competence from a company who's products you bought is "being negative," be my guest. Just don't expect anyone else to join you.

i literally bought every pack this year. and i dont hate myself, sorry. there are people that arent pissed to the max when their toys are nerfed a bit for balance sake. they accept stuff rather than beeing a crybaby about it.

the mistakes that PGI done? hardpoint inflation and full customization.
can they redo that? no. they cant. imagine how many of you would cry if you would not be able to laserboat with 6+ energy slots apart from those that had it lore wise.

also, there are people that know everything has to start somewhere. rest goes from there.
it might currently look weird to most of us (me included) but im NOT instantly bashing around heavily as most here automatically do.

pointing out facts is a good thing but you should not think your point of view of that fact is the only point you can have.
if you stay egoistic on all the facts you think are true then nothing will be better.

people in here are not willing to take a different look on things. to move from their own points. its been like that for more than a year now.

and every patch, every little thing that might change it starts over again.

Edited by Alienized, 12 September 2015 - 06:24 AM.

[Galenit]

Alienized, on 12 September 2015 - 06:23 AM, said:

they are trying to do it. i agree that targetting is overvalued but the first step to get information warfare in here is always the hardest.

No!
The first step would be to remove the magic jesus box.
If the magic jesus box stays, it removes the purpose of a sensor system, because the magic jesus box hard counters it. It doesnt matter if the box is 180 or 90m, its still the magic jesus box that makes the whole sensorthing obsolente.

After finding a way to implement ecm without being the magic jesus box they need to balance lrms to it, (This the hardest point!)

Then they can play with sensorranges, Its not the first, its the last step.


But thats our devs, balancing by dices, starting with the last step first and seeing their players on an island ....

Edit:
The sensorthing is another example of not going to the source, like ghostheat and other bandaids ....

Edited by Galenit, 12 September 2015 - 06:49 AM.

[Alienized]

Galenit, on 12 September 2015 - 06:45 AM, said:

No!
The first step would be to remove the magic jesus box.
If the magic jesus box stays, it removes the purpose of a sensor system, because the magic jesus box hard counters it. It doesnt matter if the box is 180 or 90m, its still the magic jesus box that makes the whole sensorthing obsolente.

After finding a way to implement ecm without being the magic jesus box they need to balance lrms to it, (This the hardest point!)

Then they can play with sensorranges, Its not the first, its the last step.


But thats our devs, balancing by dices, starting with the last step first and seeing their players on an island ....

why should ecm be a problem?
the sheer amount of ECM is what makes it problematic but the positions for each map are always the same.
its no rocket science to find out where the enemy will be on all the maps out there.
apart from some lone guys that absolutely hate to play meta. guys like me love to punish the dude's that play soo obvious that it has to hurt. it usually hurts the back of their mechs very hard.