717 replies to this topic

[M A N T I S]

MerryIguana, on 21 June 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

The pips on the hud? Or did they take that out too?

The directional arrow:

• was meant for training new players
  
• cannot be seen unless looking mostly downward
  
• clips in uneven ground or water
  
• breaks immersion... it feels like a cheaty thing.

Not used by me, ever. Find it distracting... obviously, it's turned on now to my great disappointment.

[Dr Mlem]

I absolutely hate this new Minimap. It is seriously terrible.

• It is seriously hard to see anything, just looks like red blobs. Even seeing yourself
  
• Diffrence with World of Tanks and Mechwarrior is that it's actually EASY to see around you in wot, and get your directions. In Mechwarrior you're literally looking through a little window. The map it super important to help.
  
• Should be centered on your mech at all times. No clue why its not.
  
• Too far out, no zoom options
  
• Stupid icons that aren't needed. Seriously make them directional triangles again
  
• You can make the map window bigger in wot, depending on your liking. In MW you can't, and its far too small for such a large zoom out.

No clue how this came to live, any excitement I had for resizes was completely diminished by the sheer blindness I felt piloting my mech around. Even in a good vision mech, with large windows. Its confusing, and I can barely even tell where enemy mechs are in relation to me.

Seriously, I hope the either hotfix this or something. Please burn it in a fire, and never bring it back. This isn't World of Tanks, stop taking map ideas from them.

Infuriating part is this was literally dropped on us, without any feedback, mass testing, or seemingly any thought to usability.

Edited by KariLP, 21 June 2016 - 01:53 PM.

[Cizjut]

I know you're trying to rationalize it but there's no way. Stop.

This piece of **** took manpower and dev time that could have been actual content and balance changes. Maybe a working FW queue.

It's ****. Accept it and accept it's not going to be fixed any way soon. MWO is ******.

[Radbane]

Yellonet, on 21 June 2016 - 01:42 PM, said:

Do I? Why would you need the map for that? The new minimap isn't really meant to be used like that, it's to get the large picture. If you really need a minimap to give you any combat SA you're lucky you've had that crutch until now.

The same could be said for a minimap that shows the large picture? Do you really need that? Where's your awerness? Besides, we have B for the large picture.

Truth be told, I'd rather remove the minimap completely than have the new one. Who needs crutches, right?

[Feral Goose]

wanderer, on 21 June 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

PGI did this:



Only they released it half done and butchered almost beyond recognition.

No, it's about perspective. PGI actually did this:

Edited by Feral Goose, 21 June 2016 - 01:58 PM.

[Metalcell]

Fix the map PGI!

[Yellonet]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 June 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

You know what what is a crutch? The reticle. Hell, the whole HUD. Remove that, and we'll weed out the bads and have a better have through Darwinian selection!

Not really, the reticule is an integral part of any shooting game, that's how you aim.
The old minimap took away almost all player skill concerning situational awareness as all info was supplied to everyone.
I often see people around here claim in a negative tone that the game caters to the lowest common denominator, but when something is introduced that goes away from this and rewards skill, the whining starts.

[LordKnightFandragon]

I find that new minimap completely and utterly useless. The little icons on the map, they all just look like little red circles with something in the middle.

I found the Hull to Turret facing relation is now the little heading arrows at the top of the compass, but as a whole, the minimap is kinda pointless. I guess at least now we know how much of the map we have left till we hit a border....past that.....its pointless.

[Cherry Garden full of Blue Roses]

Well, I think you forget about one thing, called BATTLEGRID. Dammit, it exist from very begin of MWO. The new mini map is perfect to be Battlegrid and there it is. But, why at the place of mini map happens such a disaster? In place of mini map just have to be zoomed at piloted mech map. For larger view, there still is Battlegrid. What hard is in it to understand it? PGI just wasted time, money and our nerves making new mini map, that's all.

[Paitr aConn]

', on 21 June 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

Not really, the reticule is an integral part of any shooting game, that's how you aim.
The old minimap took away almost all player skill concerning situational awareness as all info was supplied to everyone.
I often see people around here claim in a negative tone that the game caters to the lowest common denominator, but when something is introduced that goes away from this and rewards skill, the whining starts.

A minimap that acts like radar is integral to most shooters as well
Something tells me you just enjoy denigrating those who disagree with you.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Idealsuspect, on 21 June 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

I like this minimap just for see ( again ) how people are bad at this game xD

Idealsuspect, on 21 June 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

Lol also its worst than expected xD even average players did become bad with this new mini map.
Worst but totally logical...

I fail to understand your logic mate. Being used to utilise tools available to maximise situational awareness is a sign of a bad player? I bet 95% of those 'bad' players (including me now) wander around like idiots because they're busy staring at the new minimap trying to gather info they needed about 1 second to gather previously. Some of it is just because it's different, but some also because it just fails to deliver that info in a legible manner.
By your logic we could remove crosshairs and then mock the people who have trouble aiming, because pros remember where is the exact middle of their screen at all times.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 21 June 2016 - 01:53 PM.

[Moldur]

Did it ever occur to you that PGI knows what they are doing? Ok ok, that is a loaded statement, but still.

The minimap is almost inarguably worse in the amount of *useful* information it gives you than it did before. It changes the dynamic of the game because we cannot be as dependent upon the minimap as we used to. Situational awareness as a state of being has been lowered, as it is no longer simply given to us. Instead we must now compensate with situational awareness as a skill. That is the main facet, as I see it at least. Feel free to argue that or make your own conjectures.

Maybe that was on purpose. Maybe you guys yelling about how bad it is are just preaching to the choir.

I see it as:
"Hey you turned my X into Y"
Yes, because it is supposed to be Y.

I am not a white knight, but I see this as PGI taking initiative and being proactive in realizing a vision for the game instead of being completely reactive and spending months to grant genie-wish balance passes for whoever screams loudest.

I understand that I am throwing one more stick into the pile with this thread among all the other minimap threads, but think back to when the newest UI was released. There was a veritable **** tornado (shitstorm, if you will) about how it was clunky, unintuitive, time consuming, etc. But guess what? PGI didn't revert it, they stood their ground, and today nobody even thinks of the UI as an issue to consider. It simply exists (for the most part, I know this'll get you UI 1.0 folks coming out of the woodwork.)

So, my offer is this: give it some time. Adjust to the new minimap. Look at the game as a whole and think about how the new minimap factors in. Maybe a week, 2, 3, down the road Bishop or somebody will have a "New Minimap: In Review" thread where we'll look back on this and have a wonder why so many people were freaking out.

Edited by Moldur, 21 June 2016 - 01:53 PM.

[Cizjut]

It's so bad it might just as well not be there.

Don't buy a thing from MWO until it's fixed.

[Vellron2005]

I really dont see why the new minimap is missing zoom capabilities and arrows.. Those things are basic and vital..

It feels like a half-product, and makes it like I'm playing in 3rd person view.. the map is useless now.. just tiny squares on a featureless canvas (becase the features that are there are tiny and you can't see them)

They need to hotfix the shebang out of this one..

[Scalien]

Scalien, on 21 June 2016 - 12:49 PM, said:

Try to keep this thread on tips and tactics. There are enough complain treads out there already.

Well, 1 of 11 replies managing to do this simple thing is, I guess, impressive. Maybe I'm just an idiot for asking too much from this player base.

[Lyoto Machida]

SuomiWarder, on 21 June 2016 - 01:30 PM, said:

Actually if you can use a real map, this one is not a real issue. The main thing to memorize is left side/ride side of your triangle carrot pointer. Think of it as if you are sitting in a race car and the pointer is the nose. Regardless of your direction of travel (North, west, whatever) anything to the left of the point is a left turn to go towards. Same thing to the right.

I would say it is the same as writing out a turn list while looking at a paper map and imagining where you car is headed to know if left or right is the desired direction. But maybe that is a mostly lost skill these days.

More and more in the US, driving a manual is a lost skill. Not even really a necessary one, as fast shifting DCT transmissions shift faster than manuals when used by regular, non race drivers.

Why am I bringing this up? Reading a map the old school way is not really necessary these days, unless you lose power...in which case, you've probably got serious problems. Knowing how to navigate the map the old school way is a good backup skill to have but usually impractical in today's society. There's no reason for PGI to implement such a convoluted system when the old way was perfectly fine. It would be like removing HUDs from military jets and forcing pilots to read directly from instrument clusters again. Sure, they could do it and adapt but it's not the most efficient way of doing things.

[nywg]

If it is to push people into using voip and staying grouped then it works in a way......otherwise if looking to set up a crossfire on the new map your stuck.
Eyes forward, shoot things!!
Option to toggle between the old and new mini map would be cool but maybe the zoom will sort it.

[Bulletsponge0]

M A N T I S, on 21 June 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

The directional arrow:

• was meant for training new players
  
• cannot be seen unless looking mostly downward
  
• clips in uneven ground or water
  
• breaks immersion... it feels like a cheaty thing.

Not used by me, ever. Find it distracting... obviously, it's turned on now to my great disappointment.

you're confusing the leg orientation arrow with the field of view marker on the old minimap

[Yellonet]

Radbane, on 21 June 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

The same could be said for a minimap that shows the large picture? Do you really need that? Where's your awerness? Besides, we have B for the large picture.

Truth be told, I'd rather remove the minimap completely than have the new one. Who needs crutches, right?

Yep. I'd rather remove it altogether than have the old one back. It just takes so much of the game away.

The old minimap and the instant and too good info you get is the reason why:

• Deathballing works so well
  
• TTK is low
  
• Stomps happen all the time

[Accused]

Moldur, on 21 June 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:

How about get used to it. I remember when the new UI came out, tons of people complained and said it was practically unusable.

Guess what? Nobody complains about it anymore.

The UI, and this website, is crap. Do not forget that. People will always have other things to complain about because PGI always give us another reason. But you know what? PGI will "eventually" get around to fixing the UI and maybe updating this website "when they have time".