218 replies to this topic

[Mergatroid Skittle]

Zetawolf, on 30 October 2015 - 05:50 PM, said:

OK, so I just played another two games.

1. Victory, match score 587 4 kills 6 assists 844 damage

2. Victory, match score 461 5 kills 5 assists 682 damage

And the bar moved.... nearly imperceptibly.

At the rate it seems to be going it would take 15-20 games exactly like my past two to get to rank 3.

Is this broken, or is it intentional for ranking up to take a ridiculously long time? Based on the criteria stated, I should have gained a large amount of rank points given that I won and achieved a high match score, which are the only things that affect rank point gain.

It's all relative. Maybe the system is designed to take 15-20 "positive" scoring matches to raise your Tier. I don't think we should be too concerned about how long it takes to move between Tiers.

My main concern is that it appears to be way too heavily weighted on Win/Loss. You might have a solid game with 700 damage and 3-4 kills, but you lose and your score goes down. That doesn't seem right. By the same token, you could have 100 damage with 0 kills, but you win and your score goes up.

[Rock God]

Zetawolf, on 30 October 2015 - 05:50 PM, said:

OK, so I just played another two games.

1. Victory, match score 587 4 kills 6 assists 844 damage

2. Victory, match score 461 5 kills 5 assists 682 damage

And the bar moved.... nearly imperceptibly.

At the rate it seems to be going it would take 15-20 games exactly like my past two to get to rank 3.

Is this broken, or is it intentional for ranking up to take a ridiculously long time? Based on the criteria stated, I should have gained a large amount of rank points given that I won and achieved a high match score, which are the only things that affect rank point gain.

Generally anyway, the game does not reward tactics. Making a missile boat because you enjoy making 600+ dmg is great. Running around capturing or spotting is great. But honestly, claiming you're playing as more of a team-spirit guy because you run around spotting or because you stay back and wait for others to get shot at (aka, be a LRM missile boat).... both can be seen as non team behavior depending on the players around you.

What the game would need for actual tactics is a tactical display, and guess what? That is what the Cockpit Command Console is for. This game lacks a role.
This is evident in the fact Lance Commanders are utterly useless, but even in the fact that Teamspeak is the most efficient tool for a group of players.

There should be a guy doing full-time command, with a console running a few orders (Lance 3, Mech 2 go scout H6, Lance 1, Mech 2 get to A2, fire at will, Lance 2 go push D6, Lance 3, Mech 1 diversion at H2 and pull back after engagement).
Players complying get rewarded, others get penalized.

Only heavies and assaults can take Team Command, which gives them access to combat overlay and appropriate command system.

Problem fixed.

[CDLord HHGD]

[Colonel Clunge]

Colonel Clunge, on 12 November 2015 - 05:50 AM, said:

Okay - my penny's worth.

Like a lot of you commenting I am a Tier 4 player. I would class myself as an average player. I was awful to begin with but now consistently deal around 300-400 damage in my mediums (the class I usually pilot). I agree that the biggest flaw in the system is the fact that it is unfairly biased towards wins which are very rarely within your control to fundamentally influence if you are playing PUGs. We've all been there when other pilots in your team have ignored the tactics communicated or you have 2 discos and you inevitably lose. In this situation not only are you going to be on the losing team but the chance of you scoring more damage is greatly reduced - the longer you survive the more damage you score in my experience. I feel the PSR should be much more based on individual performance but that your score should take more notice of factors other than damage so that your contribution doesn't rest so heavily on damage scored.

If the PSR tiers were based on historical data do we know what data they are using? If it's W/L ratio this is unfair for all the reasons above. If it's KDR, this is also surely unfair as if you pilot lighter mechs your KDR is always going to be less than heavier mechs (isn't it?). If it's based on matchscore then this is also unfair due to the way match score is currently calculated due to its focus on wins and damage dealt (which will always benefit the heavier mechs and to a certain extent the Clanners due to the weapon loadouts they can carry)

These flaws in the PSR only serve to highlight the more fundamental issues with how PGI construct the rewards/progression system. I have often had a great match working as best I can with others and because we have lost the match the Exp and C-bill reward is tiny. If you happen to be unlucky in your PUG drops you can play several matches with a very paltry Exp gain. The other issue is that reward seems to be far too weighted in favour of damage scored. I know their are weightings to the score vs damage dealt based on weight class but for me this isn't enough. My thought was that they should weight all of the various rewards based on class - so that light mechs get bigger bonuses for the support actions such as scouting etc - wouldn't this encourage more role playing in game rather than having such a focus on wading in and causing damage? Lance in grouping rewards could increase to encourage teamwork. ECM mechs get bigger rewards for jamming locks etc.Now this might already be in operation but I haven't seen anything to suggest this.

The other point I wanted to make (that slightly goes against the popular PGI just trying to squeeze money out of us conspiracy theories) is that i reckon that if you want to improve you skill rank you should only ever pilot Mastered mechs as I am pretty awful with my mechs until those double effects bonuses are unlocked. This seems to be particularly relevant with Assaults who seem to be sitting ducks until torso twists are mastered.Could rewards be linked to progress on mech unlocks to make it more fair?

At the moment, I'm pretty disillusioned at the whole progress system, PSR being the worst of the lot.

[Lugh]

XX Sulla XX, on 22 September 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

5 is the worst and 1 is the best. Change seems to be mostly based on win loss with a chance to move or stay the same in a loss if you do really really well.

Not entirely true. 5 is the least skilled with the least play time.

1 is the folks with the most games played, period. Some have a clue. Others have been carried there by virtue of PGI weighting wins giving more of bump than losses give. Tier 1 doesn't mean you are THEBESTDAMNMECHWARRIORTHEREIS. It does however mean that youlovemechwarriormorethananyothergame and play it often. When you do you win slightly more than you lose. It really does mean Most Experienced. Not 'Best'

[arrowd]

Is it possible to lose tier level?

[stjobe]

arrowdodger, on 27 December 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

Is it possible to lose tier level?

Yes. Lose enough matches with a bad enough match score and you'll sooner or later move to a lower tier.

[Spr1ggan]

Look people they are never going to change the PSR system. It's a joke that everybody knows doesn't work but Russ says it does so it won't change. I mean i've been in tier 1 from the start but i'm a tier 3 player in terms of skill, i spend all my solo playtime getting rekt and outskilled with good games here and there. Does my Tier 1 bar ever show any signs of going down? Nope.

The upward trend is real and it is beyond stupid.

[Soldier91]

I think it's largely determined by win/loss ratio, then Kill Death ratio across mechs is a factor possibly.
I had a lot of matches where I would do 500 to 1,000 damage, few kills, lots of assists, tons of bonus stuff was pulling really regularly, my tier placement didn't budge at all. Ironically I made way more credits and higher scores/bonus points from light mechs in the old skill rating system rather than the new one but my k/d was pretty terrible since I had a few light mechs I refused to spend the cbills on double heat sinks, was like a whole new mech when I did get enough cbills for it. Some mechs I did really well with for a few days then did so consistently bad with them I just sold the things to free up mechbays.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Going in Pug with a good Team , the Tier is Up...going in a Pug with a Bad Team ,or many Groupfights ,the Tier drive down by Games against Elite 10- 12 Groups (BMMU,Lords,RJF,TACF)

Edited by CSJ Ranger, 29 December 2015 - 03:25 AM.

[Lykaon]

Blue Pheonix, on 22 September 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

Hi all,

How is the Pilot Skill Rating (PSR) and tier level determined?
Is tier 1 the best players and tier 5 the worst?
I noticed this "PSR" after I did a patch today.

I searched these forums and did a Google search to find this answer but all that I really came across is if this info should be public or not.

Thanks!

it is determined by how much the matchmaker hates you at the time the match is built.

[Klaevoc]

Every time I see these posts, it makes me laugh. It brings up all the hilarity inherent in PGI. The main example being how badly they want this game to turn into an E-sport, but they wont tell you anything about how the game works... Does anyone remember a sport they played that had rules, but nobody would tell you what they were? That is exactly what PGI is doing. That's damn near the same thing as raising children away from society so they know of no current sports, then telling them their new job is to be a Running Back or play Short Stop. Then when they ask what the hell those are, you tell them that you aren't gonna release that information to the public...

P.S. I just got hired onto a new job. I went in for training and they told me that I would get paid when the task they set for me is done. I asked what the task was and they told me that only management is privy to that information. I just shrugged and started working, the office was not that big. Three days later I still hadn't been paid, and when I asked why, they told me the task was still undone. I walked out, never to return.


P.S.S. Weird... these two random stories seem to parallel each other... HINT HINT IGP


P.S.S.S. Sometime I want to ask if people are stupid. But then I remember that the reason I am thinking this is because their actions have already given me the answer...

[Jocobin]

They gave the information in the patch notes for the update in which the PSR system was introduced:

https://mwomercs.com...-1430-18aug2015



Any player action in the game that triggers a C-Bill or XP reward (such as kills, assists, or damage done) now applies to this scoring system. Skill rating in MWO is no longer determined solely by your win/loss rate. The Match Score displayed at the End of Round screen is now the primary metric that will determine a player’s skill rating.

We use the action triggers in a weighted formula that employs multipliers to place greater emphasis on certain actions over others. We have also added more action triggers to the tracking system to take into account other types of gameplay aside from just kills and damage done. Actions such as flanking an enemy, using a UAV to spot targets, or using TAG/NARC/BAP to mark targets, are now all part of this formula. These and other actions are weighted in such a way that promotes effective team play.
Essentially, the weighting system and new action triggers allow for a player who may excel in a scouting or support role to be just as well-rated as a player who excels at securing kills and dealing heavy damage.

With the new PSR system:

• If a players' team wins, and the player did well during the match (achieving a high Match Score), the player will rise in skill rating.
  
• If a players' team wins, but the player did not perform well (achieving a low Match Score), the player will not move in terms of skill rating.
  
• If a players' team loses, but the player does exceptionally well (achieving a very high Match Score), the player will go up slightly in skill rating.
  
• If a players' team loses, but the player performed well (achieving a high Match Score), the player will not move in skill rating.
  
• If the players' team loses, and the player performed poorly (achieving a low Match Score), they will drop in skill rating.

There are 5 Skill Tiers in which a pilot can be ranked: Tier 1 being comprised of the best-rated players in the game, and Tier 5 being comprised of pilots who are in dire need of additional training.

[FreakinLazerbeams]

I cant confirm this for sure but your PSR rating may go down for not playing over an extended period of time.

[ReApEr69]

Im in a light mech (Raven 3L). I do 607 points of damage, kill 2 mechs, assist on 3 others. We lose, and my pilot skill doesnt change, i get the =, because we lost the match.

Im in an Atlas. I do 135 points of damage, no kills, 2 assists. We win, and my pilot skill goes up.

WTF ARE YOU GUYS DOING?!?!!?!

How the hell can this make any sense? FIX this pilot skill thing, or get rid of the damned thing, because its absolute crap right now, and there is NO WAY you can defend it., as is.

Wake up.

reaper

Rock God, on 10 November 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

Generally anyway, the game does not reward tactics. Making a missile boat because you enjoy making 600+ dmg is great. Running around capturing or spotting is great. But honestly, claiming you're playing as more of a team-spirit guy because you run around spotting or because you stay back and wait for others to get shot at (aka, be a LRM missile boat).... both can be seen as non team behavior depending on the players around you.

What the game would need for actual tactics is a tactical display, and guess what? That is what the Cockpit Command Console is for. This game lacks a role.
This is evident in the fact Lance Commanders are utterly useless, but even in the fact that Teamspeak is the most efficient tool for a group of players.

There should be a guy doing full-time command, with a console running a few orders (Lance 3, Mech 2 go scout H6, Lance 1, Mech 2 get to A2, fire at will, Lance 2 go push D6, Lance 3, Mech 1 diversion at H2 and pull back after engagement).
Players complying get rewarded, others get penalized.

Only heavies and assaults can take Team Command, which gives them access to combat overlay and appropriate command system.

Problem fixed.

Anyone who thinks LRM boats should be up front, i would laugh at. To say they are not team players, I would also laugh at. To say spotter are not team players, I would also laugh at.

Get real. The suicide charging morons are not team players, what you described, are actually team players. you need to find a team

Jocobin, on 05 January 2016 - 12:23 AM, said:

They gave the information in the patch notes for the update in which the PSR system was introduced:

https://mwomercs.com...-1430-18aug2015



Any player action in the game that triggers a C-Bill or XP reward (such as kills, assists, or damage done) now applies to this scoring system. Skill rating in MWO is no longer determined solely by your win/loss rate. The Match Score displayed at the End of Round screen is now the primary metric that will determine a player’s skill rating.

We use the action triggers in a weighted formula that employs multipliers to place greater emphasis on certain actions over others. We have also added more action triggers to the tracking system to take into account other types of gameplay aside from just kills and damage done. Actions such as flanking an enemy, using a UAV to spot targets, or using TAG/NARC/BAP to mark targets, are now all part of this formula. These and other actions are weighted in such a way that promotes effective team play.
Essentially, the weighting system and new action triggers allow for a player who may excel in a scouting or support role to be just as well-rated as a player who excels at securing kills and dealing heavy damage.

With the new PSR system:

• If a players' team wins, and the player did well during the match (achieving a high Match Score), the player will rise in skill rating.
  
• If a players' team wins, but the player did not perform well (achieving a low Match Score), the player will not move in terms of skill rating.
  
• If a players' team loses, but the player does exceptionally well (achieving a very high Match Score), the player will go up slightly in skill rating.
  
• If a players' team loses, but the player performed well (achieving a high Match Score), the player will not move in skill rating.
  
• If the players' team loses, and the player performed poorly (achieving a low Match Score), they will drop in skill rating.

There are 5 Skill Tiers in which a pilot can be ranked: Tier 1 being comprised of the best-rated players in the game, and Tier 5 being comprised of pilots who are in dire need of additional training.

I would say what you just posted here is a bunch of BS, because its not true.

[FreakinLazerbeams]

I hear ya reaper. I get the same thing with my daka DWFs. I do however get my PSR to go up on a game where my team loses time to time. That's how it is man. In my opinion doesn't really matter what tier your in, you will have players in every tier playing like champions and players not so. U do what u can. Even if your team loses, if u maintain a "=" or a green arrow you did yur job.

My thoughts on the Tier system, its like a training exercise. Every player is responsible for how they play and how they contribute in the game. (Everyone knows this) U screw up, go solo, die in like 30secs into the game, don't grp up, inpatient, make stupid decisions, u will end up with the tier you deserve. You fix your play/mistakes, make better decisions, your PSR will go up. Quite simple. Ive lost a lot of games but I still have my PSR go up or "=".

I started out tier 2 with 1/4 bar completed. Played on and off. Im like a pinky away from tier 1. To me Tier 1 doesn't mean your the best in mwo, it just means you consistenty play well at a level to get to tier 1.

For those who got to tier 2 and want to get to tier 1, its a longggggggggg climb, but ull get there

[DAYLEET]

Lugh, on 12 November 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

It really does mean Most Experienced. Not 'Best'

and in a game like MWO where knowledge is king, and skill is the lowest tier of usefulness, that's a good thing. Thats exactly what we need the tier system to do, separate the new guys with the vets. Now we have vets that want to play bad and are not happy to get rekt, well thats on them, they should not be dropped down in tier under any circumstances.

[MW222]

ReApEr69, on 05 January 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

Im in a light mech (Raven 3L). I do 607 points of damage, kill 2 mechs, assist on 3 others. We lose, and my pilot skill doesnt change, i get the =, because we lost the match.

Im in an Atlas. I do 135 points of damage, no kills, 2 assists. We win, and my pilot skill goes up.

WTF ARE YOU GUYS DOING?!?!!?!

How the hell can this make any sense? FIX this pilot skill thing, or get rid of the damned thing, because its absolute crap right now, and there is NO WAY you can defend it., as is.

Wake up.

reaper




Anyone who thinks LRM boats should be up front, i would laugh at. To say they are not team players, I would also laugh at. To say spotter are not team players, I would also laugh at.

Get real. The suicide charging morons are not team players, what you described, are actually team players. you need to find a team




I would say what you just posted here is a bunch of BS, because its not true.

ReApEr69 Well said.

Beware, Beware, Walk With Care

Careful what You Do

Or Mumbo Jumbo's Gonna Hoodoo You,

Mumbo Jumbo Is Gonna Hoodoo You,

Boomlay, Boomlay, Boomlay, Boom!

Makes more sense then the Tier system.

[IllusionRay]

I just wonder why they call it "Pilot Rating" when it have nothing to do with how good or bad you play, lost a game with 500+ damage 2 kill and lost rating... later on i win a game that i dint have the time to do anything stuff was dropping too fast i did like 100 damage no kill no UAV or other support point and i gained rating...

its only a question of win/lose, it dont matter how well you aim, spot, flank, support or cap... your team performance will set your rating not yours.

this system is totally off the track it have nothing to do with your skill.

[Roadkill]

As I recall, Paul said that it would take ~2500 missions to grind your way from Tier 5 to the top of Tier 1. So yeah, 10 games is only a couple of pixels. If you're checking it after very match, you're far too impatient. PSR is a long-term thing, not a "this week" thing.

BTW, KDR and damage are irrelevant. Your match score is what matters.

match scr   win     loss
  0 - 100   equal   max -
100 - 250   min +   med -
250 - 400   med +   equal
400+        max +   min +

PGI hasn't said how much "max +" or "min -" actually is, so they're just relative values. But basically, if your team wins your PSR cannot go down. If your team loses and you do exceptionally well, your PSR might go up a little bit. And I do mean really, really well. You probably need 500 damage, a couple of kills, lots of assists, and a wide variety of other things like kill most damage done, solo kill, UAV spotting assists, etc. Or 800+ damage... that'll do it all by itself.