339 replies to this topic

[EX S]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 23 September 2015 - 10:03 PM, said:

*Snipped screenshot*
Does not mean its a good mech.

I remember that match. I think I was peeking outside your base when you came out from the corner of the hill and shot me

I've also pulled some good numbers in this thing:


I've finished grinding my Knights to double basics, and I think that's as far as I'll go unless something crazy happens to them (like actually being balanced). I think if there's anything good about being Tier 5, it's that it let me grind them pretty easily. Bad matches happened, but they were far less common than good matches or even great matches like the above. It was a great deal easier than the Shadow Cat, which was absolutely excruciating.

I really liked the Black Knight's appearance, and the idea of a mobile heavy laser vomit platform that isn't clan really appealed to me. Whenever I tried hard enough that the BK worked for me, it was really fun despite what many say about laser vom as a playstyle. I just feel sad that I'm gimped right out the gate for playing a mech that I think is cool, but PGI feels is adequate sitting at the bottom of the barrel. That isn't just limited to the Black Knight.

I wouldn't even mind the bad hardpoint locations if it had some good structure and heat gen quirks to compensate. If it is going to be stuck as a brawler (which is my favorite playstyle), it should at least be a viable alternative to other laser brawler mechs. Though I can't help but admit that I'm pretty worried about how the hitbox changes will be handled. I dropped a lot of credits on those XL engines, and it'll be a crying shame if my builds are rendered useless because PGI decides the STs should be exaggerated instead of being modestly stretched

[Nightshade24]

MischiefSC, on 23 September 2015 - 09:56 PM, said:

CW is a hugely competitive environment that people who are not competitive go into, get stomped, and then get upset over. That there are bad players who play CW doesn't somehow make bad mechs a good thing.

If someone plays CW and isn't going in with a competitive mindset they're literally sandbagging their faction. Fortunately that doesn't really matter right now but CW is, without question, a 'competitive' environment. There is no MM to try to keep the tryhards from playing against the scrubs.

It's not really a competitive environment, it is as much as normal cue. It seems like it because the way how they set up CW only 12 man groups can work pretty well or large groups that can carry, I can name dozens of units that participate and win regularly in CW that are not meta or competitive. (well mostly are semi competitive which are the same people who would not care if there guys bring a mist lynx or a 12 er medium laser nova or a kingcrab with lrm mixed ac 20s as long as that person participates to actually be serious).

Calling CW a competitive environment is the same as saying TF2's "find me a [random] server/ game" is a competitive environment. Should also note that CW isn't intended as a comp environment- if anything it was set for nearly the complete opposite.

[Escef]

MischiefSC, on 23 September 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

AS7 is T3, at best.

WHICH IS NOT BAD!

MischiefSC, on 23 September 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

You're trying to create a binary.

I am? Really?

MischiefSC, on 23 September 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

It is simple. The BK is bad and PGI has released only bad performing IS mechs for 2 years.

Wait, no, that was you.

MischiefSC, on 23 September 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

I don't care about LRM boats.

Who the hell are you responding to with this? I sure as hell didn't mention LRM boats. I hope you are responding to someone else, because if you aren't you're dragging an utter f***ing non-sequitur into this.

MischiefSC, on 23 September 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

This never was complex but your efforts to reducto ad absurdum this is trying to make it so.

Reductio ad absurdum? You are the guy that said there have been no good inner Sphere mechs in 2 years. The mother f***ing King Crab is less than a year old!

Edited by Escef, 24 September 2015 - 12:05 AM.

[GeneralArmchair]

The king crab is inferior to both the Dire Wolf and the Stalker.

[Escef]

GeneralArmchair, on 23 September 2015 - 11:57 PM, said:

The king crab is inferior to both the Dire Wolf and the Stalker.

When was the last time you took 50 points of PPFLD from a Stalker? When was the last time you saw a Dire go over 54 kph? King Crab is one of the few assaults that can go toe-to-toe with a Dire and walk away looking for more victims.

[GeneralArmchair]

Its hitboxes and hardpoint placement are inferior to those on the Dire Wolf and Stalker.

In CW, it isn't good enough to devote 100 tons of your drop deck to a singular mech. The Stalker is much better value for an IS dropdeck.

[Escef]

GeneralArmchair, on 24 September 2015 - 12:05 AM, said:

Its hitboxes and hardpoint placement are inferior to those on the Dire Wolf and Stalker.

Pretty much NOTHING has better hitboxes than the Stalker, that's not a useful argument. The Dire's hitboxes are no better or worse than a KGC's. As for the hardpoint placement, the KGC's energy points are placed better than the Dire's and comparably to the Stalker's. The KGC's ballistic points are comparable to the arm ballistics on the Dire. The Dire's torso ballistics are slightly higher, sometimes that makes a difference, but not often enough to be a consistent factor.

GeneralArmchair, on 24 September 2015 - 12:05 AM, said:

In CW, it isn't good enough to devote 100 tons of your drop deck to a singular mech. The Stalker is much better value for an IS dropdeck.

Maybe you should scroll up a little and watch Crab Warfare?

[MischiefSC]

Nightshade24, on 23 September 2015 - 11:51 PM, said:

It's not really a competitive environment, it is as much as normal cue. It seems like it because the way how they set up CW only 12 man groups can work pretty well or large groups that can carry, I can name dozens of units that participate and win regularly in CW that are not meta or competitive. (well mostly are semi competitive which are the same people who would not care if there guys bring a mist lynx or a 12 er medium laser nova or a kingcrab with lrm mixed ac 20s as long as that person participates to actually be serious).

Calling CW a competitive environment is the same as saying TF2's "find me a [random] server/ game" is a competitive environment. Should also note that CW isn't intended as a comp environment- if anything it was set for nearly the complete opposite.

It is competitive in the context of no MM and there is at least the impression of winning/losing being more relevant than just that match. It is designed to magnify the benefits of teamwork and organized play. It is specific competitions between factions and teams above and beyond the derping that goes on in pug/group queue. It's as much of 'competitive play' as exists within MW:O outside of player run tournaments.

Escef, on 23 September 2015 - 11:52 PM, said:

WHICH IS NOT BAD!



I am? Really?



Wait, no, that was you.



Who the hell are you responding to with this? I sure as hell didn't mention LRM boats. I hope you are responding to someone else, because if you aren't you dragging an utter f***ing non-sequitur into this.



Reductio ad absurdum? You are the guy that said there have been no good inner Sphere mechs in 2 years. The mother f***ing King Crab is less than a year old!

Love my King Crab. He's T3.

Again, you're mixing your opinion of the worth of something with the actual worth of it. Hence the reference to LRMs.

That you don't care that all the mechs released for the IS for the last 2 years are terribad to mediocre isn't relevant. There are two tiers of performance above and beyond anything available in the last 2 years of mechs for the IS. That is the reference to LRMs or hardpoint types you're trying to misunderstand. I'm trying to find an analogy that's going to make sense to you because the direct facts don't seem to be working. We'll start again with the simple, direct facts:

There are 5 tiers of 'competitiveness' for mechs. How viable and effective they are. Tiers 5 through Tier 1. With me?

If you are in a Tier 3 (or worse) mech you can not effectively compete against a reasonably comparably skilled player in a T2, not to mention a T1. If you bring a T3 mech to a competitive match, be that just CW or a tournament or the like, you are actively and functionally nerfing your teams odds of success. If you care about not sandbagging your team, if you care about winning, obviously you don't want to do that. Right?

So if there are no mechs for the IS released for 2 years that fit even into T2 not to mention T1 (there really are not any IS T1 mechs) then for 2 years there have been no mechs suitable for that use. In the exact same way that if you want to play a missileboat mech and there are absolutely no mechs released for 2 years suitable for that purpose you would legitimately be frustrated people are legitimately frustrated that no mechs suitable for any really competitive use, anything more than derping in the pug queue or messing around with friends, has been released for the IS.

I don't know how else to explain that. You saying you find T3 mechs fine is irrelevant. I play tons of T3 mechs for fun in pug queue. If, however, I want to build a deck for CW with an expectation of winning or I want to play with a unit in a competitive event and I bring a T3 mech I am, without question, an ******* who is trying to shaft his team. So Nothing released for the IS in 2 years is going to be on that list save sometimes a FS9.

Does that make sense? Competitive play, people wanting to play something that is not inherently inferior to other choices, isn't some conspiracy to ruin everyone elses fun. It's caring if you win/lose and wanting to have fun playing something that is not inherently, demonstratively inferior to other options.

Nothing has been added to that pool of choices on the IS side for 2 years. In fact PGI has actively and intentionally gimped new mechs to make them inherently inferior to mechs that came before and have been released currently for Clans.

Not sure how else to put this. Your opinion of caring about winning/losing or not wanting to play a gimped mech compared to others isn't relevant here. Nobody is arguing about your opinion. They are arguing about the established reality of the different performance caliber of the mechs released into the game.

The crab warfare video was a joke done by a top tier competitive team for giggles. They demolished some pug scrubs and they did it in 12 Crabs to prove the point that they could have done so in 12 Quickdraws or 12 Summoners for that matter. The point wasn't that the King Crab was superior, it was those guys playing around and showing off for giggles.

[Escef]

MischiefSC, on 24 September 2015 - 12:15 AM, said:

Again, you're mixing your opinion of the worth of something with the actual worth of it. Hence the reference to LRMs.

WTF is that even supposed to mean? I never mentioned LRMs, why the...!?

Y'know what? F*** it, nevermind. You aren't worth any more of my time. Hell, you aren't even worth the time I spent talking to ya'.

[Deathlike]

For me, the Black Knight will now be known as... the Butter Knave (although Burger King was a cool name). It melts like butter, and PGI stole your money from it's poor design (and poor quirkage).

By comparison, the Grasshopper seemed like a better deal, and that's a sad commentary.

[Nightshade24]

Deathlike, on 24 September 2015 - 12:32 AM, said:

For me, the Black Knight will now be known as... the Butter Knave (although Burger King was a cool name). It melts like butter, and PGI stole your money from it's poor design (and poor quirkage).

By comparison, the Grasshopper seemed like a better deal, and that's a sad commentary.

you mean It was a steal from PGI? Because I've gotten such a glorious mech for the cheap price of 20 dollars isolated.

[Deathlike]

Nightshade24, on 24 September 2015 - 12:35 AM, said:

you mean It was a steal from PGI? Because I've gotten such a glorious mech for the cheap price of 20 dollars isolated.

It's only "$20" if you already bought the other components of the pack (that means, spending $60 at least).

Even Ala Carte, it would cost $35 IIRC.

So, I wouldn't call it the way you're stating it.

[MischiefSC]

Escef, on 24 September 2015 - 12:19 AM, said:

WTF is that even supposed to mean? I never mentioned LRMs, why the...!?

Y'know what? F*** it, nevermind. You aren't worth any more of my time. Hell, you aren't even worth the time I spent talking to ya'.

Okay. You don't get it. That's cool. You don't need to.

[Nightshade24]

GeneralArmchair, on 23 September 2015 - 11:57 PM, said:

The king crab is inferior to both the Dire Wolf and the Stalker.

doesn't the king crab able to out do most direwolf builds?

Rather it be 2 x ER PPC + 2 x Gauss rifle
3 x Large pulse laser/ ER large laser + 2 gauss rifle (should mention this will always beat a direwolf 450 meters away due to ghost heat not present on those 3 larger laser combo's. If you want to compare shorter range damage potentual then I think you can easily spam SRM's to make up for that on the direwolf... not that it matters)
And in terms of 6 x u/ac 2 boating + a large laser/ other weapon of some kind the kingcrab beats it here as well... ish?

How many stalker builds can run duel gauss duel PPC btw?

Deathlike, on 24 September 2015 - 12:45 AM, said:

It's only "$20" if you already bought the other components of the pack (that means, spending $60 at least).

Even Ala Carte, it would cost $35 IIRC.

So, I wouldn't call it the way you're stating it.

but I bought all 4 mechs of resistance 2 and wanted all 4 of them. 4 x 20 = 80 dollars.

I get 4 differnet mechs with that 80 dollars, thus the value split evenly would be 80/4 = 20 dollars USD.
Want to go fancy? I guess we can say the black knight is 3 dollars if we count faction packs, cockpit items, mechbays, etc...

so 3 dollars for the black knight? awesome.

[KharnZor]

Ultimatum X, on 23 September 2015 - 10:55 PM, said:

Deny it? No. (you can shield shots though if you know where they are coming from)

It's just apparently irrelevant. Since blasting with massive hitscan alphas trumps it completely right now.


Let's take it back a bit, here are the earlier comments in this side posting:


[/u]






Do you actually want to pretend that the entire current meta of dominant clan lasers doesn't exist?

Do you want to pretend that almost every competitive match is not dominated by lasers, especially clan lasers?



If IS PPFLD actually trumped clan lasers and DOT delivery then we'd see the entire game dominated by it.

Not the exact opposite of that.

Its pretty funny you think you can talk down to me but tell me where i said anything about competitive matches?
I pug. Its what i see.
Sure Laser vomit is clearly the dominant meta at comp level and its surely present when pugging however in my experience its easier for me to roll that damage and return fire with my ppfld and its often the case that i come out on top, meaning the other mech usually dies before i've sustained heavy damage.
If i was playing competitively I'd most likely have to submit to the meta in one way or another but seeing as how i only pug solo these days its what i see, and i dont tend to drop against scrubs either.

[Widowmaker1981]

MischiefSC, on 23 September 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

That only works if you're playing bads. The Mauler plays like a Dire Wolf with less armor, less DPS and a tiny, tiny increase in mobility.

I've never had an issue with a Mauler since it's been out. In fact I hunt them in any banshee build I play, or Battlemaster.

YMMV. Try to take one into any competitive environment like CW or even group queue. It'll go down crazy fast.

I bring Maulers in T1 group queue land and generally do just fine, i love it. 4xUAC5 or go home though, havent found any other builds that click. The only issue i have is its not quite fast enough, because BMMU play mobile and slow mechs are hard to use (basically none of us ever run Dires due to that)

Its not quite as good as the Banshee-3M, because IS large pulse are ridiculously OP, but it is imo the best ballistic mech IS has. KGCs weapons are in different timezones, bit of an issue for me.

[CDLord HHGD]

I will never subscribe to the notion that a mech, ANY mech, is bad because it doesn't hold up to the meta that you've allowed yourselves to be enslaved by. I don't care what the current meta is either, this is always the case.

I get it. You NEED to be competitive. You NEED to be T1 or T2. That's fine. But don't tell me a mech is bad because you can't get it to work for you. Don't tell me you know the secrets of the universe and I am just a scrub because you're a higher tier than I am.

And in the end, I don't listen to your holier-than-thou proclamations, I buy mechs, I play mech, and I enjoy what I do. No, you are doing the game and community a disservice by coming in here and telling people not to buy mechs because you think they are bad because the comp crowd don't know how to play it, because they are not the pinnacle of meta. You are detracting new players and indoctrinating them into a no-win scenario. Sure, they can save up or pony and buy a Timber Wolf and outfit it to the current meta. But their skill level won't be as good, especially since the meta does require some skill to play, be it heat management, pinpoint targeting, for gauss macro. So despite them owning what you recommend to be the pinnacle of all that is meta, they will STILL get their butts kicked time and again and they will think to themselves, "Damn, I bought the best of the best and I still lose, this game sucks, I quit."

Sorry, but in the end, your need to be meta will kill this game. As it is I bet T1 and T2 are a fraction of the population of the player base and CW is a veritable ghost town where only the biggest teams dare to venture because it's a meta-fest.

[GeneralArmchair]

@nighshade
The KGC outdo most DWF builds? Hahahahaha oh wow. Where do you get this stuff?


Let's look at the facts:
Due to the fact that clan weapons are so much lighter than IS weapons, the DWF will always have more firepower than the KGC.

The DWF has superior hit boxes for spreading damage than the KGC and it's enormous CT.

The KGC is plagued by having most of its firepower placed in oversized easy to shoot claws that drag on the ground. The DWF hardpoints are much higher and positioned closer to the cockpit.


The KGC has to choose between the IS standard or IS XL engines, so it will either always be slower than the DWF or significantly more fragile.


The DWF simply wins in every metric. The fact that you think the KGC outdoes the DWF couple with the nonsense you've been spouting like the Dragon being a monstrously powerful mech while objectively superior mechs like the EBJ are downtrodden and reliant on the pilot skill for success demonstrates that you have an acute disconnect with reality.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

GeneralArmchair, on 23 September 2015 - 11:57 PM, said:

The king crab is inferior to both the Dire Wolf and the Stalker.

I use a King Crab regularly and I can tell you with certainty in the right hands it is just as good as a Dire or Stalker, its just a different play style. It is actually one of my favorite rides, and this is coming from a clan player.

[GeneralArmchair]

I've heard people say the same sort of thing about the Locust.