108 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

Outcast16, on 13 September 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

There should be almost NO chance for a light mech or 2 to kill heavy or assault mechs.

One-on-one, and with equal pilot skill, a light should have about a 50% chance of winning against an assault. Two-on-one, the assault should have to be lucky or really, really good to escape alive.

Why? Because rock-paper-scissors balance is the only way to keep this game from suffering a permanent loss of all lights and mediums.

Light beats assault. Assault beats heavy. Heavy beats medium. Medium beats light. Light beats assault. That's the way it needs to be. One natural prey and one natural predator for every weight class.

At the moment, heavies and assaults are way too agile for this to be true; when you play against people who can actually aim, a light has approximately zero chance against an assault. All it takes is one well-aimed lolpha and it's all over.

[White Bear 84]

I wanted to share some thoughts on this but my infotech uplink was mysteriously disconnected before I had the chance t.........

[Anunknownlurker]

I have to disagree with one of your points Outcast16 as I think it misses one of the points of light mechs in this game; lights should be perfectly capable, in the right hands, of taking down an assault: think of it like this, in WW2 an MTB (very fast, very mobile, armed with torpedoes) was perfectly capable of taking out a ship 1000 times its size as long as it didn't get hit! It comes down to the relative skill of the pilots.

In MWO light mechs can be extremely hard hitting and rely on their mobility and stealth to take down vastly "superior" chassis, this is what fast mediums are for(Cicada, Blackjack etc - the destroyers of this game to continue the nautical theme), protecting the fatties and scaring off or hunting down the fast movers.

[Outcast1six]

Ahh. But role warfare.

oh how many times has the lone light mech taken out the assault? In fairness let me clarify. Certain light mechs. Cheetahs, starters and jenners, spiders would be in this class if they could boat anything other than machine guns. I can see the role of harassers, but most assault mechs, especially the tall ones suffer a simple thing as not being able to concentrate enough firepower on a circling light. Yes you get lucky with an AC/20 or gauss shot periodically, but by and large it is a losing proposition for the assault.

My main concern is the heavy emphasis put on DPS, damage and that match score hinges mostly on this and nothing else. You want ROLE WARFARE? Make it desirable to play a role other than, "I got top damage." or "I did 500+ damage in my light mech." This game, as it stands is DEATH MATCH. My team kills your team faster. There is NO ROLE OTHER THAN DAMAGE. I reiterate my raven example. I have both the 3L and 3L(C). I, like most other players, pulled the NARC and TAG off both machines.

Yes I get a small bonus for scouting, NARC, TAG and ECM and Counter ECM. I also get scouting, ECM and counter ECM bonuses in my assaults, so what's the point?

Weapon quirks are fine, sensor quirks are fine, don't really care for armor and structure quirks (that seems counter to actually "building" a mech. P.S. if I an using a shield arm with +20 armour and I strip it down to 1, with the quirk I have 21 armor, cool more weight for ammo/heatsinks. What? It has 1 armor.

These are just my observations.

EDIT: Actual teams that play are a different animal entirely. My guys designate an ECM carrier during CW to cover the rest of the team. There can be a "ROLE", but only if there is organization to support that role and the role supports the organization. But new players? Pick up matches? Not really.

EDIT2: I agree that light mechs should be capable of killing any mech, in the right hands, but all things being equal, it should be VERY difficult for a machine 1/3 the weight to kill an assault. It diminishes the role of the assault.

Edited by Outcast16, 13 September 2015 - 09:23 AM.

[Elizander]

The PTS data certainly made people who were aware of it hesitate on their hero mech sale purchases.

I guess the Hellslinger owners are pretty upset about the loss of their environmental quirk which made their purchase feel unique.

[stjobe]

Outcast16, on 13 September 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

EDIT2: I agree that light mechs should be capable of killing any mech, in the right hands, but all things being equal, it should be VERY difficult for a machine 1/3 the weight to kill an assault. It diminishes the role of the assault.

The role it diminishes is "best in all aspects" which isn't a role we want; viability shouldn't be determined by weight alone.

Assaults are (or at least should be) the most armoured, most heavily armed, but least agile weight class. Lights, on the other hand, are the least armoured, least heavily armed, but extremely fast and agile. If that agility cannot be used to at least have a 50/50 chance against the slowest, least agile weight class, it is of no use at all.

As I said above, at equal pilot skill a light should have a 50/50 chance of taking out an assault. Assaults should prey on heavies, not lights.

[oldradagast]

coe7, on 12 September 2015 - 04:02 PM, said:

Worst is that most mechs feel and play totally different than people who have grown to like them. You are already old game, making this drastic changes and removing alot of flavor aquired over the years is going to be undoing of MWO.

This. This is the thing that scares me most. They are going to break our toys that we wasted hours of time leveling and possibly even real world money to shoehorn them into some awful, cobbled together Infotek system where mechs now can have "roles" of "being useless."

They should not be shocked when people up and leave once what they've bought is broken for them.

[KraftySOT]

stjobe, on 13 September 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Light beats assault. Assault beats heavy. Heavy beats medium. Medium beats light. Light beats assault. That's the way it needs to be. One natural prey and one natural predator for every weight class.

So much this.

[Dimento Graven]

Paul Inouye, on 12 September 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

Hey folks, we're shutting down the PTS servers for now. There just aren't enough participants at the moment. We will take another look at putting the test server back up for shorter amounts of time so we don't detract from any other event like the double XP event going on right now. This also gives us a chance to make a few changes and fixes due to feedback, metrics and those typos that gave certain 'Mechs quirk values in the 1000's!

I actually disagree, it makes it hard to analyze the numbers given without having access to the test server.

NOW, if PGI could provide a listing of the 'mechs and omnipods with their associated quirk values somewhere, we could go through and analyze it.

[KraftySOT]

Dimento Graven, on 13 September 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

I actually disagree, it makes it hard to analyze the numbers given without having access to the test server.

NOW, if PGI could provide a listing of the 'mechs and omnipods with their associated quirk values somewhere, we could go through and analyze it.

Sarlic made one I think in .pdf...its around here somewhere.

[Dimento Graven]

KraftySOT, on 13 September 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

Sarlic made one I think in .pdf...its around here somewhere.

Thanks, if I find it, I'll post a link here...

[xXRyanMechMetalXx]

I Would like to know when the servers wll be back up i have been waiting for hours to play on the PTS servers...

[KraftySOT]

Tomorrow morning.

[Captain Artemis]

Be reading all that posts, I had the filling that this patch was not released in the PTS but on the public servers...

Adding something new to the game is not why everyone was whining for a long time? Of course the implementation of the Information Warfare in current state is wrong, that why is under tests. Same with the weapons quirks, the statement is clear, the power creep is too high, so they want to redone it, but not right now. I would personally like the game to become more tactical, rather than becoming Counter Strike in case of the damage.
Rather than crying and whining, that your precious Thunderbolt won't wub the entire enemy team, share your thoughts how to improve the game, like Kanajashi -

[oldradagast]

Captain Artemis, on 13 September 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

Be reading all that posts, I had the filling that this patch was not released in the PTS but on the public servers...

Adding something new to the game is not why everyone was whining for a long time? Of course the implementation of the Information Warfare in current state is wrong, that why is under tests. Same with the weapons quirks, the statement is clear, the power creep is too high, so they want to redone it, but not right now. I would personally like the game to become more tactical, rather than becoming Counter Strike in case of the damage.
Rather than crying and whining, that your precious Thunderbolt won't wub the entire enemy team, share your thoughts how

Hey, I'm going to add something new to your car - it's called a ruptured fuel line, cool? Because you wanted something new on your car, right?

At this point, I'm sure the white-knights don't even read posts that from people disgusted with that was on the test server. Nobody, anywhere, posted a complaint that the game "needed" a handful of viable mechs with super-quirks. They did, however, accurately point out that IS mechs cannot compete with baseline Clans without weapon quirks, and that trying to balance the "infotech" part of the game while ignoring the core game mechanics - the ability to kill enemy mechs - is idiotic. It's like designing a car by starting with the tires.

As for giving useful feedback, the forums are full of it, but at what point does one give up? Do we really need to write up an essay explaining why buffing the Direwolf and Timberwolf while applying nerfs to most IS mechs might not be a good idea? If PGI is not aware of what the current meta is - and why it is - then they must be flushing all their telemetry data straight into the recycle bin... which is where I expect most of the feedback will go, too.

Edited by oldradagast, 13 September 2015 - 02:13 PM.

[Captain Artemis]

There are plenty things that are wrong in MWO, nor i'm not saying it's the perfect game, everyone of us know that.

But to make the things simple, I would rather like the light mechs to become scouts (and earning money/xp for their job) rather than damage seekers, who don't care if he is blocking 85 ton Battlemaster who is in exchange of fire with Dire Wolf. I want this game to become more like a simulator.

Not even saying that with all this sensor things, using LRM's would lead to the point that it requires skills or teamwork.

[SkyHammyr]

stjobe, on 13 September 2015 - 04:50 AM, said:

Never heard of glassdoor, so of course I googled it. Whoa.

Seems the rumours about PGI's management at least has some basis in reality...

Holy Smoke...
That was scary to read.

[stjobe]

Captain Artemis, on 13 September 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

But to make the things simple, I would rather like the light mechs to become scouts (and earning money/xp for their job) rather than damage seekers, who don't care if he is blocking 85 ton Battlemaster who is in exchange of fire with Dire Wolf. I want this game to become more like a simulator.

Let me guess, you're usually in that Battlemaster, right?

So, let me ask you - when us lights have found you your targets, what do you want us to do for the rest of the match? Watch in awe as your Battlemaster exchanges fire with the Dire Wolf? Gape at your prowess as you have fun playing the game while those unfortunate souls who had the audacity to drop in lights hang their heads in shame? Or do you just want us to bask in your glory and comment on how manly you are?

FFS, in a shooting game there's exactly zero room for a unit that cannot fight.

I don't mind lights getting better at scouting, but to hear it from you bus drivers that's all you want us to do. And that way lies a game devoid of all lights and mediums.

Which is a dead game.

[KraftySOT]

Yeah GlassDoor can be a scary read.

oldradagast, on 13 September 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

Hey, I'm going to add something new to your car - it's called a ruptured fuel line, cool?

Its really like they replaced our OnStar with GPS, but removed the engine, seats, and steering wheel.

[Captain Artemis]

stjobe, on 13 September 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

Let me guess, you're usually in that Battlemaster, right?

So, let me ask you - when us lights have found you your targets, what do you want us to do for the rest of the match? Watch in awe as your Battlemaster exchanges fire with the Dire Wolf? Gape at your prowess as you have fun playing the game while those unfortunate souls who had the audacity to drop in lights hang their heads in shame? Or do you just want us to bask in your glory and comment on how manly you are?

FFS, in a shooting game there's exactly zero room for a unit that cannot fight.

I don't mind lights getting better at scouting, but to hear it from you bus drivers that's all you want us to do. And that way lies a game devoid of all lights and mediums.

Which is a dead game.

I have never said that light should do only scouting. I have pointed out this example that is burned in my mind, when the light mech pilot is only in pursuit to do damage, even by leading you to your death (by blocking my tactical retreat in exchange of fire) then it's just wrong. I have never said that light mechs need to just sit and watch how the big boys do the job. Light mech running around the battlefield, seeking and striking at exposed structure to do the final blow that can save my ass when I'm piloting medium/heavy/assault is great thing, at least I try to do that in my firestarter, even if I am not playing with my friends.

Edited by Captain Artemis, 13 September 2015 - 03:11 PM.